Post a reply

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Wildey

i think the Point judd is missing here is if Swearing,Speaking your mind would become the Norm where is the shock value in that ?

Alex Higgins got Banned,Fined etc etc etc it wasent allowed he just did those things.

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby SnookerFan

The BBC write some weird articles sometimes, don't they?

Firstly, I take this with a pinch of salt. Seeing as the press always want to make out Judd is a charsimatic bad-boy, despite the fact that his real personality is a shy kid who is close to his family. Didn't Judd already claim something that had been published a year or so ago had twisted his words to make him sound such? I forget exactly what now.

Secondly, am I the only one who thinks it's odd that the BBC, who are about to televise the supposed second biggest tournament of the year, are penning the interview in such a way that it suggests the World Number 1 is going; "Snooker is a bit rubbish, aint it?"

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Wildey

They are a bit dim to say the least

yes the Article was twisted some ways however he must have said
Judd wrote: "If you hit the table after missing a ball, you get fined. If you swear, you get fined. You can't even tweet what you're thinking without getting fined. Players can't show their personality and therefore fans can't relate to them.

"I don't feel people are that interested in snooker any more and the only thing that will get snooker back into the limelight is more controversy."


as if in years gone by the controversy was contrived or arranged.

Believe me the snooker authorities in the 80s did not want a official to get head butted.

by it Nature Controversy is something that shouldn't be done so by trying to arrange controversy its not controversial.

more often than not in any walk of life Controversy = consequences

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Casey

What should they dress in? Dart's players have a more relaxed dress code and look at the state of most of them.

The swearing? Well that's the same in any sport, tennis, golf, rugby - you will get a warning.

He is correct about a lot of stuff though, I think some of the players need to be more relaxed and the number 1 player in the World taking home £400k is minimall in comparison to other sports.

I do think though that snooker in the Uk is on the up again (slightly) more tickets are being sold and it's been talked about more in the media. I think by the end of this season we will have a better picture of what state snooker is in.

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby SnookerFan

Wild WC wrote:They are a bit dim to say the least

yes the Article was twisted some ways however he must have said
Judd wrote: "If you hit the table after missing a ball, you get fined. If you swear, you get fined. You can't even tweet what you're thinking without getting fined. Players can't show their personality and therefore fans can't relate to them.

"I don't feel people are that interested in snooker any more and the only thing that will get snooker back into the limelight is more controversy."


as if in years gone by the controversy was contrived or arranged.

Believe me the snooker authorities in the 80s did not want a official to get head butted.

by it Nature Controversy is something that shouldn't be done so by trying to arrange controversy its not controversial.

more often than not in any walk of life Controversy = consequences



I agree. Alex Higgins wasn't doing that stuff to get headlines, that was his personality. Yes when he did it, it got publicity and thus attention for the sport. But that was just him being him. Some hated him for it, many loved him for it. But it wasn't set up.

As you say, the last thing this sport needs is to try to engineer controversy. Controversy stops being controversial if it happens every week. The sport may need characters, but you're not a character if you are copying Alex Higgins. You are just an imitator.

There's more to being a character than headbutting officials and snake hissing in plant pots.

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Wildey

Casey wrote:
He is correct about a lot of stuff though, I think some of the players need to be more relaxed and the number 1 player in the World taking home £400k is minimall in comparison to other sports.

thats ultimately why Barry Hearn was brought in but it seems to me like players want to be payed for doing the bare minimum.

More Money the players earn Better it is for the sport but Money dont grow on trees.

Take the German Masters a very well supported Event by the Public but sponsorship not forth coming with hard cash so what can the WSA Do about it ?

answer Nothing just hope it grows

China Open was the only chinese event in 2005 with top prize of £30,000 now Judd won a Chinese event worth £125,000. it takes time .

PDC Darts took 20 years after the split to get up to what snooker was in 1990 these things don't happen overnight.

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby SnookerFan

Casey wrote:What should they dress in? Dart's players have a more relaxed dress code and look at the state of most of them.The swearing? Well that's the same in any sport, tennis, golf, rugby - you will get a warning.

He is correct about a lot of stuff though, I think some of the players need to be more relaxed and the number 1 player in the World taking home £400k is minimall in comparison to other sports.

I do think though that snooker in the Uk is on the up again (slightly) more tickets are being sold and it's been talked about more in the media. I think by the end of this season we will have a better picture of what state snooker is in.


I don't really get why they dress in a bow-tie and waistcoat, particularly. It's been suggested numerous times if players were allowed to chose their own clothes, it'd help people identify with them more. I'd be all for that.

What a player wears was always a bit of a non-issue for me. They can play dressed in Bermuda Shorts as far as I care. I watch to see quality snooker, not for fashion tips. If changing a players dress brings in more fans, I'd say go for it. Worth a try.

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Smart

to me thats a crap interview. <ok>

How is saying he wishes he did something else rather than become a snooker player gonna promote or do any good whatsoever for snooker.......answer: it wont. So its a stupid moronic thing to say.

How about if he tried his luck at football or tennis or anything else and did not make it, like most people dont, and then he had to do a "normal" job for say £30K/year.

And then he mentions the money in snooker is crap compared to those other sports, ummmm sorry I don't like comments criticising prize money when their are people who wont earn anywhere near what he is slagging off.....and earning for playing a nice kinda sport and travelling all over (many peoples dream).

He wants people to hate him or bash him - he did not need the interview for that to happen, but fuel just got added to the fire. :wave:

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Witz78

Sounds like hes trying to manufacture a bad boy image by being the rebel the fans in the street support as they see him as an anti-authority figure.

Sorry but the closest Judds going to get to being a badboy is if he says something on Twitter or happens to blast a ball off the table.

If snookers looking for a bad boy, then look no further than Mark Allen, Did anyone read his interview on the Beeb website? Im been divided on him but think that interview has won me round again, Mon Allen !!!!

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Smart

Witz78 wrote:Sounds like hes trying to manufacture a bad boy image by being the rebel the fans in the street support as they see him as an anti-authority figure.

Sorry but the closest Judds going to get to being a badboy is if he says something on Twitter or happens to blast a ball off the table.

If snookers looking for a bad boy, then look no further than Mark Allen, Did anyone read his interview on the Beeb website? Im been divided on him but think that interview has won me round again, Mon Allen !!!!


Allen says he is itching to say something, depends what the something is to be honest.....he obviously wants to be the rebel in the pack. I dont care either way, publicity is good but not when it is out and out contrived rubbish. <ok>

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Skullman

Honestly don't care about any bad boy image. Doubt people were interested in Trump for his personality. Play well and people will notice you.

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Casey

At the end of it all, Judd is a great asset for the game.
He plays and looks the part.

As for the dress code, maybe snooker players could adopt the style shown in the Premier League?

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Roland

Judd will never be a bad boy, but he will rub people up the wrong way if he comes across too arrogant and saying pretty much that if he had his time again he wouldn't choose snooker is silly talk and is probably taken out of context.

Allen can do the bad boy thing and it's no problem him speaking his mind. However I suspect many people will disagree with him on some of the more controversial things he says and take offence that he thinks he's speaking for the players. I'm sure that will become apparent with whatever controversial things he comes out with in the future.

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby PLtheRef

Casey wrote:At the end of it all, Judd is a great asset for the game.
He plays and looks the part.

As for the dress code, maybe snooker players could adopt the style shown in the Premier League?


That was all discussed and proposed before and the players preference was to return to the bow tie

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Wildey

Alex0paul wrote:The biggest shock in that article was Ali Carter being described as an old fashioned grinder

im not Ali carter's biggest fan i find him a annoying moaner but the journo doesn't know hes born if he thinks Ali is a old fashioned grinder <laugh>

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:loved your tweet to Judd earlier there haha

seems strange wanting to jazz things up and not want to wear a bow tie and waist coat ...he had that opportunity and didn't take it at the pink ptc

it does seem a bit silly at the moment UK Championship Round the Corner everyone Talking bullocks sounds to me like its the Work of Barry Hearn contriving publicity.

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Wildey

Both Judd and Mark Allen there at the Request of World Snooker and ends up Slagging them Off not only that the World Snooker Tweeting Account Tweeting what they been saying <laugh>

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Sickpotter

SnookerFan wrote:
Wild WC wrote:They are a bit dim to say the least

yes the Article was twisted some ways however he must have said
Judd wrote: "If you hit the table after missing a ball, you get fined. If you swear, you get fined. You can't even tweet what you're thinking without getting fined. Players can't show their personality and therefore fans can't relate to them.

"I don't feel people are that interested in snooker any more and the only thing that will get snooker back into the limelight is more controversy."


as if in years gone by the controversy was contrived or arranged.

Believe me the snooker authorities in the 80s did not want a official to get head butted.

by it Nature Controversy is something that shouldn't be done so by trying to arrange controversy its not controversial.

more often than not in any walk of life Controversy = consequences



I agree. Alex Higgins wasn't doing that stuff to get headlines, that was his personality. Yes when he did it, it got publicity and thus attention for the sport. But that was just him being him. Some hated him for it, many loved him for it. But it wasn't set up.

As you say, the last thing this sport needs is to try to engineer controversy. Controversy stops being controversial if it happens every week. The sport may need characters, but you're not a character if you are copying Alex Higgins. You are just an imitator.

There's more to being a character than headbutting officials and snake hissing in plant pots.


IMO this kind of comment could only come from a person from the "reality TV" generation. :roll:

Judd really taking a cheap shot at the sport and disrespecting his own ability at the same time. What on earth makes him think he could've been a professional at any other sport? Did he have boatloads of physical talent indicative of opportunity elsewhere?

I find it incredibly amusing that some players and fans keep wanting to compare the money in snooker to that in other sports.

Snooker has very little in the way of sponsorship opportunities and money generation compared to other sports and it's not because the game isn't entertaining.

Let's start with something simple like venue revenue.

Soccer, football, baseball, basketball, golf, etc. etc. are all played at venues that hold many times more people than what can be held in a snooker venue. The revenue from the ticket sales of a snooker venue seating 5000 (on the very high side) is nothing compared to what's generated when you've got 50000 seats for sale.

This is by necessity, you couldn't throw a few tables in a stadium and host an event, 98% of the seats wouldn't be able to see anything.

Now let's look at sponsors....

Sponsor wise typically one looks to the sport equipment manufacturers, clothing, cars, jewellery, etc.....really any area that can be associated to the sport.

How many big name cue/table makers are there and what kind of money do those companies generate?

Golf, football, soccer, tennis, etc. all have huge sports companies with a large variety of products applicable to the sport. These companies make billions which translates to being willing to provide more sponsorship money.

For a clothing sponsor example let's look at it as it relates to golf. They have golf shoes, shirts, jackets, etc. many lines related to weather conditions.

Obviously snooker doesn't have weather conditions requiring special clothing design which is another sponsorship opportunity other sports have that snooker doesn't. Some kind of clothing sponsor for snooker might be possible but the way players today want to dress you'd have to look for a t-shirt manufacturer. ;-)

Certain sports are associated with class/money which brings in jewellers, high end car makers, etc. At one point snooker somewhat fell into that category with players dressing in nice clothes, bow tie, etc. Now the snooker players don't want to dress up and in fact want it as casual as possible. Bye, bye to the sponsors looking to associate themselves with a classy sport.

Equipment

Even the basic equipment used by most sports far exceeds what's needed for snooker. If one wants to go for a game of snooker/pool all the required equipment is available at the hall, no need to buy it yourself. You can't go to a golf course and find a set of clubs free to use for all, the dress code clothes free of cost, the balls, tees,shoes, etc. etc. You've got to have money to start playing most pro sports but not snooker. If a sponsor knows the players/fans have spent/invested money to take up the sport they're a desirable target audience and any event they're attending is a good opportunity to showcase their product.

Let's look at golf equipment...

You've got golf balls, 100's of kinds, several major manufacturers with profits in the millions if not billions wanting to showcase their stuff. How many snooker ball makers are there and what are their profits like?....not even close.

Gadgets to use on the course. Golf has range finders (many designed by manufacturers who aren't only catering to golfers but also to other sports like huntiing), ball retrievers, club covers, score trackers, GPS systems, etc. What does snooker have? Gloves? Chalk?

Clubs....many many varieties and makers. All expensive, all good for a limited time only due to wear. Even the clubs themselves can be broken down into 3 parts, grips, shaft and head with at least the grip aspect requiring yearly re-gripping at an average of $10 per club. Snooker cues by contrast have few manufacturers, vast majority quite cheap and are usable for a lifetime if one takes care of it. Only tip replacement is required and that's a minute cost. Many pro snooker players will go their whole career using only a few cues. Golf pros change their clubs (or at least parts of them) every 10-20 rounds or so at a cost upwards of $1000 a pop. Golf technology is constantly improving providing another revenue generator for manufacturers, having the newest model of irons/driver/ball is a status symbol for many players regardless of skill level. Do we have yearly changes in technology cue wise? No, nothing new cue wise to improve on existing technology (beyond perhaps tip type), likely never will be.

The end result is that there will never be the same amount of money available to snooker that other professional sports have. Snooker can make changes to draw some of the potential sponsors but the prime money generators (venue and equipment maker sponsorship) are never going to be comperable.

Yeah we'd all love to make millions a year at our chosen vocation but snooker itself will always have limited/less sponsorship opportunities than other professional sports. The game, the equipment, it's players and it's venues makes it so.

You wouldn't expect to find the same money in professional skeet shooting as you would in professional golf but the pro skeet shooters and fans of the sport don't delude themselves into thinking they ever could. Why do snooker fans and some pros do it?

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Witz78

Some good points you make in that detailed post Sickpotter but you seem to adopt a negative attitude saying snooker cannot compete with these other sports.

but explain this if you can

Up to the mid to late 90s the World Snooker Champion winners prize was at the same level as the winner of Wimbledon in tennis or the British Open in Golf.

In the 15 years since then these fellow single player sports tennis and golf have seen prize money rocket and their popularity. The prize money ratio between these mentioned events winners and snooker world champion now is about 5 times greater.

What went wrong for snooker?

Why didnt it continue to expand and evolve at a similar rate?

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby Sickpotter

Quick answer is that with the loss of tobacco sponsorship (a billion dollar industry), snooker has no comperable sponsor to fill the gap.

Other sports by contrast have several billion dollar industries stepping up to the plate or more importantly never leaving in the first place. Physical sports tended to shy away from relying on tobacco as a sponsor so they didn't have to look for a new cash cow, they already had a herd to pick and choose from.

How can snooker possibly keep progressing at the same pace as the other sports when the sport inherently lacks marketable/profitable items available to the others?

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby SnookerFan

Wild WC wrote:
Alex0paul wrote:The biggest shock in that article was Ali Carter being described as an old fashioned grinder

im not Ali carter's biggest fan i find him a annoying moaner but the journo doesn't know hes born if he thinks Ali is a old fashioned grinder <laugh>


There's probably still a bit of bad blood from The Crucible there. rofl

Besides, the journalist probably knows nothing about snooker. He just remembers Ronnie mentioning that stupid break away tour thing a few months back, and remembers Ali Carter's name coming up. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy doing the interview has never watched Ali Carter play.

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby simplysnooker

Was disappointed to read that interview, although I've never really warmed to Judd I respect him on the table but off it he isn't saying the right things to get him liked here.

Ali Carter a grinder? What is that bloke on? Numpty

Re: Interesting Trump Interview.

Postby SnookerFan

Jewell wrote:I feel abit deflated with snooker at the moment so it wasn't nice reading that from the so-called current top dog of snooker.

Clearly, Trump has delusions of grandeur, he probably reckons in his mind that he should be on the same level as Tiger Woods and Roger Federer, but as a 'mere' snooker player, he knows he never will be.


Let's hope he doesn't start thinking he's the dog's bullocks now he's World Number 1.

Since really exploding through the China Open last year, Judd's has improved in confidence and form. He's deservedly the best player in the world. But if a player starts thinking that means they are automatically unbeatable, they eventually get found out.

Judd's the best player in the world at the moment. Hopefully he doesn't listen to the people who are lining up to kiss his bottom, and just keeps doing his thing.