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Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Witz78

Theres always been a lot of debate and argument whenever a player is accused of bottling it, not only in snooker but in all sports. The final yesterdayhas just ignited the debate.

Now some people use the blinkered argument that these top players are great players so couldnt possible "bottle it" as if there almost superheroes when the fact remains they are just humans like the rest of us.

Traits of "bottling it" in my opinion are the following.

1) Missing routine pots at the critical part of the match that you wouldnt normally miss

2) Starting to alter your normal game and playing shots you wouldnt normally, usually adopting an ultra-defensive approach

3) Visibly showing signs of pressure with a worried look on your face, sighing, muttering under your breath, shaking your head etc which lets your opponent know your on the ropes

4) Letting a previous bad shot play on your mind and rushing next few shots with little thought or regard for the possibility of them going wrong

5) Moments of madness where you just play a wild reckless shot not caring

6) Arguing with the ref, fans or showing displays of anger

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Wildey

for Me if you are showing no 3 Points AND Playing No 2 Points thats Bottling.

Pots are missed in every frame for different reasons so thats not Bottling automatically it could be alignment slight kick all sorts of things... yes some pots are missed because of Bottling but thats far less frequent than its being pointed out on forums.

for me if you showing no 3 points and still playing your normal game then thats not really bottling.

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Roland

Both Selby and Williams are bottlers by that definition then.

I think you have to look at circumstances and just because a player bottles it on one occasion it does not make them a bottler. I've seen both Selby and Williams show remarkable bottle in extreme pressure situations but then on a different day they can produce a match like we saw yesterday.

Also to those people quick to label others a bottler, I think generally they have no clue about what it's like to be in a high pressure situation where your head is throbbing and your mind can't think straight and your hands feel as if they are being controlled by someone else. It's so easy to watch and laugh at others struggle with pressure, but playing any sport under extreme pressure is bloody difficult.

In snooker I think some players by the way they play encourage pressure and I would put Selby and Ebdon in this bracket because they put so much effort into every single shot. They acknowledge the pressure exists which in many ways shows even more bottle than a fluent player who rushes around the shop and then twitches when it hits them as they're down on the shot that it's a significant one.

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby GJ

I have never seen robbo show signs of bottling

stevens sadly has shown all those things

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby GJ

John From London Town wrote:Players consistently missing frame or match balls is what I gauge a persons, putting a polite term to it, temperament. I like to look for signs of when a player shows 'bottle', as you put it Witz.



Carter does that alot misses frame ball

i remember 1 match in particular where hs missed about frame balls in 4 successive frames rofl :chuckle: :wave:

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Witz78

GJ wrote:I have never seen robbo show signs of bottling

stevens sadly has shown all those things


How about in the Masters when he did that :limp: fist pump and shout out when he went 3-0 up v Ronnie at the Masters then proceeded to self destruct

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Witz78

Sonny wrote:Both Selby and Williams are bottlers by that definition then.

I think you have to look at circumstances and just because a player bottles it on one occasion it does not make them a bottler. I've seen both Selby and Williams show remarkable bottle in extreme pressure situations but then on a different day they can produce a match like we saw yesterday.

Also to those people quick to label others a bottler, I think generally they have no clue about what it's like to be in a high pressure situation where your head is throbbing and your mind can't think straight and your hands feel as if they are being controlled by someone else. It's so easy to watch and laugh at others struggle with pressure, but playing any sport under extreme pressure is bloody difficult.

In snooker I think some players by the way they play encourage pressure and I would put Selby and Ebdon in this bracket because they put so much effort into every single shot. They acknowledge the pressure exists which in many ways shows even more bottle than a fluent player who rushes around the shop and then twitches when it hits them as they're down on the shot that it's a significant one.


i play big money matches and yes i do get that sinking feeling sometimes and yes i do sometimes twitch frame balls or when the finishing line is in sight i alter my normal attacking game going too cagey, but other times i dont feel the pressure.

A lot of it depends upon on the day and how the match has gone up until the critical end point really.

Some players who are repeat offenders like Stevens can rightly be called bottler but others like Williams cant really be called bottlers, but for certain games its def the case that they bottled these matches.

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Casey

Monique wrote:
Casey wrote:Points 5 & 6 would define Ronnie's career.


But even more so Alex Higgins career ;-)


Very true, whilst necking a few bottles as well.

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Wildey

Mark Williams took the snake hiss out of hendry for missing that black in 1998 masters saying he bottled it.

that was not a bottle because he rolled it fully expecting to get it had hendry stunned it in or hitting it with power with the intension of hoping it ran safe that would have been bottling the shot.

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Witz78

Wild wrote:Mark Williams took the snake hiss out of hendry for missing that black in 1998 masters saying he bottled it.

that was not a bottle because he rolled it fully expecting to get it had hendry stunned it in or hitting it with power with the intension of hoping it ran safe that would have been bottling the shot.


Lol that was a classic bottle job <doh>

Hendry was rattled and that was the first sign of his invincibility crumbling and he knew it

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Casey

Witz78 wrote:
Wild wrote:Mark Williams took the snake hiss out of hendry for missing that black in 1998 masters saying he bottled it.

that was not a bottle because he rolled it fully expecting to get it had hendry stunned it in or hitting it with power with the intension of hoping it ran safe that would have been bottling the shot.


Lol that was a classic bottle job <doh>

Hendry was rattled and that was the first sign of his invincibility crumbling and he knew it


It 100% rolled off, if you look back at the footage you can see the ball rolling off.

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Witz78

Casey wrote:
Witz78 wrote:
Wild wrote:Mark Williams took the snake hiss out of hendry for missing that black in 1998 masters saying he bottled it.

that was not a bottle because he rolled it fully expecting to get it had hendry stunned it in or hitting it with power with the intension of hoping it ran safe that would have been bottling the shot.


Lol that was a classic bottle job <doh>

Hendry was rattled and that was the first sign of his invincibility crumbling and he knew it


It 100% rolled off, if you look back at the footage you can see the ball rolling off.




About 6:30 the fun starts

it DEF never rolled off, he simply overcut it due to the hampered cueing

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby Wildey

if it went off line or not missed pots is not automatically a bottle job that black was not a bottle job.

snooker is a bloody hard sport to play he might have put a trace of side on the ball ....

every time theres a miss pot in a decider someone on here says he bottled it.....sorry but thats a load of rubbish.

Re: Definition of "bottling it"

Postby kriss

Casey wrote:
It 100% rolled off, if you look back at the footage you can see the ball rolling off.


Lol it didnt roll off, he had to play it dead weight because the stun shot wasnt possible with the white so close to the cushion.

Hendry didnt bottle the shot- he missed it because it wasnt easy. He probably compensated for the nap but it didnt take during the shot. Hence why he hit the far jaw.


   

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