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Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Granite » 13 May 2023 Read

Got me thinking Mark Selby turns 40 this year and O'Sullivan is the benchmark for longevity, especially being highly successful in your 40s.

Having a quick look through, O'Sullivan has won 12 ranking events including 2 World Championships and 3 UK Championships. Along with a couple of Masters titles and other high profile non-rankers. This is pretty much an all-time great career just in your 40s.

So far Selby has shown good longevity from his first world final in 2007 to present, 16 years. But as Higgins and O'Sullivan has shown, those losses start to slowly creep up in world finals.

But can Selby produce a CV something similar to O'Sullivan's in his 40s? I thought his playing style wouldn't hold up given it's hard match snooker but it isn't the case.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby RunningSide » 14 May 2023 Read

Increased my respect for Selby during world final,very little deliberate slow play and refreshing attitude to break building. Not sure if this was a change of mind set or respect for Luca’s outstanding performance, let's see what next tournament brings.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Holden Chinaski » 14 May 2023 Read

RunningSide wrote:Increased my respect for Selby during world final,very little deliberate slow play and refreshing attitude to break building. Not sure if this was a change of mind set or respect for Luca’s outstanding performance, let's see what next tournament brings.

Agreed.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Johnny Bravo » 14 May 2023 Read

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Iranu wrote:I don’t think Selby’s game is anywhere near as draining to him as some assume.

Indeed. He loves it.

He might love it, but it takes too much concentration, and with age, it's gonna be hard to keep that up.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Iranu » 14 May 2023 Read

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Iranu wrote:I don’t think Selby’s game is anywhere near as draining to him as some assume.

Indeed. He loves it.

He might love it, but it takes too much concentration, and with age, it's gonna be hard to keep that up.

I doubt that very much.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby SnookerFan » 15 May 2023 Read

A couple of years ago, we had a conversation on here about whether Selby would equal or break Hendry's record of seven World Titles. (This was before Ronnie equalled them.) I think Selby was on three at the time.

I said probably not, partly due to time not being on his side age-wise and partly due to, as said, he does play a high concentration game and I wondered if he'd still be willing or able to play that style as he got into his mid-to-late 40s.

Since I said that, however, he was won a fourth and reached a final again. He didn't beat Luca obviously, but that was more down to Brecel playing amazingly rather than any poor play from Selby.

I certainly think it's possible that Selby has another World Title or two in him. I stand by the ascertion that him getting to eight isn't possible. And probably seven is beyond him, though I might have amended that opinion if he'd won his fifth a few weeks ago.

It is worth noting, that Selby played fairly fast and attacking against Brecel. I'm not suggesting that he always plays like that. But it proves he can have a modicum of success playing that way, as well as his making the balls go scrappy and picking them off style. If anything, in the semi-final, you could argue that it was Allen that was playing the more traditional style than Selby himself.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby The_Abbott » 15 May 2023 Read

you don't wake up one day and your 40 and your eyes fall out and your limbs start drooping.

Things can deteriorate over time but you don't tend to lose the snooker brain which is important to Selby' style of play. He will be fine competing in his 40's

Someone like Judd is different as he relys more on his style of play which could get effected by older age.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Iranu » 15 May 2023 Read

Pink Ball wrote:Steve Davis was still one of the best safety players in the world up to the mid noughties. It was the other parts of his game that were letting him down.

Yep. Plus players who hang on longer tend to do so by adapting to a safety-based game, compared to those who stubbornly remain attacking.

I also think we’re in an unprecedented era of snooker where age is having less of an effect on success than before. And not just with Ronnie.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Holden Chinaski » 15 May 2023 Read

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Steve Davis was still one of the best safety players in the world up to the mid noughties. It was the other parts of his game that were letting him down.

Yep. Plus players who hang on longer tend to do so by adapting to a safety-based game, compared to those who stubbornly remain attacking.

Indeed. It's the attacking players who have a hard time adapting when they get older. The eye sight gets worse and the long pots no longer go in. Selby, on the other hand, will not lose his tactical brain as he gets a bit older.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby LDS » 15 May 2023 Read

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Steve Davis was still one of the best safety players in the world up to the mid noughties. It was the other parts of his game that were letting him down.

Yep. Plus players who hang on longer tend to do so by adapting to a safety-based game, compared to those who stubbornly remain attacking.

I also think we’re in an unprecedented era of snooker where age is having less of an effect on success than before. And not just with Ronnie.


Steve Davis' losses at the World Championship since his last victory:

Jimmy White - 1990
John Parrott - 1991
Peter Ebdon - 1992
Alan McManus - 1993
Stephen Hendry - 1994
Andy Hicks - 1995
Peter Ebdon - 1996
Ken Doherty - 1997
Mark Williams - 1998
Joe Perry - 1999
John Higgins - 2000
Andy Hicks - 2001
Robin Hull - 2002
Stephen Lee - 2003
Anthony Hamilton - 2004
Shaun Murphy - 2005
Shaun Murphy - 2006
John Parrott - 2007
Stuart Bingham - 2008
Neil Robertson - 2009
Neil Robertson - 2010
Stephen Lee - 2011
Ben Woolaston - 2012
Kurt Maflin - 2013
Craig Steadman - 2014
Fergal O'Brien - 2015
Fergal O'Brien - 2016

It's quite easy to see at what point he'd stop being competitive. He'd usually have to face a very serious competitor to go out, even when he was long past his best.

I don't think the current scene has quite the non-stop roll-call of new talent that the 90s and 00s had and that if that era had been any less packed with fresh competitive edge then he'd probably have won another title or two in those 2 decades.

This year has been very encouraging for newer faces and challengers and he certainly has strong opposition, but I don't think there's enough depth of field to make progress fully challenging every step of the way, meaning his main competition might get a bad session and go out before he meets them.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby The_Abbott » 15 May 2023 Read

LDS wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Steve Davis was still one of the best safety players in the world up to the mid noughties. It was the other parts of his game that were letting him down.

Yep. Plus players who hang on longer tend to do so by adapting to a safety-based game, compared to those who stubbornly remain attacking.

I also think we’re in an unprecedented era of snooker where age is having less of an effect on success than before. And not just with Ronnie.


Steve Davis' losses at the World Championship since his last victory:

Jimmy White - 1990
John Parrott - 1991
Peter Ebdon - 1992
Alan McManus - 1993
Stephen Hendry - 1994
Andy Hicks - 1995
Peter Ebdon - 1996
Ken Doherty - 1997
Mark Williams - 1998
Joe Perry - 1999
John Higgins - 2000
Andy Hicks - 2001
Robin Hull - 2002
Stephen Lee - 2003
Anthony Hamilton - 2004
Shaun Murphy - 2005
Shaun Murphy - 2006
John Parrott - 2007
Stuart Bingham - 2008
Neil Robertson - 2009
Neil Robertson - 2010
Stephen Lee - 2011
Ben Woolaston - 2012
Kurt Maflin - 2013
Craig Steadman - 2014
Fergal O'Brien - 2015
Fergal O'Brien - 2016

It's quite easy to see at what point he'd stop being competitive. He'd usually have to face a very serious competitor to go out, even when he was long past his best.

I don't think the current scene has quite the non-stop roll-call of new talent that the 90s and 00s had and that if that era had been any less packed with fresh competitive edge then he'd probably have won another title or two in those 2 decades.

This year has been very encouraging for newer faces and challengers and he certainly has strong opposition, but I don't think there's enough depth of field to make progress fully challenging every step of the way, meaning his main competition might get a bad session and go out before he meets them.


so really it was 2012 before he started losing to those he should be beating. Wasn't he aged around 52 at that point?

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Johnny Bravo » 15 May 2023 Read

The_Abbott wrote:
LDS wrote:
Steve Davis' losses at the World Championship since his last victory:

Jimmy White - 1990
John Parrott - 1991
Peter Ebdon - 1992
Alan McManus - 1993
Stephen Hendry - 1994
Andy Hicks - 1995
Peter Ebdon - 1996
Ken Doherty - 1997
Mark Williams - 1998
Joe Perry - 1999
John Higgins - 2000
Andy Hicks - 2001
Robin Hull - 2002
Stephen Lee - 2003
Anthony Hamilton - 2004
Shaun Murphy - 2005
Shaun Murphy - 2006
John Parrott - 2007
Stuart Bingham - 2008
Neil Robertson - 2009
Neil Robertson - 2010
Stephen Lee - 2011
Ben Woolaston - 2012
Kurt Maflin - 2013
Craig Steadman - 2014
Fergal O'Brien - 2015
Fergal O'Brien - 2016

It's quite easy to see at what point he'd stop being competitive. He'd usually have to face a very serious competitor to go out, even when he was long past his best.

I don't think the current scene has quite the non-stop roll-call of new talent that the 90s and 00s had and that if that era had been any less packed with fresh competitive edge then he'd probably have won another title or two in those 2 decades.

This year has been very encouraging for newer faces and challengers and he certainly has strong opposition, but I don't think there's enough depth of field to make progress fully challenging every step of the way, meaning his main competition might get a bad session and go out before he meets them.


so really it was 2012 before he started losing to those he should be beating. Wasn't he aged around 52 at that point?

Andy Hicks - 1995

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Dragonfly » 15 May 2023 Read

Johnny Bravo wrote:
The_Abbott wrote:
LDS wrote:
Steve Davis' losses at the World Championship since his last victory:

Jimmy White - 1990
John Parrott - 1991
Peter Ebdon - 1992
Alan McManus - 1993
Stephen Hendry - 1994
Andy Hicks - 1995
Peter Ebdon - 1996
Ken Doherty - 1997
Mark Williams - 1998
Joe Perry - 1999
John Higgins - 2000
Andy Hicks - 2001
Robin Hull - 2002
Stephen Lee - 2003
Anthony Hamilton - 2004
Shaun Murphy - 2005
Shaun Murphy - 2006
John Parrott - 2007
Stuart Bingham - 2008
Neil Robertson - 2009
Neil Robertson - 2010
Stephen Lee - 2011
Ben Woolaston - 2012
Kurt Maflin - 2013
Craig Steadman - 2014
Fergal O'Brien - 2015
Fergal O'Brien - 2016

It's quite easy to see at what point he'd stop being competitive. He'd usually have to face a very serious competitor to go out, even when he was long past his best.

I don't think the current scene has quite the non-stop roll-call of new talent that the 90s and 00s had and that if that era had been any less packed with fresh competitive edge then he'd probably have won another title or two in those 2 decades.

This year has been very encouraging for newer faces and challengers and he certainly has strong opposition, but I don't think there's enough depth of field to make progress fully challenging every step of the way, meaning his main competition might get a bad session and go out before he meets them.


so really it was 2012 before he started losing to those he should be beating. Wasn't he aged around 52 at that point?

Andy Hicks - 1995


In his day Hicks was a fine player. A world semi finalist that was a tough draw for anyone.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Empire State Human » 15 May 2023 Read

Dragonfly wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
The_Abbott wrote:
LDS wrote:
Steve Davis' losses at the World Championship since his last victory:

Jimmy White - 1990
John Parrott - 1991
Peter Ebdon - 1992
Alan McManus - 1993
Stephen Hendry - 1994
Andy Hicks - 1995
Peter Ebdon - 1996
Ken Doherty - 1997
Mark Williams - 1998
Joe Perry - 1999
John Higgins - 2000
Andy Hicks - 2001
Robin Hull - 2002
Stephen Lee - 2003
Anthony Hamilton - 2004
Shaun Murphy - 2005
Shaun Murphy - 2006
John Parrott - 2007
Stuart Bingham - 2008
Neil Robertson - 2009
Neil Robertson - 2010
Stephen Lee - 2011
Ben Woolaston - 2012
Kurt Maflin - 2013
Craig Steadman - 2014
Fergal O'Brien - 2015
Fergal O'Brien - 2016

It's quite easy to see at what point he'd stop being competitive. He'd usually have to face a very serious competitor to go out, even when he was long past his best.

I don't think the current scene has quite the non-stop roll-call of new talent that the 90s and 00s had and that if that era had been any less packed with fresh competitive edge then he'd probably have won another title or two in those 2 decades.

This year has been very encouraging for newer faces and challengers and he certainly has strong opposition, but I don't think there's enough depth of field to make progress fully challenging every step of the way, meaning his main competition might get a bad session and go out before he meets them.


so really it was 2012 before he started losing to those he should be beating. Wasn't he aged around 52 at that point?

Andy Hicks - 1995


In his day Hicks was a fine player. A world semi finalist that was a tough draw for anyone.

Hicks was very effective in that period for a couple of years. Semi-finalist in the Worlds, UK, Masters and Grand Prix.

And Davis was still world number 2 at the time, so probably still a bit competitive.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Granite » 16 May 2023 Read

The_Abbott wrote:you don't wake up one day and your 40 and your eyes fall out and your limbs start drooping.

Things can deteriorate over time but you don't tend to lose the snooker brain which is important to Selby' style of play. He will be fine competing in his 40's

Someone like Judd is different as he relys more on his style of play which could get effected by older age.


Out of curiosity why would Judd suffer if O'Sullivan hasn't? They both rely on their attacking games.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby badtemperedcyril » 17 May 2023 Read

Iranu wrote:People think Judd’s technique will be detrimental to his longterm success.

I’m not sure I buy that either, actually.

Ronnie’s cue action is more solid and there’s less that can go wrong. Usually when Ronnie loses it’s because he’s not fully up for it. When Judd doesn’t get his timing just right his alignment goes awol and he can miss anything. In fairness, he has developed a shrewd tactical game which often buys him some time to play his way in to a game.

Re: Can Selby reach O'Sullivan's longevity in his 40s?

Postby Iranu » 17 May 2023 Read

badtemperedcyril wrote:
Iranu wrote:People think Judd’s technique will be detrimental to his longterm success.

I’m not sure I buy that either, actually.

Ronnie’s cue action is more solid and there’s less that can go wrong. Usually when Ronnie loses it’s because he’s not fully up for it. When Judd doesn’t get his timing just right his alignment goes awol and he can miss anything. In fairness, he has developed a shrewd tactical game which often buys him some time to play his way in to a game.

Yes I get that.

I don’t agree that that will necessarily lead to his technique deteriorating with age.
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