by Granite » 13 May 2023 Read
Got me thinking Mark Selby turns 40 this year and O'Sullivan is the benchmark for longevity, especially being highly successful in your 40s.
Having a quick look through, O'Sullivan has won 12 ranking events including 2 World Championships and 3 UK Championships. Along with a couple of Masters titles and other high profile non-rankers. This is pretty much an all-time great career just in your 40s.
So far Selby has shown good longevity from his first world final in 2007 to present, 16 years. But as Higgins and O'Sullivan has shown, those losses start to slowly creep up in world finals.
But can Selby produce a CV something similar to O'Sullivan's in his 40s? I thought his playing style wouldn't hold up given it's hard match snooker but it isn't the case.
-
Granite
- Posts: 299
- Joined: 04 May 2021
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby
- Highest Break: 34
by Juddernaut88 » 13 May 2023 Read
No
-
Juddernaut88
- Posts: 54534
- Joined: 27 February 2020
- Location: Coventry
- Snooker Idol: Hendry and Trump
- Highest Break: 30
- Walk-On: Simple Minds- Glittering Prize
-
by TheRocket » 13 May 2023 Read
Nope. The way he plays he relies on stamina and concentration more than any other player. Thats two things that disappear when you get older so he won't be able to outlast opponents.
-
TheRocket
- Posts: 16431
- Joined: 23 September 2012
- Snooker Idol: Federer-ROS-Messi
by Iranu » 13 May 2023 Read
I don’t think Selby’s game is anywhere near as draining to him as some assume.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41479
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by HappyCamper » 13 May 2023 Read
he could. but probably not, o'sullivan is somewhat uniquely brilliant.
-
HappyCamper
- Posts: 18808
- Joined: 05 November 2018
- Location: Edinburgh
- Snooker Idol: Graeme Dott
- Walk-On: Banana Chips by Shonen Knife
by Dragonfly » 13 May 2023 Read
Maybe not to the same extent as O'Sullivan, but there's plenty left in Selby yet. He's going to be a top top player for a long time yet.
-
Dragonfly
- Posts: 592
- Joined: 02 July 2020
by Holden Chinaski » 14 May 2023 Read
Iranu wrote:I don’t think Selby’s game is anywhere near as draining to him as some assume.
Indeed. He loves it.
-
Holden Chinaski
- Posts: 30215
- Joined: 26 July 2013
- Location: Belgium
- Snooker Idol: The Belgiums
- Walk-On: A little less conversation - Elvis
by RunningSide » 14 May 2023 Read
Increased my respect for Selby during world final,very little deliberate slow play and refreshing attitude to break building. Not sure if this was a change of mind set or respect for Luca’s outstanding performance, let's see what next tournament brings.
-
RunningSide
- Posts: 2087
- Joined: 19 September 2021
- Location: Sheffield
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie Mark Williams
- Highest Break: 79
- Walk-On: Anything by Cure.
by Holden Chinaski » 14 May 2023 Read
RunningSide wrote:Increased my respect for Selby during world final,very little deliberate slow play and refreshing attitude to break building. Not sure if this was a change of mind set or respect for Luca’s outstanding performance, let's see what next tournament brings.
Agreed.
-
Holden Chinaski
- Posts: 30215
- Joined: 26 July 2013
- Location: Belgium
- Snooker Idol: The Belgiums
- Walk-On: A little less conversation - Elvis
by Johnny Bravo » 14 May 2023 Read
Holden Chinaski wrote:Iranu wrote:I don’t think Selby’s game is anywhere near as draining to him as some assume.
Indeed. He loves it.
He might love it, but it takes too much concentration, and with age, it's gonna be hard to keep that up.
-
Johnny Bravo
- Posts: 7403
- Joined: 24 November 2016
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie O Sullivan
- Highest Break: 122
by Iranu » 14 May 2023 Read
Johnny Bravo wrote:Holden Chinaski wrote:Iranu wrote:I don’t think Selby’s game is anywhere near as draining to him as some assume.
Indeed. He loves it.
He might love it, but it takes too much concentration, and with age, it's gonna be hard to keep that up.
I doubt that very much.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41479
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by LC » 14 May 2023 Read
ROS mindset is to win as quickly as possible and you would think that is the way to go as you get older, so it would be harder for selby to keep battling thru long matches
-
LC
- Posts: 3202
- Joined: 03 March 2013
- Highest Break: 70
by SnookerFan » 15 May 2023 Read
A couple of years ago, we had a conversation on here about whether Selby would equal or break Hendry's record of seven World Titles. (This was before Ronnie equalled them.) I think Selby was on three at the time.
I said probably not, partly due to time not being on his side age-wise and partly due to, as said, he does play a high concentration game and I wondered if he'd still be willing or able to play that style as he got into his mid-to-late 40s.
Since I said that, however, he was won a fourth and reached a final again. He didn't beat Luca obviously, but that was more down to Brecel playing amazingly rather than any poor play from Selby.
I certainly think it's possible that Selby has another World Title or two in him. I stand by the ascertion that him getting to eight isn't possible. And probably seven is beyond him, though I might have amended that opinion if he'd won his fifth a few weeks ago.
It is worth noting, that Selby played fairly fast and attacking against Brecel. I'm not suggesting that he always plays like that. But it proves he can have a modicum of success playing that way, as well as his making the balls go scrappy and picking them off style. If anything, in the semi-final, you could argue that it was Allen that was playing the more traditional style than Selby himself.
-
SnookerFan
- Posts: 151044
- Joined: 13 December 2009
- Snooker Idol: Michaela Tabb
- Walk-On: Entry Of The Gladiators
-
by The_Abbott » 15 May 2023 Read
you don't wake up one day and your 40 and your eyes fall out and your limbs start drooping.
Things can deteriorate over time but you don't tend to lose the snooker brain which is important to Selby' style of play. He will be fine competing in his 40's
Someone like Judd is different as he relys more on his style of play which could get effected by older age.
-
The_Abbott
- Posts: 7121
- Joined: 03 May 2017
- Location: Monastery
- Snooker Idol: Retired Snooker Player
- Highest Break: 51
by SnookerFan » 15 May 2023 Read
Yes, it is a fair point that Selby won't lose the technical knowledge.
An attacking player might deteriorate more. Their eyes start going, making accuracy of pots more difficukt.
-
SnookerFan
- Posts: 151044
- Joined: 13 December 2009
- Snooker Idol: Michaela Tabb
- Walk-On: Entry Of The Gladiators
-
by Pink Ball » 15 May 2023 Read
Steve Davis was still one of the best safety players in the world up to the mid noughties. It was the other parts of his game that were letting him down.
-
Pink Ball
- Posts: 22339
- Joined: 07 April 2015
- Location: Galway city, Ireland
- Snooker Idol: You are a banker
- Walk-On: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkfgIUiCiUQ
by Iranu » 15 May 2023 Read
Pink Ball wrote:Steve Davis was still one of the best safety players in the world up to the mid noughties. It was the other parts of his game that were letting him down.
Yep. Plus players who hang on longer tend to do so by adapting to a safety-based game, compared to those who stubbornly remain attacking.
I also think we’re in an unprecedented era of snooker where age is having less of an effect on success than before. And not just with Ronnie.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41479
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by Holden Chinaski » 15 May 2023 Read
Iranu wrote:Pink Ball wrote:Steve Davis was still one of the best safety players in the world up to the mid noughties. It was the other parts of his game that were letting him down.
Yep. Plus players who hang on longer tend to do so by adapting to a safety-based game, compared to those who stubbornly remain attacking.
Indeed. It's the attacking players who have a hard time adapting when they get older. The eye sight gets worse and the long pots no longer go in. Selby, on the other hand, will not lose his tactical brain as he gets a bit older.
-
Holden Chinaski
- Posts: 30215
- Joined: 26 July 2013
- Location: Belgium
- Snooker Idol: The Belgiums
- Walk-On: A little less conversation - Elvis
by LDS » 15 May 2023 Read
Iranu wrote:Pink Ball wrote:Steve Davis was still one of the best safety players in the world up to the mid noughties. It was the other parts of his game that were letting him down.
Yep. Plus players who hang on longer tend to do so by adapting to a safety-based game, compared to those who stubbornly remain attacking.
I also think we’re in an unprecedented era of snooker where age is having less of an effect on success than before. And not just with Ronnie.
Steve Davis' losses at the World Championship since his last victory:
Jimmy White - 1990
John Parrott - 1991
Peter Ebdon - 1992
Alan McManus - 1993
Stephen Hendry - 1994
Andy Hicks - 1995
Peter Ebdon - 1996
Ken Doherty - 1997
Mark Williams - 1998
Joe Perry - 1999
John Higgins - 2000
Andy Hicks - 2001
Robin Hull - 2002
Stephen Lee - 2003
Anthony Hamilton - 2004
Shaun Murphy - 2005
Shaun Murphy - 2006
John Parrott - 2007
Stuart Bingham - 2008
Neil Robertson - 2009
Neil Robertson - 2010
Stephen Lee - 2011
Ben Woolaston - 2012
Kurt Maflin - 2013
Craig Steadman - 2014
Fergal O'Brien - 2015
Fergal O'Brien - 2016
It's quite easy to see at what point he'd stop being competitive. He'd usually have to face a very serious competitor to go out, even when he was long past his best.
I don't think the current scene has quite the non-stop roll-call of new talent that the 90s and 00s had and that if that era had been any less packed with fresh competitive edge then he'd probably have won another title or two in those 2 decades.
This year has been very encouraging for newer faces and challengers and he certainly has strong opposition, but I don't think there's enough depth of field to make progress fully challenging every step of the way, meaning his main competition might get a bad session and go out before he meets them.
-
LDS
- Posts: 11473
- Joined: 31 October 2020
- Snooker Idol: Ray Reardon
- Highest Break: 32
- Walk-On: Borderline https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZuhiwyyunw
by The_Abbott » 15 May 2023 Read
LDS wrote:Iranu wrote:Pink Ball wrote:Steve Davis was still one of the best safety players in the world up to the mid noughties. It was the other parts of his game that were letting him down.
Yep. Plus players who hang on longer tend to do so by adapting to a safety-based game, compared to those who stubbornly remain attacking.
I also think we’re in an unprecedented era of snooker where age is having less of an effect on success than before. And not just with Ronnie.
Steve Davis' losses at the World Championship since his last victory:
Jimmy White - 1990
John Parrott - 1991
Peter Ebdon - 1992
Alan McManus - 1993
Stephen Hendry - 1994
Andy Hicks - 1995
Peter Ebdon - 1996
Ken Doherty - 1997
Mark Williams - 1998
Joe Perry - 1999
John Higgins - 2000
Andy Hicks - 2001
Robin Hull - 2002
Stephen Lee - 2003
Anthony Hamilton - 2004
Shaun Murphy - 2005
Shaun Murphy - 2006
John Parrott - 2007
Stuart Bingham - 2008
Neil Robertson - 2009
Neil Robertson - 2010
Stephen Lee - 2011
Ben Woolaston - 2012
Kurt Maflin - 2013
Craig Steadman - 2014
Fergal O'Brien - 2015
Fergal O'Brien - 2016
It's quite easy to see at what point he'd stop being competitive. He'd usually have to face a very serious competitor to go out, even when he was long past his best.
I don't think the current scene has quite the non-stop roll-call of new talent that the 90s and 00s had and that if that era had been any less packed with fresh competitive edge then he'd probably have won another title or two in those 2 decades.
This year has been very encouraging for newer faces and challengers and he certainly has strong opposition, but I don't think there's enough depth of field to make progress fully challenging every step of the way, meaning his main competition might get a bad session and go out before he meets them.
so really it was 2012 before he started losing to those he should be beating. Wasn't he aged around 52 at that point?
-
The_Abbott
- Posts: 7121
- Joined: 03 May 2017
- Location: Monastery
- Snooker Idol: Retired Snooker Player
- Highest Break: 51
by Johnny Bravo » 15 May 2023 Read
The_Abbott wrote:LDS wrote:
Steve Davis' losses at the World Championship since his last victory:
Jimmy White - 1990
John Parrott - 1991
Peter Ebdon - 1992
Alan McManus - 1993
Stephen Hendry - 1994
Andy Hicks - 1995
Peter Ebdon - 1996
Ken Doherty - 1997
Mark Williams - 1998
Joe Perry - 1999
John Higgins - 2000
Andy Hicks - 2001
Robin Hull - 2002
Stephen Lee - 2003
Anthony Hamilton - 2004
Shaun Murphy - 2005
Shaun Murphy - 2006
John Parrott - 2007
Stuart Bingham - 2008
Neil Robertson - 2009
Neil Robertson - 2010
Stephen Lee - 2011
Ben Woolaston - 2012
Kurt Maflin - 2013
Craig Steadman - 2014
Fergal O'Brien - 2015
Fergal O'Brien - 2016
It's quite easy to see at what point he'd stop being competitive. He'd usually have to face a very serious competitor to go out, even when he was long past his best.
I don't think the current scene has quite the non-stop roll-call of new talent that the 90s and 00s had and that if that era had been any less packed with fresh competitive edge then he'd probably have won another title or two in those 2 decades.
This year has been very encouraging for newer faces and challengers and he certainly has strong opposition, but I don't think there's enough depth of field to make progress fully challenging every step of the way, meaning his main competition might get a bad session and go out before he meets them.
so really it was 2012 before he started losing to those he should be beating. Wasn't he aged around 52 at that point?
Andy Hicks - 1995
-
Johnny Bravo
- Posts: 7403
- Joined: 24 November 2016
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie O Sullivan
- Highest Break: 122
by Dragonfly » 15 May 2023 Read
Johnny Bravo wrote:The_Abbott wrote:LDS wrote:
Steve Davis' losses at the World Championship since his last victory:
Jimmy White - 1990
John Parrott - 1991
Peter Ebdon - 1992
Alan McManus - 1993
Stephen Hendry - 1994
Andy Hicks - 1995
Peter Ebdon - 1996
Ken Doherty - 1997
Mark Williams - 1998
Joe Perry - 1999
John Higgins - 2000
Andy Hicks - 2001
Robin Hull - 2002
Stephen Lee - 2003
Anthony Hamilton - 2004
Shaun Murphy - 2005
Shaun Murphy - 2006
John Parrott - 2007
Stuart Bingham - 2008
Neil Robertson - 2009
Neil Robertson - 2010
Stephen Lee - 2011
Ben Woolaston - 2012
Kurt Maflin - 2013
Craig Steadman - 2014
Fergal O'Brien - 2015
Fergal O'Brien - 2016
It's quite easy to see at what point he'd stop being competitive. He'd usually have to face a very serious competitor to go out, even when he was long past his best.
I don't think the current scene has quite the non-stop roll-call of new talent that the 90s and 00s had and that if that era had been any less packed with fresh competitive edge then he'd probably have won another title or two in those 2 decades.
This year has been very encouraging for newer faces and challengers and he certainly has strong opposition, but I don't think there's enough depth of field to make progress fully challenging every step of the way, meaning his main competition might get a bad session and go out before he meets them.
so really it was 2012 before he started losing to those he should be beating. Wasn't he aged around 52 at that point?
Andy Hicks - 1995
In his day Hicks was a fine player. A world semi finalist that was a tough draw for anyone.
-
Dragonfly
- Posts: 592
- Joined: 02 July 2020
by Empire State Human » 15 May 2023 Read
Dragonfly wrote:Johnny Bravo wrote:The_Abbott wrote:LDS wrote:
Steve Davis' losses at the World Championship since his last victory:
Jimmy White - 1990
John Parrott - 1991
Peter Ebdon - 1992
Alan McManus - 1993
Stephen Hendry - 1994
Andy Hicks - 1995
Peter Ebdon - 1996
Ken Doherty - 1997
Mark Williams - 1998
Joe Perry - 1999
John Higgins - 2000
Andy Hicks - 2001
Robin Hull - 2002
Stephen Lee - 2003
Anthony Hamilton - 2004
Shaun Murphy - 2005
Shaun Murphy - 2006
John Parrott - 2007
Stuart Bingham - 2008
Neil Robertson - 2009
Neil Robertson - 2010
Stephen Lee - 2011
Ben Woolaston - 2012
Kurt Maflin - 2013
Craig Steadman - 2014
Fergal O'Brien - 2015
Fergal O'Brien - 2016
It's quite easy to see at what point he'd stop being competitive. He'd usually have to face a very serious competitor to go out, even when he was long past his best.
I don't think the current scene has quite the non-stop roll-call of new talent that the 90s and 00s had and that if that era had been any less packed with fresh competitive edge then he'd probably have won another title or two in those 2 decades.
This year has been very encouraging for newer faces and challengers and he certainly has strong opposition, but I don't think there's enough depth of field to make progress fully challenging every step of the way, meaning his main competition might get a bad session and go out before he meets them.
so really it was 2012 before he started losing to those he should be beating. Wasn't he aged around 52 at that point?
Andy Hicks - 1995
In his day Hicks was a fine player. A world semi finalist that was a tough draw for anyone.
Hicks was very effective in that period for a couple of years. Semi-finalist in the Worlds, UK, Masters and Grand Prix.
And Davis was still world number 2 at the time, so probably still a bit competitive.
-
Empire State Human
- Posts: 1162
- Joined: 09 March 2019
- Snooker Idol: Trump Higgins Dott Fu
- Highest Break: 2
by Granite » 16 May 2023 Read
The_Abbott wrote:you don't wake up one day and your 40 and your eyes fall out and your limbs start drooping.
Things can deteriorate over time but you don't tend to lose the snooker brain which is important to Selby' style of play. He will be fine competing in his 40's
Someone like Judd is different as he relys more on his style of play which could get effected by older age.
Out of curiosity why would Judd suffer if O'Sullivan hasn't? They both rely on their attacking games.
-
Granite
- Posts: 299
- Joined: 04 May 2021
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby
- Highest Break: 34
by Iranu » 16 May 2023 Read
People think Judd’s technique will be detrimental to his longterm success.
I’m not sure I buy that either, actually.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41479
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by Holden Chinaski » 16 May 2023 Read
You can't compare Ronnie to any other player. He's one of a kind.
-
Holden Chinaski
- Posts: 30215
- Joined: 26 July 2013
- Location: Belgium
- Snooker Idol: The Belgiums
- Walk-On: A little less conversation - Elvis
by badtemperedcyril » 17 May 2023 Read
Iranu wrote:People think Judd’s technique will be detrimental to his longterm success.
I’m not sure I buy that either, actually.
Ronnie’s cue action is more solid and there’s less that can go wrong. Usually when Ronnie loses it’s because he’s not fully up for it. When Judd doesn’t get his timing just right his alignment goes awol and he can miss anything. In fairness, he has developed a shrewd tactical game which often buys him some time to play his way in to a game.
-
badtemperedcyril
- Posts: 3241
- Joined: 11 August 2020
- Snooker Idol: Jackie Rea
- Walk-On: Sherry
-
by Iranu » 17 May 2023 Read
badtemperedcyril wrote:Iranu wrote:People think Judd’s technique will be detrimental to his longterm success.
I’m not sure I buy that either, actually.
Ronnie’s cue action is more solid and there’s less that can go wrong. Usually when Ronnie loses it’s because he’s not fully up for it. When Judd doesn’t get his timing just right his alignment goes awol and he can miss anything. In fairness, he has developed a shrewd tactical game which often buys him some time to play his way in to a game.
Yes I get that.
I don’t agree that that will necessarily lead to his technique deteriorating with age.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41479
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds