Best young talents in the game?

Rocket_ron wrote:i thought you didn't like stats, tubbs

time will tell with trump, but i dont see him winning the WC in the next 3 years at least

I don't like stats, but these were an excellent illustration of why people are really misguided in writing Trump off.

Wild wrote:

Tubberlad wrote:Wild, it does come across that you seem to have a really strong dislike for Trump as a player, and I have got to say I find it irrational. Witz showed stats today that suggest Trump is well ahead of where Neil Robertson was at this age, so it's very clear that Trump may not be setting the world alight, but he has potential and has a lot of time to fulfill it. I think you're being too harsh on a good young player. I'm cautious about him, as I have doubts about his temprament, but I would be reasonably hopeful for the lad and am genuinely excited about how he plays the game.

yes it does come across in that way and its not meant to be but i find also irrational this thought that hes the Next BIG Thing lets see him get consistent Results first we not even got that from him.

at the moment Judd is a Journeyman waiting to happen .....they all start out with the same dream and comparing Judd whos had all the Help he needs From the Game in Britain with a Australian is just plain Stupid.

Wild you are infuriating ... he's AHEAD of Robbo in almost every aspect, not just level, or a little behind, but ahead. But you still call him a journeyman waiting to happen, despite all that Robbo's achieved ?

Wild wrote:

Tubberlad wrote:Wild, it does come across that you seem to have a really strong dislike for Trump as a player, and I have got to say I find it irrational. Witz showed stats today that suggest Trump is well ahead of where Neil Robertson was at this age, so it's very clear that Trump may not be setting the world alight, but he has potential and has a lot of time to fulfill it. I think you're being too harsh on a good young player. I'm cautious about him, as I have doubts about his temprament, but I would be reasonably hopeful for the lad and am genuinely excited about how he plays the game.

yes it does come across in that way and its not meant to be but i find also irrational this thought that hes the Next BIG Thing lets see him get consistent Results first we not even got that from him.

at the moment Judd is a Journeyman waiting to happen .....they all start out with the same dream and comparing Judd whos had all the Help he needs From the Game in Britain with a Australian is just plain Stupid.

I certainly don't agree that Trump is a journeyman waiting to happen, but I think it's stupid to call the guy the next big thing based on what he's done thus far. Right now, he is well behind where Hendry, O'Sullivan, Higgins, Williams & Ding were, so that's misguided. I just think he's a very good young professional with the potential to carve out a very good career in time...

Good of you to admit you're wrong

Bourne wrote:Good of you to admit you're wrong

He didn't

Let's be honest it's gona take something quite extraordinary for the likes of Lisowski and MacGill and MWhite etc to match JT in any of his achievements so far, none of them look like real breakthrough material to me atm.

You can't really compare Robbo with Trump at age 17 because Robbo didn't pick up a cue until he was 15!

Bourne wrote:Let's be honest it's gona take something quite extraordinary for the likes of Lisowski and MacGill and MWhite etc to match JT in any of his achievements so far, none of them look like real breakthrough material to me atm.

I'm not sure. I haven't seen the latter pair play, and I've only seen Lisowski playing once. He looked very assured, confident and was actually impressive in my opinion, but very hard to go by one match.

Tubberlad wrote:

Bourne wrote:Let's be honest it's gona take something quite extraordinary for the likes of Lisowski and MacGill and MWhite etc to match JT in any of his achievements so far, none of them look like real breakthrough material to me atm.

I'm not sure. I haven't seen the latter pair play, and I've only seen Lisowski playing once. He looked very assured, confident and was actually impressive in my opinion, but very hard to go by one match.

Yeh but in what aspect can Lisowski realistically out-do JT ?

Can't see him reaching a ranking semi soon
Can't see him winning a PTC soon (okay he got close but close ain't good enough )
Won't win CL yet
Won't qualify for PL for ages (let alone reach semis)
Won't be ranked ahead of JT for at least a season (pure minimum)
Won't ever qualify for the Crucible at a younger age than JT

Sonny wrote:You can't really compare Robbo with Trump at age 17 because Robbo didn't pick up a cue until he was 15!

Yes no question the last 2 years have been a bit of a lean period and disappointing but I don't think he's suddenly become an average player, I really think it's a simple as he needs one good tournament which will open the floodgates for him to get his confidence back, because that must be all he's lacking at the moment, confidence and that only comes with winning matches. PTC finals represents a good chance

Sonny, Anthony Mcgill lost to Stuart carrington in the final of junior pot black. Hannah was supposed to commentate on the final with Dennis Taylor but ebdon and fu knackered that up with one of the slowest matches. It was a close match though as I recall.

Wild wrote:

Tubberlad wrote:Wild, it does come across that you seem to have a really strong dislike for Trump as a player, and I have got to say I find it irrational. Witz showed stats today that suggest Trump is well ahead of where Neil Robertson was at this age, so it's very clear that Trump may not be setting the world alight, but he has potential and has a lot of time to fulfill it. I think you're being too harsh on a good young player. I'm cautious about him, as I have doubts about his temprament, but I would be reasonably hopeful for the lad and am genuinely excited about how he plays the game.

yes it does come across in that way and its not meant to be but i find also irrational this thought that hes the Next BIG Thing lets see him get consistent Results first we not even got that from him.

at the moment Judd is a Journeyman waiting to happen .....they all start out with the same dream and comparing Judd whos had all the Help he needs From the Game in Britain with a Australian is just plain Stupid.

Have to agree with wild here judd hasnt moved half way around the world so how can you compare him to robbo

markj147 wrote:Sonny, Anthony Mcgill lost to Stuart carrington in the final of junior pot black. Hannah was supposed to commentate on the final with Dennis Taylor but ebdon and fu knackered that up with one of the slowest matches. It was a close match though as I recall.

Oh well, there was a 50% chance of getting it right. Certainly McGill is the one I remember from that frame anyway so that's probably why I thought he won it. What happened to this Carrington chap anyway? And what is your read on the future names starting to break through Mark?

GJ wrote:

Wild wrote:

Tubberlad wrote:Wild, it does come across that you seem to have a really strong dislike for Trump as a player, and I have got to say I find it irrational. Witz showed stats today that suggest Trump is well ahead of where Neil Robertson was at this age, so it's very clear that Trump may not be setting the world alight, but he has potential and has a lot of time to fulfill it. I think you're being too harsh on a good young player. I'm cautious about him, as I have doubts about his temprament, but I would be reasonably hopeful for the lad and am genuinely excited about how he plays the game.

yes it does come across in that way and its not meant to be but i find also irrational this thought that hes the Next BIG Thing lets see him get consistent Results first we not even got that from him.

at the moment Judd is a Journeyman waiting to happen .....they all start out with the same dream and comparing Judd whos had all the Help he needs From the Game in Britain with a Australian is just plain Stupid.

Have to agree with wild here judd hasnt moved half way around the world so how can you compare him to robbo

So what you're saying is we'll never be able to compare Robertson with any British player in history because they don't have the same passport ?

Sonny wrote:

markj147 wrote:Sonny, Anthony Mcgill lost to Stuart carrington in the final of junior pot black. Hannah was supposed to commentate on the final with Dennis Taylor but ebdon and fu knackered that up with one of the slowest matches. It was a close match though as I recall.

Oh well, there was a 50% chance of getting it right. Certainly McGill is the one I remember from that frame anyway so that's probably why I thought he won it. What happened to this Carrington chap anyway? And what is your read on the future names starting to break through Mark?

Fair point I remember his hair and red cheeks when he came off the table

Interestingly Mitchell Mann beat Lisowski in Junior Pot black and Lisowski has gone onto better things.

Stuart Carrington was a great player but no idea where he is in the mix of thousands of great amateur players today, I assume he will be fighting for a tour place come QSchool.

To be honest after watching youngsters develop their match games and snooker brains over the years that Hannah has been playing I must confess that I have absolutely no idea.

Michael White I thought would be a shoe in for dominance, the same as Judd Trump just based on the tales of his amateur career. I look at Shane Castle and think that he will be the next big thing but who really knows, they still have so much growing up to do.

I have literally given up guessing. I saw this young lad at Pontins this week called Brandon Sargeant. 13 years old and plays phenomenal (no exaggeration) snooker. Position perfect and I have never heard of him. He made the final of the Under 15's against Darryl Hill (who beat Shane Castle 3-2 in the semi finals) another tremendous talent - don't know the result at the moment. Brandon has been playing since he was 6 but never played outside of his patch as I am led to believe by his father. He is going to be unleashed on the English Junior circuit next season and it will be interesting to see how he fares and develops.

Luca, for all to see on Youtube, has the potential to be a real star of the future. There are matches on there as well as his practice sessions which proves that he can compete and win against great opposition. He plays as though he is practicing, nice and free. I just hope that he gets the right guidance when he is on the main tour.

Media coverage is a big concern. Jack Lisowski made the televised stages against John Higgins and battled admirably, granted a bit rough around the edges for someone so young but still a great prospect. I watched him win the English Amateur against Leo Fernandez with ease and Leo told me at the World Champs that Jack was simply too good for him. This coverage will no doubt improve his performance next time.

What makes these players rise to the next level and become household names. It is how they cope with the increased media pressure and how confident they are.

Ding is an old man now by comparison but has had the media exposure and wins and yet is struggling so alot of things need to align for a player to prove themselves consistently on the main stage.

Hendry in his day felt he deserved to be the best and that there was no one out there capable of beating him. This confidence went along way to establishing him as a modern time great. Steve Davis had the same attitude and learnt to win against the best from a young age. It is tougher nowadays with so much strength in depth for players to gain that confidence so early in their careers and limited opportunity to get on the box and show people what they can do.

Bring back the World Matchplay so that we can see the best amateurs battle it out!

So in conclusion - I have no idea...........and have to defer to amateur records and reputations to mold my opinion.

Wrote this while in a meeting so apologies for the content. Some of it could read well...

I think Judd Trump always seems a bit shy and same with Jamie Cope whereas Lisowski seems full of self belief and that will give him a definite advantage.

When I used to play in these pro-ams a few years ago, Gary Wilson was the name expected to do well. He was the best player and was beating other very good players when he was 13 but he never made it in the pro game so it goes to show how hard it is to predict who will make it and who won't.

Well written considering you were in a meeting Mark

Where Jack Lisowski can out-do Trump is in actually dominating the game first/more powerfully, surely in the end it comes to that and not to reaching semis or qualifying for the Crucible at a younger age- and no one can say that first he'll have to follow Judd's path step by step (some of it, of course).
I think it may be a little harder for Judd (and take him longer too) to live up to his potential/people's expectations, it often happens when things go smoothly in someone's career, he already achieves impressive things being very young- and it's not only about pressure, actually maybe something opposite sometimes, like feeling that you have the talent and results have to come someday and being sure you have lots of time. On the other hand, when you feel it's your only chance and you need to make the most of it, plus you overcame a lot to get there, it's easier to find the motivation and quickly find yourself at the top. That's why I'd expect Lisowski to make faster progress, be first to develop the right attitude and things like that, although of course I didn't see much of him yet and I can be totally wrong. (Plus I think both will eventually be successful, probably doesn't matter much who'll be first where).