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Re: ROS timeout

Postby Sickpotter

On the whole I'd say no, not good that the WC is absent for the season but IMO Ronnie's already brought in as many fans as he's likely to do, he's been around a long time.

I guess the question is....is Ronnie still attracting new fans to the sport or has it tailed off?

Perhaps this is an effort on Ronnie's part to try to prove the game needs him and Hearn's more than willing to let him try to prove it. Disappointment for one or the other assured I guess.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Witz78

Sonny wrote:Of course it's not good but at the end of the day it's Ronnie's fault for not signing the contract. I wonder what part of it he disagrees with. He may think other players agree with him but they don't agree enough to boycot signing the contract do they? I don't know why he doesn't just sign it and be done with it then play in the UK and Worlds if that's all he wants to play in.


is there still time for him to sign it or has he missed the boat as far as this season goes now :shrug:

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Roland

He's still got time because the season hasn't started for him yet. It's some sort of protest clearly, no doubt expecting World Snooker to go grovelling and give him what he wants. The expression is prima donna. Fantastic snooker player, absolute genius. Don't have time for the prima donna in him though. Just get on with it, sign the contract and choose your events. What's the problem? He won't get fined if he doesn't enter events, only if he enters and withdraws. That's my understanding anyway.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:
Sonny wrote:Of course it's not good but at the end of the day it's Ronnie's fault for not signing the contract. I wonder what part of it he disagrees with. He may think other players agree with him but they don't agree enough to boycot signing the contract do they? I don't know why he doesn't just sign it and be done with it then play in the UK and Worlds if that's all he wants to play in.


is there still time for him to sign it or has he missed the boat as far as this season goes now :shrug:

My understanding is he could sign the contract in March and defend his WC.

but suerly that cant be right.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Skullman

Basically if he signed the contract he could pick and chose anyway. So there must be something else in the contract he doesn't agree with or he's just being an attention hussy.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Wildey

Skullman wrote:Basically if he signed the contract he could pick and chose anyway. So there must be something else in the contract he doesn't agree with or he's just being an attention hussy.

ive already told you why he wont sign see above

Wild WC wrote:Basicly he wants More freedome to play Lucrative Money spinning exhos possibly even Televised or streamed that wont happen without WPBSA Sanctions if he signs the Contract.

im with Sickpotter if he dont sign now then hes out until May next year and free to play rubbish for cash if that what he wants.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby kenneth79

Skullman wrote:Basically if he signed the contract he could pick and chose anyway. So there must be something else in the contract he doesn't agree with or he's just being an attention lovely lady.


Basically it boils down to money. He wont be able to play televised exos clashing with WS tourneys if he signs I think

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Casey

Judging by Hearn's comments, he can sign the contract at any time and enter tournaments -

"Ronnie is at liberty to enter our events and play on the circuit at any time, once he agrees to abide by the rules of the players' contract."

Re: ROS timeout

Postby kenneth79

This is clearly a battle of wills/egos between Hearn and ROS. Of one thing Im sure: Hearn wont back down. Lets see if Ronnie comes crawling back.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby snooky147

So, has anyone got a look at a players contract to see what the trouble is in it?. I would go and have a look at Graeme's but I am incapacitated atm and he cant make it down here. I bet too it has a non disclosure clause that would prevent it being published anyway.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby hitman_ronnie1

perhaps ronnie wants shot clock snooker introduced full time with the recent return to form of peter ebdon. :chuckle:

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Witz78

snooky147 wrote:So, has anyone got a look at a players contract to see what the trouble is in it?. I would go and have a look at Graeme's but I am incapacitated atm and he cant make it down here. I bet too it has a non disclosure clause that would prevent it being published anyway.


cant you just ring the man himself ?? :evilgrin:

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Andre147

Sonny wrote:He's still got time because the season hasn't started for him yet. It's some sort of protest clearly, no doubt expecting World Snooker to go grovelling and give him what he wants. The expression is prima donna. Fantastic snooker player, absolute genius. Don't have time for the prima donna in him though. Just get on with it, sign the contract and choose your events. What's the problem? He won't get fined if he doesn't enter events, only if he enters and withdraws. That's my understanding anyway.


Absolutely Sonny, as long as Ronnie doesnt withdraw from events after entering in them, then it would be just fine. He would "only" lose ranking points, but that would be his decison really. Just can´t understand why he doesn't sign that bloody contract and be done with it. And, being World Champion, will benefit him cause he has an automatic entry in all events, so he could just pick and choose those which he considers more important and more lucrative.

I can stand a season without Ronnie, but it won't be the same of course... I just honestly hope we can still see him in the game for the future, whenever it is a year from now, I don't care.. just hope he doesn't quit for good.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Wildey

Andre147 wrote:
Sonny wrote:He's still got time because the season hasn't started for him yet. It's some sort of protest clearly, no doubt expecting World Snooker to go grovelling and give him what he wants. The expression is prima donna. Fantastic snooker player, absolute genius. Don't have time for the prima donna in him though. Just get on with it, sign the contract and choose your events. What's the problem? He won't get fined if he doesn't enter events, only if he enters and withdraws. That's my understanding anyway.


Absolutely Sonny, as long as Ronnie doesnt withdraw from events after entering in them, then it would be just fine. He would "only" lose ranking points, but that would be his decison really. Just can´t understand why he doesn't sign that bloody contract and be done with it. And, being World Champion, will benefit him cause he has an automatic entry in all events, so he could just pick and choose those which he considers more important and more lucrative.

I can stand a season without Ronnie, but it won't be the same of course... I just honestly hope we can still see him in the game for the future, whenever it is a year from now, I don't care.. just hope he doesn't quit for good.

exactly if all he wants is a break from the game then sign it however my belief is he wants to earn exho money while WSA Events on and if he signs the contract he cant.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Monique

The very simple fact is that none of you or me has seen the players contract and we don't know what is in there that Ronnie doesn't want to commit to. Suggestions that it is about exhibition money are pure speculations.
Ronnie's statement - through his management - doesn't suggest anything of the like, nor does WSA statement.
The use of the word "onerous" rather suggests it's about commitment, and given Ronnie's stance about the full schedule, most probably commitment to actually enter events.
Comments on David Hendon blog suggest that WSA has committed with certain broadcaster(s) to guarantee that the World Champion and the World n°1 would be present at some events. I don't know if this is the case, but if it is then I'd expect this to be reflected in the players contract and it might be one of the "problems".
Another thing I have heard - and not from ROS or Grove , I want to make this clear - is that players wouldn't be allowed to "skip" more than 12 tournaments over two consecutive season. Again I don't know if there is any truth in this, but if there is this clearly is a "problem" as Ronnie does not intend to play in any of the PTCs this season or in the future.

What is not speculations is that if he, or anyone, is not committed to respect the contract, for whatever reason, then the only honest, reasonable or actually possible stance is indeed to refuse to sign it.

I've read the word "prima dona" about the time of announcement. When would be a good time to announce it? Now the deadline for the signature of the contract is just over, and if the reigning World Champion didn't sign it and hence rules himself out of the coming tournaments, neither WSA or himself/his management can keep it quiet. We are at the very start of the season, with no tournament on television. Now is as good a time as any to make the situation clear for everyone, fans, promoters and organisers alike.

Another thing: Ronnie and Barry Hearn know each other for many, many years, more than 20 years, and I don't believe that Ronnie expects or hopes that Barry would take any other stance than the one he did. So all the raging and the "Barry Hearn should say this or do that" are completely pointless. Barry Hearn will run the sport the way he wants and stick to his guns and nobody expects anything else.

Ronnie has the opportunity to sign the contract at any time and enter subsequently every event which entry is still "open". Will he do it? Many seem to think he will. I don't. He has not entered the Premier League which is probably his favorite event and that tells me that the reasons behind his decision not to sign the contract are serious and maybe final.

If anyone cares to remember, Ronnie had decided to put an end to his career last season, in 2010/11 and then changed his mind to an extend, went to see Steve Peters and decided to give it another go. Ending a career like his on a string of defeats was never going to be satisfactory for someone who is a great champion and certainly has his pride. Last year, in June, when he did an exhibition with Jimmy at the Barbican in York, he told a few people that he was going to give this season, 2011/12 a really good go but that it would probably be his last and that he was to take a break at the end of it. I think it was about proving to all, but maybe mainly to himself, that he still has it in him and that his decision wasn't driven by the feeling that he wasn't good enough anymore. He always said that he wanted to go on a high and it doesn't come higher than being the World Champion. To me he's simply sticking to his guns and I'm not surprised at all by the "news".
Again if anyone cares to remember, when he won the PL in 2010 he said that this might be his last. Another indication that this is not a rash decision, he's been thinking long and hard about it and it can't have been an easy one. Yes, he had often in the past said that he had enough. But he had never acted upon it, now he has. And anybody knowing him, will know that he is more balanced , and happy within himself, now than he has ever been as an adult.

Snooker will go on, no doubt whatever Ronnie decides in the long term. Nobody in any sport is "unmissable". Sportspersons come and go. Ronnie certainly knows it. This is simply about what he wants for himself and his life after 20 years in the game. 20 years that have often been obscured by depression and a complicate private life, under the spotlights, which hasn't made it any easier.

As Ronnie said in Sheffield: "Snooker has changed a lot over the last two years. The changes will suit some people, and it will not suit other people." He's never made a mystery that it didn't suit him. Barry Hearn has a sport to run and wants to do it his own way. He's been clear about his plans and he will go ahead. Ronnie has a life to live, has priorities that are not compatible with a packed calendar and inevitably was due to take a decision and make his choices clear. It seems he has and that's it.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Wildey

mon

you dont have to be a genious to work out why he wont sign it

the restrictive nature of not having time to play more meaningless shitty exhibitions and if he signs it before hes ready to come back will mean he cant play them while WSA Events on.

that is why id ban him for the entire season unless he does sign it before the Wuxi classic starts.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Monique

Wild WC wrote:mon

you dont have to be a genious to work out why he wont sign it

of course being a bit of a hammer comes in to it but theres other reason like the restrictive nature of not having time to play more meaningless shitty exhibitions and if he signs it before hes ready to come back will mean he cant play them while WSA Events on.

that is why id ban him for the entire season unless he does sign it before the Wuxi classic starts.


You don't know why he doesn't want to sign it wild. You simply don't know and it's all speculations on your part. Nothing more.
And sure enough if he doesn't play on the MT he will do exhibitions although I'm not expecting him to do many of them.
The main difference between exhibitions and professional tournaments in this context being that exhibitions time and scheduled are agreed between parties, while a professional sport has its calendar with little or no flexibility. That's a simple fact of life and not a criticism about how the sport is run.

Hendry also cited the schedule as one of the main reasons for calling it a day and whatever you might say or think, I was there in Sheffield and he came to the press room quite regularly to discuss with his chinese media partner and he said it quite a few times and fully means it.
The young and free will love the packed schedule, the older players with a lot of "snooker life baggage" and other commitments in life probably not so much or not at all. If that's the way snooker is to evolve, so be it. Time will tell if it's good or bad. But at least personal choices should be respected by the fans. Those guys have given us a lot for 20 years for Ronnie, 27 for Hendry, they deserve that much.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Wildey

speculation it might be but im right.

hendry being retired opens all sort of lucrative possibilities in china regarding exhobitions for him that signing a contract will cockerel up.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Witz78

Trumps young and free and a self proclaimed "international playboi" yet even he doesnt like the tour

the players from top to bottom are pretty much all a joke with their attitudes

if i was Hearn id chuck the lot of them off the tour and start from scratch with players who want to be a part of his revolution

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Monique

Wild WC wrote:speculation it might be but im right.

hendry being retired opens all sort of lucrative possibilities in china regarding exhobitions for him that signing a contract will cockerel up.


No you are NOT right. You are just pushing your views through everyone throats as usual, here and on other places while actually you know absolutely nothing about the facts or what goes on in other peoples mind.
And yes it does for Hendry, as it might do for Ronnie should he chose to go that way. What's wrong with that if it was the case? Or is it right for one and wrong for the other?

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:
Wild WC wrote:speculation it might be but im right.

hendry being retired opens all sort of lucrative possibilities in china regarding exhobitions for him that signing a contract will cockerel up.


No you are NOT right. You are just pushing your views through everyone throats as usual, here and on other places while actually you know absolutely nothing about the facts or what goes on in other peoples mind.
And yes it does for Hendry, as it might do for Ronnie should he chose to go that way. What's wrong with that if it was the case? Or is it right for one and wrong for the other?

if ronnie wants to follow hendry good luck to him but if i was in charge he wont be defending his world title without signing it soon.

lucky for ronnie hearn is soft.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Monique

Hearn is not soft at all but even him has to respect other peoples rights. If players are to be treated equally and they are entitled to sign the contract at any time, so does Ronnie.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:Hearn is not soft at all but even him has to respect other peoples rights. If players are to be treated equally and they are entitled to sign the contract at any time, so does Ronnie.

no player should have the freedome to go against the contract terms if they so wish and then welcome back with open arms once they sign that makes a mockery of the whole point of the contract.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Monique

ROS is not going "against" the contracts terms. He would if he signed it and then didn't commit to it, that would make a mockery of it indeed. But if he or anyone else BTW, feel they can't commit to the contract terms, whatever the reasons, then it's the right and only honest option not to sign it and there is no reason to forbid them to sign it later should the circumstances change.

The all point of any contract is precisely commitment on agreed terms. If the agreement or commitment isn't there, then the contract should not be sealed.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Wildey

if he has freedome to do what say Higgins cant then he is going against whats in the contract.

Higgins has signed plus taking a break with family thats not breaching the contract.

there needs to be consequences for not signing not signing when you feel like it there should be a deadline he needs to sign it by first ball of wuxi seems fair to me.

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Roland

Tell you what, all the people telling Ronnie to start his own league seperate from World Snooker, I say go for it, at least it'll take the pleb section of "fans" with it!

Re: ROS timeout

Postby SnookerFan

Sonny wrote:Tell you what, all the people telling Ronnie to start his own league seperate from World Snooker, I say go for it, at least it'll take the pleb section of "fans" with it!


They are out in force on that thread. (Apart from you Monique. :hatoff: )

See that guy going; "Snooker needs Ronnie more than it needs Old Man Hearn." <doh>

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Witz78

Sonny wrote:Tell you what, all the people telling Ronnie to start his own league seperate from World Snooker, I say go for it, at least it'll take the pleb section of "fans" with it!


:fart:

Re: ROS timeout

Postby Witz78

Wild WC wrote:if he has freedome to do what say Higgins cant then he is going against whats in the contract.

Higgins has signed plus taking a break with family thats not breaching the contract.

there needs to be consequences for not signing not signing when you feel like it there should be a deadline he needs to sign it by first ball of wuxi seems fair to me.


the MILLION DOLLAR question has to be


WHAT THE HELL IS IN THE CONTRACT ????


surely someone can find out