Rory Mcleod doesnt shake refs hand due to his religion.

rigby5 wrote:There is know where in the rules about shaking hands with the reffs ....And for all you out there I know that all female reffs have been told prior to the match.. and have know problem that Rory will not shake their hand....Do people really think the only way to show respect Is to shake hands... Rory shows them total respect at all times just does not do it the same as everyone else...If the reffs are ok with it and have respect for Rorys beliefs then why is everyone else against it..... People should find out the true story before making up a story that is not true.

Spot on He could show a touch more respect with his speed though, i'm not having a go at him but as a spectacle we'd prefer it if he sped up.

rigby5 wrote:There is know where in the rules about shaking hands with the reffs ....And for all you out there I know that all female reffs have been told prior to the match.. and have know problem that Rory will not shake their hand....Do people really think the only way to show respect Is to shake hands... Rory shows them total respect at all times just does not do it the same as everyone else...If the reffs are ok with it and have respect for Rorys beliefs then why is everyone else against it..... People should find out the true story before making up a story that is not true.

to be honest its beside any point.....point is this religion treats people different based on gender do they think touching hands will make her pregnant or something ??

buck me rubbish

rory

GOOD ON YA RORY! ;)

buck me

i rest my case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg3m3t87-dk&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjbJnZUJTYU&NR=1
abusive runts

Wild wrote:buck me

i rest my case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg3m3t87-dk&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjbJnZUJTYU&NR=1
abusive runts

We wish you would rest your case?




Yes, I know how hypocritical it is that joke coming from me?

Wild, abuse exist in most religions when pushed to the extreme. If those vids are genuine, this is of course disgusting. But Islam is not all about that and certainly all Muslmis can't be put in the same basket. TBH I've been pretty strongly - and unsuccesfully - "brainwashed" in the catholic schools run by the nuns where I was sent from 3 yo till 17 yo. The level of hypocrisy there was just incredible as were quite a few things I was supposed to believe and to adhere to...
With a hindsight some were quite hilarious also like "avoid the company of boys/men in trains at all cost; the vibrations of the engine and general movement of the train is giving them "evil thoughts" ... which evil thoughts was of course left for us to try and guess. And the ripe age of 15 we were enlightened slightly as "evil thoughts" became "inappropriate physical reactions". Nasty beasts those males!
Coming back to Rory, interestingly, Michaela on twitter said that the matter of the handshake had been discussed between Rory and herself at the start of last season and that they had agreed to exchange nods at the start and end of matches. It might seems weird for us to avoid the handshake, but if Rory courteously explained his reasons and came to an agreement with the female referees, then, in my opinion it's OK. Probably Ivy Zhu who is new wasn't aware of that and anyway she didn't seem to bother really.

I think......

The headline of this article leads to the conflict.

I'm not religious. I woke up one Monday morning when I was 13 & my Dad was dead, completely out of the blue. Over the next week or so our home was filled with people praying, to what they felt I’m sure was right. I stood back & watched them. I didn't join in, just listened to what they were saying while they cried. Healthy? Not at all.

This fella Rory McLeod has done something only he himself can answer for. What are his own boundaries? Should he bestow his beliefs upon our game & introduce them too?

We can talk about our cultural differences all day long, but is Sport the place to do this? Sport is above religion, historically proven to be above politics too, think the Moscow or Los Angeles Olympics, Governments intervened & the result was the true winners were not proven.

I think it is despicable what he done, showing respect for his own beliefs, but disregarding the majority of others beliefs. He hasn't done himself any favours here, never mind the game. Shame Zidane wasn't ever reffed by a lady linesman or was what happened the start? I cannot believe no Sporting Muslim has ever not shaken a Lady official by the hand before. I think this religion lark is being made up as you go along.

The fella is making a stand, by introducing a niche into a market that is not required & for that, I think he is an absolute banker for doing so.

Interesting to hear Michaela's comments. I'm not going to post a pro- or anti- Rory message on that. But at least he sounds like he has respectfully explained his reasons beforehand, and the referees understood. Sounds like the leading female referee is defending him.

Not that I disagree with what anybody else has said. I don't think one gender is better then the other.

SnookerFan wrote:Interesting to hear Michaela's comments. I'm not going to post a pro- or anti- Rory message on that. But at least he sounds like he has respectfully explained his reasons beforehand, and the referees understood. Sounds like the leading female referee is defending him.

Not that I disagree with what anybody else has said. I don't think one gender is better then the other.

the sad thing is by defending him they are condoning the behavior towards muslim women which is disgusting.

rory

interesting development as Rory is clearly seen shaking the hand of michaela tabb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D3LIRwjIKY

hes only religions when he remembers he is

MichaelaTabb Michaela Tabb
For the record Rory n I nod to each other, this situation was discussed at the beginning of last season n I have no problem wi it at all..

the shootout was not beginning of last season.

Wild wrote:interesting development as Rory is clearly seen shaking the hand of michaela tabb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D3LIRwjIKY

hes only religions when he remembers he is

edited and tampered footage a low move to make rory look bad

GJ wrote:

Wild wrote:interesting development as Rory is clearly seen shaking the hand of michaela tabb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D3LIRwjIKY

hes only religions when he remembers he is

edited and tampered footage a low move to make rory look bad

He may not have enjoyed the experience of shaking Michaela's hand after the Shootout and decided to opt for the nod to referee after it.

markj147 wrote:He may not have enjoyed the experience of shaking Michaela's hand after the Shootout and decided to opt for the nod to referee after it.

snookerfan wouldn't let go

The Shootout is a non-ranker so he was so relaxed he didn't care what he did

Bourne wrote:The Shootout is a non-ranker so he was so relaxed he didn't care what he did

Wild wrote:

markj147 wrote:He may not have enjoyed the experience of shaking Michaela's hand after the Shootout and decided to opt for the nod to referee after it.

snookerfan wouldn't let go

I've had my arm round her a couple of times when I had my photo took with her. I even touched her back, man.

Wild wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:Interesting to hear Michaela's comments. I'm not going to post a pro- or anti- Rory message on that. But at least he sounds like he has respectfully explained his reasons beforehand, and the referees understood. Sounds like the leading female referee is defending him.

Not that I disagree with what anybody else has said. I don't think one gender is better then the other.

the sad thing is by defending him they are condoning the behavior towards muslim women which is disgusting.

Not in the slightest. Just trying to put a different slant on it.

I don't think anybody of any gender, race, religion, sexuality, nationality, hair colour, height, weight, nose length or anybody else should be persecuted against.

Just Aussies

SnookerFan wrote:

Wild wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:Interesting to hear Michaela's comments. I'm not going to post a pro- or anti- Rory message on that. But at least he sounds like he has respectfully explained his reasons beforehand, and the referees understood. Sounds like the leading female referee is defending him.

Not that I disagree with what anybody else has said. I don't think one gender is better then the other.

the sad thing is by defending him they are condoning the behavior towards muslim women which is disgusting.

Not in the slightest. Just trying to put a different slant on it.

I don't think anybody of any gender, race, religion, sexuality, nationality, hair colour, height, weight, nose length or anybody else should be persecuted against.

Reality is there is only one slant on it and if it was happening in Britain or America it would mean prison.

im not talking of the handshake obviously

call me picky but im not in the habit of supporting a culture that in the name of religion means women are being abused and covered under black bed sheets in unreal temperatures.

WOW just read about this on Hendon's blog. Hearn needs to issue a punishment for this. He's bang out of order.

Can't you just give it a break?
Michaela Tabb who knows the person and the situation better than any of us is OK with it. Rory it seems has explained himself and they have agreed on a way for him to mark his respect to her without acting in a way, that he, in his own belief system, feels inappropriate. Ivy Zhu probably wasn't aware of the agreement and it's a shame, but it's hardly the crime of the century and BTW herself didn't appear to be too bothered. There is certainly no case for "punishment", maybe just for a reminder that it has to be make sure that everyone is aware of the situation and nobody gets offended.
It's so easy to blame others, born in other cultures or other beliefs for being "out of order" because they don't comply to the same system of values as we do. Of course some things are plain wrong and should not be accepted: women and girls being kept out of education and medical care because of religion isn't acceptable to me, excision and rape certainly isn't acceptable neither, or forcing children into marriage, making under age children work... (yes even in sport!)
But if we look at ourselves there are quite a lot of things that others might find shocking and we see as normal. Eating with a knife is normal for us, bringing a knife at the table during a meal is an aggression for traditionalist chinese. We eat meat, Buddhists who respect every form of life think the vegetarianism is the only way compliant with their belief system.
Not to mention our own contradictions. We condemn pedophiles - 1000% rightly so - but then what about the "sexing" of very young kids? What about selling lolita underwear for kids under 7 in big chains? What about so many clips featuring very young girls/boys in barely veiled sexual situations (Alizee a few years back comes to my mind). We condemn violence, but our films and video games are full of them. So before jumping at others for petty sins (because this was at worse a petty sin), maybe, we should ALSO take a good hard look at ourselves and start the changes, if needed, here and now, in our own houses.

Monique wrote:Can't you just give it a break?
Michaela Tabb who knows the person and the situation better than any of us is OK with it. Rory it seems has explained himself and they have agreed on a way for him to mark his respect to her without acting in a way, that he, in his own belief system, feels inappropriate. Ivy Zhu probably wasn't aware of the agreement and it's a shame, but it's hardly the crime of the century and BTW herself didn't appear to be too bothered. There is certainly no case for "punishment", maybe just for a reminder that it has to be make sure that everyone is aware of the situation and nobody gets offended.
It's so easy to blame others, born in other cultures or other beliefs for being "out of order" because they don't comply to the same system of values as we do. Of course some things are plain wrong and should not be accepted: women and girls being kept out of education and medical care because of religion isn't acceptable to me, excision and rape certainly isn't acceptable neither, or forcing children into marriage, making under age children work... (yes even in sport!)
But if we look at ourselves there are quite a lot of things that others might find shocking and we see as normal. Eating with a knife is normal for us, bringing a knife at the table during a meal is an aggression for traditionalist chinese. We eat meat, Buddhists who respect every form of life think the vegetarianism is the only way compliant with their belief system.
Not to mention our own contradictions. We condemn pedophiles - 1000% rightly so - but then what about the "sexing" of very young kids? What about selling lolita underwear for kids under 7 in big chains? What about so many clips featuring very young girls/boys in barely veiled sexual situations (Alizee a few years back comes to my mind). We condemn violence, but our films and video games are full of them. So before jumping at others for petty sins (because this was at worse a petty sin), maybe, we should ALSO take a good hard look at ourselves and start the changes, if needed, here and now, in our own houses.

I’ve not had time to fully read this article yet so don’t know all the ins and outs. But to me this clearly looks like a case of gentleman misconduct. And there is a rule in snooker for this. Respect should be shown in snooker regardless of religion. I’m not a religious man myself I believe in scientific fact rather than book form myths but regardless if you are religious or not respect must be shown. At the end of the day its 2011 now, western religion has changed in modern times ie) female priests ect regardless of what it originally says in the bible. Surely Muslims can bring them selfs to shake a woman’s hand in the modern world.

Female priests are still not accepted in Catholicism.
There is nothing in the rules saying that respect should be shown specifically through a handshake. That was exactly my point: Michaela has come on twitter defending Rory and explaining that they had agreed on a different way for him to show his respect. So it's not a case of ungentlemanly conduct. Its just a case about in which form due respect is shown and there is NOTHING in the rules about it.

For your information Im NOT religious, if I adhere to any system of "belief" then that's "Libre examen" which basically states that we should exert our own judgement and not accept any form of authority, religious or politic, blindly, as a "given". Which doesn't mean that we should not accept any form of authority at all, no society can function in anarchy, just that we should do so in full knowledge and understanding of what we accept to comply to and why.
For the record, the best part of my fathers family has disappeared in fumes and ashes, because of intolerance and people hiding behind "authority" to justify the unjustifiable.

monique

dont you think its about time we say NO you do not treat people differently by just accepting it as done thing nothing will change and rubbish will continue..

small thing like a handshake today getting rid of burka or having catholic women priests tomorrow.

Monique wrote:Female priests are still not accepted in Catholicism.
There is nothing in the rules saying that respect should be shown specifically through a handshake. That was exactly my point: Michaela has come on twitter defending Rory and explaining that they had agreed on a different way for him to show his respect. So it's not a case of ungentlemanly conduct. Its just a case about in which form due respect is shown and there is NOTHING in the rules about it.

For your information Im NOT religious, if I adhere to any system of "belief" then that's "Libre examen" which basically states that we should exert our own judgement and not accept any form of authority, religious or politic, blindly, as a "given". Which doesn't mean that we should not accept any form of authority at all, no society can function in anarchy, just that we should do so in full knowledge and understanding of what we accept to comply to and why.
For the record, the best part of my fathers family has disappeared in fumes and ashes, because of intolerance and people hiding behind "authority" to justify the unjustifiable.

If it is true that the female referee is aware before any match well that certainly makes the situation better. But the problem today is everybody is too scared to offend people or more specifically be labelled a racist for expressing their opinions. Just look at what Milly Dower’s family went through at court. They were treated appallingly and all because the sicko’s human rights was the priority. That is the world we live in today I don’t want to sound like a grumpy old man but I’m afraid its political correctness gone mad.

When Jan Verhass first tweeted this story i was apalled that "A PLAYER" refused to shake a Female Refs Hand.....its just not the done thing and i did look at it from a welsh perspective of outrage and ignorant totally to the Muslim Faith.

but since ive looked up the Muslim faith and it just gets worst and worst and can not understand how someone like Rory that was not BORN a Muslim has adopted that Faith.

if you was Born in to it and know nothing else then thats life but for someone from another culture to take it on around his 30s is shocking.

Wild I'm the last person to want people to be treated differently or out-casted. However you can't expect that people will change over night to adopt some democratic principles, or mental attitudes that we needed centuries to evolve into. We preach tolerance and respect and we should be the first to exert it. We should not compromise on the important things, ever, but we should be inclusive rather than exclusive whenever that's possible. Our own society is far from perfect, you know.
Rory is not refusing to show respect to the female refs, however he prefers to do this in a way that is different from our traditional handshake and apparently has discussed it with Michaela at least. Where is the big deal? He should have done the same with Ivy before the match, but then there might be a zillion of reasons why he hasn't, the most likely one being that he only discovered who was reffing when coming at the table or minutes before and he didn't have time for that. If he was refusing to be reffed by a woman, just because she is a woman, that would be a different matter entirely.