Are people slowly turning against Judd Trump?

Sickpotter wrote:
I don't think Hearn and others who've suggested Judd's going to be the "savior" of snooker have done him any favors.

No. Judd would do well to ignore such false prophets, and just get on with his snookering.

But, can't complain. Won his first ranker last season. A Crucible finalist. It seems an odd time for his fans to suddenly start putting a hating on him.

If people are that bothered by Trump's ramblings on twitter, I suggest not reading them. Seriously. The kid is the best thing to happen snooker since Ronnie O'Sullivan came on the scene, and people should be bloody thankful that there's a new kid on the block with a frightening amount of talent.

Ronnie O'Sullivan's been talking rubbish for about 15 years, was he a bad thing for the game? Well, considering he was the game's biggest draw, he obviously wasn't. Trump is going to divide opinion, but let's just put that to one side: he's good, really good and one of the best to watch.

I'm not convinced he's an out-and-out playboy. He always seemed shy to me, but he's a young fellah with a lot of talent and suddenly a hell of a lot of money and fame. How do you react in that situation?

In my opinion, he really let the World Championship slip. He was naive when it mattered most against the smartest snooker player on the planet, and he was punished. I actually think Trump was the better player, but Higgins was too cunning, and that was the difference. Perhaps he's struggling to get to grips with losing a World Final that could have been won?

I haven't followed any snooker at all of late for personal reasons so I don't know how he's played since May, but I do wish Trump well. He's a breath of fresh air, and fans of this game could do worse things than not take the moral high ground with him, and rather be very thankful.

Tubberlad wrote:If people are that bothered by Trump's ramblings on twitter, I suggest not reading them. Seriously. The kid is the best thing to happen snooker since Ronnie O'Sullivan came on the scene, and people should be bloody thankful that there's a new kid on the block with a frightening amount of talent.

Ronnie O'Sullivan's been talking rubbish for about 15 years, was he a bad thing for the game? Well, considering he was the game's biggest draw, he obviously wasn't. Trump is going to divide opinion, but let's just put that to one side: he's good, really good and one of the best to watch.

I'm not convinced he's an out-and-out playboy. He always seemed shy to me, but he's a young fellah with a lot of talent and suddenly a hell of a lot of money and fame. How do you react in that situation?

In my opinion, he really let the World Championship slip. He was naive when it mattered most against the smartest snooker player on the planet, and he was punished. I actually think Trump was the better player, but Higgins was too cunning, and that was the difference. Perhaps he's struggling to get to grips with losing a World Final that could have been won?

I haven't followed any snooker at all of late for personal reasons so I don't know how he's played since May, but I do wish Trump well. He's a breath of fresh air, and fans of this game could do worse things than not take the moral high ground with him, and rather be very thankful.

I always thought he was, but nobody agreed.

Yeah, I don't know where all this stuff about him being a player comes from. I know he said he was an international playboy on twitter, but that's it. If I said I was a Brad Pitt look-a-like on twitter, would lots of women suddenly want to sleep with me?

I think we take that a little bit too seriously on this site. There's no point getting all butt-hurt when we realise he isn't really touring the world being a playa.

yeh but hes painted this picture of himself yet the reality is theres more chance of seeing Snookerfan doing the samba in Brazil next month.

Having watched the World Final for a second time I have to say Higgins played a much smarter match than I originally gave him credit for.

Sonny wrote:Having watched the World Final for a second time I have to say Higgins played a much smarter match than I originally gave him credit for.

id say he played his typical boring style and got lucky once again as his opponents capitulated when they had him beat.

i can think of about 20 occasions in the last 2/3 seasons he shoulda lost but ground his way to victory, the biggest joke of a victory being the one in court of course

Witz78 wrote:

Sonny wrote:Having watched the World Final for a second time I have to say Higgins played a much smarter match than I originally gave him credit for.

id say he played his typical boring style and got lucky once again as his opponents capitulated when they had him beat.

i can think of about 20 occasions in the last 2/3 seasons he shoulda lost but ground his way to victory, the biggest joke of a victory being the one in court of course

Surely after a while you realise that it's not 20 cases of luck but rather more than just coincidence ... if everyone played snooker perfectly it would be tremendously dull, everyone makes mistakes but it just happens that Higgins tends to make less ...

Sickpotter wrote:I don't think Hearn and others who've suggested Judd's going to be the "savior" of snooker have done him any favors.

A lot of people have been waiting years for the young players to come through and wipe out all the early 90's journeymen hanging around. Whenever Trump hasn't lived up to their expectations they've been frustated. I haven't seen his twitter but International Playboi looks like a joke and if he's serious it's more laughable than anything worth disliking. International mammys boi more like.

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:

Sickpotter wrote:I don't think Hearn and others who've suggested Judd's going to be the "savior" of snooker have done him any favors.

A lot of people have been waiting years for the young players to come through and wipe out all the early 90's journeymen hanging around. Whenever Trump hasn't lived up to their expectations they've been frustated. I haven't seen his twitter but International Playboi looks like a joke and if he's serious it's more laughable than anything worth disliking. International mammys boi more like.

Course it's a joke. But Witz has spent the past few months believing it.

Bourne wrote:

Witz78 wrote:

Sonny wrote:Having watched the World Final for a second time I have to say Higgins played a much smarter match than I originally gave him credit for.

id say he played his typical boring style and got lucky once again as his opponents capitulated when they had him beat.

i can think of about 20 occasions in the last 2/3 seasons he shoulda lost but ground his way to victory, the biggest joke of a victory being the one in court of course

Surely after a while you realise that it's not 20 cases of luck but rather more than just coincidence ... if everyone played snooker perfectly it would be tremendously dull, everyone makes mistakes but it just happens that Higgins tends to make less ...

if hes that good how come hes not won a match comfortably in about 5 years, honestly he stumbles or grinds his way over the line every bloody time and usually has to come from behind just his luck the rest of the pack are spineless and cant compete mentally with him.

Stumbles and grinds his way over the line

I reckon you're looking at Higgins physical appearance and judging that he looks fatigued and beaten when in reality that is when he's most dangerous. He ups several gears when required, danger signs when a match appears to be slipping from his grasp = up your game time.

Sonny wrote:Stumbles and grinds his way over the line

I reckon you're looking at Higgins physical appearance and judging that he looks fatigued and beaten when in reality that is when he's most dangerous. He ups several gears when required, danger signs when a match appears to be slipping from his grasp = up your game time.

Dammit, Higgins four World Title victories were all flukes...

Witz78 wrote:

Bourne wrote:

Witz78 wrote:

Sonny wrote:Having watched the World Final for a second time I have to say Higgins played a much smarter match than I originally gave him credit for.

id say he played his typical boring style and got lucky once again as his opponents capitulated when they had him beat.

i can think of about 20 occasions in the last 2/3 seasons he shoulda lost but ground his way to victory, the biggest joke of a victory being the one in court of course

Surely after a while you realise that it's not 20 cases of luck but rather more than just coincidence ... if everyone played snooker perfectly it would be tremendously dull, everyone makes mistakes but it just happens that Higgins tends to make less ...

if hes that good how come hes not won a match comfortably in about 5 years, honestly he stumbles or grinds his way over the line every bloody time and usually has to come from behind just his luck the rest of the pack are spineless and cant compete mentally with him.

I think you've just described to me the Nadull era Only in his case the come from behind thing has a bit more meaning

Witz78 wrote:

Sonny wrote:Having watched the World Final for a second time I have to say Higgins played a much smarter match than I originally gave him credit for.

id say he played his typical boring style and got lucky once again as his opponents capitulated when they had him beat.

i can think of about 20 occasions in the last 2/3 seasons he shoulda lost but ground his way to victory, the biggest joke of a victory being the one in court of course

LOL!!! If it happens 20 times in 2-3 seasons it's not luck. Luck could account for a very small percentage of wins, when the percentage goes higher than 5% it's called skill.

Are you ever going to get over your Higgins hate on or will you just continue to believe NOTW was a well run, ethically minded quality paper that would never attempt to stitch someone up?

Witz, with all due respect, a player winning around 20 matches he probably shouldn't have is not something to be criticised. The reason John Higgins wins those games is because he has an aura about him, that comes with being a great player. O'Sullivan, Williams, Hendry & Davis all won matches where they were helped significantly by the fact that they were O'Sullivan, Williams, Hendry & Davis. Higgins is a great player, and over the last five years he has been the best player for the majority:

mid 2005-mid 2007: Higgins
2007-mid 2009: O'Sullivan
Since then: Higgins

Do I like Higgins? No. Do I find him boring? At times, but I don't think I can be criticised for that because many found Hendry to be boring, doesn't mean he wasn't a great player. I rate Higgins as one of the top three players I've seen play, probably second overall. But he's a great player, whatever your thoughts on him and to call 20 wins down to luck is wrong: it's no coincidence he wins them.

Tubberlad wrote:Witz, with all due respect, a player winning around 20 matches he probably shouldn't have is not something to be criticised. The reason John Higgins wins those games is because he has an aura about him, that comes with being a great player. O'Sullivan, Williams, Hendry & Davis all won matches where they were helped significantly by the fact that they were O'Sullivan, Williams, Hendry & Davis. Higgins is a great player, and over the last five years he has been the best player for the majority:

mid 2005-mid 2007: Higgins
2007-mid 2009: O'Sullivan
Since then: Higgins

Do I like Higgins? No. Do I find him boring? At times, but I don't think I can be criticised for that because many found Hendry to be boring, doesn't mean he wasn't a great player. I rate Higgins as one of the top three players I've seen play, probably second overall. But he's a great player, whatever your thoughts on him and to call 20 wins down to luck is wrong: it's no coincidence he wins them.

I think it's a shame he's seen as boring to watch. I find him fascinating to watch. I occasionally hate him like when he was hanging onto Mark Williams coat tails in the semi when Williams should've gone 10-6 up, but I will always tune into his matches just to see how he wins.

I don't find him boring. I really like watching John Higgins play. He's basically seen as boring/a grinder because he isn't Ronnie. But John is an excellent all-round player.

I find him extremely frustrating but in a good way, witz is right with what he says about how often he seems to be beaten but surely any fan of sport can find it within themselves to respect how he keeps managing to dig in, and I find it hard saying that as a Judd supporter

SnookerFan wrote:He's basically seen as boring/a grinder because he isn't Ronnie. But John is an excellent all-round player.

Very true.

I always actually enjoyed watching Higgins play and had an incredible amount of respect for him as a person, but in the past year I've not enjoyed watching him play at all, I just want him to get beat. I just wish that the whole bloody sting never happened cos I really liked John Higgins.

But to claim he wins ALL his matches down to luck is absurd. When you're as good as he is, you make your luck.

I do find him a bit boring to watch, and I make no apologies for that, sometimes I feel like it's taboo to criticise John Higgins at all. Just because I criticise him doesn't mean I don't recognise a great player when I see one. And he is a great player. My main criticism of Higgins is that it's very rare you see him absolutely hammer a player in the way O'Sullivan used to all the time, but I guess he's just not that kind of player.

Spot on.

John does not have the intimidation factor Ronnie has when in top form.

IMO I'd say John plays the player (proper match mentality) but Ronnie plays the table. Playing the table rather than the player is the best way to have a loose flowing style of play similar to what you get on your practice table but it's hard to maintain that kind of play when someone plays back at you.

Witz78 wrote:yeh but hes painted this picture of himself yet the reality is theres more chance of seeing Snookerfan doing the samba in Brazil next month.

thats the point

international mummys boy

Sickpotter wrote:Spot on.

John does not have the intimidation factor Ronnie has when in top form.

IMO I'd say John plays the player (proper match mentality) but Ronnie plays the table. Playing the table rather than the player is the best way to have a loose flowing style of play similar to what you get on your practice table but it's hard to maintain that kind of play when someone plays back at you.

Yes John definitely plays the player. What I liked about his performance in the world final is that when Judd looked like he was about to head off into the distance, Higgins took on some chances he wasn't taking on previously. He changed his game directly in relation to how his opponent was playing.

As for intimidation, he sure intimidated Williams into going to pieces in the World Semi.

Sickpotter wrote:Spot on.

John does not have the intimidation factor Ronnie has when in top form.

IMO I'd say John plays the player (proper match mentality) but Ronnie plays the table. Playing the table rather than the player is the best way to have a loose flowing style of play similar to what you get on your practice table but it's hard to maintain that kind of play when someone plays back at you.

Probably a fair observation that he plays the player. Higgins is always far more intense in his approach, maybe it doesn't always make for box office material, but it works. It's strange I never warmed to Higgins' game when I always liked watching the focus and determination of Ebdon & Dott.

I'd watch O'Sullivan ahead of him any day, but they are the two best players of the last fifteen years. Whichever of the two is better is down to opinion, I say O'Sullivan, many will go for Higgins. But as snooker players, one thing they both deserve is respect because they are/were both ridiculously good.

Sonny wrote:

Sickpotter wrote:Spot on.

John does not have the intimidation factor Ronnie has when in top form.

IMO I'd say John plays the player (proper match mentality) but Ronnie plays the table. Playing the table rather than the player is the best way to have a loose flowing style of play similar to what you get on your practice table but it's hard to maintain that kind of play when someone plays back at you.

Yes John definitely plays the player. What I liked about his performance in the world final is that when Judd looked like he was about to head off into the distance, Higgins took on some chances he wasn't taking on previously. He changed his game directly in relation to how his opponent was playing.

As for intimidation, he sure intimidated Williams into going to pieces in the World Semi.

that said more about marks state of mind that he let john intimidate him mark isnt a kid hes been there done that but the belief in beating higgins not there at the moment

Never was a fan..

randam05 wrote:Never was a fan..

Yeh he's about twenty years too young to get on your favs list

im not even biased against Higgins cos of the NOTW episode

i hated him in the 90s, he was always dour and boring and to be honest a Hendry Mark 2 zzzzzzzzzzzz

ive no interest in players like him, not my style at all, give me a kamikaze Drago, a foaming at the mouth Alex or a loose cannon Hann anyday ahead of Higgins and his gritty determination.

at least Ebdon who i like and am a big fan of, takes risks and isnt the boring player that Snookerfan and so many other so called experts seem to think.

Witz78 wrote:im not even biased against Higgins cos of the NOTW episode

i hated him in the 90s, he was always dour and boring and to be honest a Hendry Mark 2 zzzzzzzzzzzz

ive no interest in players like him, not my style at all, give me a kamikaze Drago, a foaming at the mouth Alex or a loose cannon Hann anyday ahead of Higgins and his gritty determination.

at least Ebdon who i like and am a big fan of, takes risks and isnt the boring player that Snookerfan and so many other so called experts seem to think.

Ah, now we get to the heart of it.....you don't like competetive snooker, you like exhibition snooker.

Fair enough, we're all entitled to watch what we like

Never thought I'd see the day where your views would match Monique's