Who do you rate as the greater player?

Juddernaut88 wrote:

TheRocket wrote:I watched that match and especially the final session on a few occasions. Ronnie played around 4 hit and hope shots in the final session and only once he actually got away with it. Which was in the decider on the final red but even then he didnt really get away with it because Selby played a good shot and still snookered him. Ronnie then played the excellent two cushion escape and the rest is history. Also from 14:16 down he made a century, a 70 odd and 60 odd break.

Selbys biggest mistake was when he was 13:9 up and wasted around 3 or 4 chances to make it 14:9. Ronnie made a similar mistake in 2014 when he didnt take the chance to gain a bigger lead.

I don't recall Ronnie playing a hit and hope shot in the decider but I could be wrong. I remember him doing it a few times in earlier frames. In the decider I remember it being a good safety battle on the final red and Ronnie made a pretty good escape and then played a good snooker which resulted in him winning the frame.
I completely agree though that Selby had some good chances to go 14-9 up and when Ronnie got it back to 13-11 it was pretty much game on.
It's a match that could have gone either way but Ronnie played very well in the last 3 frames and he deserved the win.

Holden Chinaski wrote:Selby got his bottom handed to him by Ronnie in that match.

SnookerFan wrote:Joe Davis is the GOAT.

15 > 7.

Cloud Strife wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:Joe Davis is the GOAT.

15 > 7.

Rafael Nadal is the GOAT.

21 > 15

TheRocket wrote:If ROS had lost to Selby in 2020 he would have been finished at the Crucible imo and stuck on 5 forever. But the snooker gods did what they thought would be right and I'm glad it turned out that way.

7 World titles should be the minimum for a player of ROS calibre while Selby is a very firm All-Time Great just like Higgins or Williams are but all three are a tier below the ROS/Hendry tier.

badtemperedcyril wrote:Jimmy weren’t off his tits in the 90’s, he’d pretty much cleaned up by then. The period between 84 and 89 was when he was really smashing it.

TheRocket wrote:I watched that match and especially the final session on a few occasions. Ronnie played around 4 hit and hope shots in the final session and only once he actually got away with it. Which was in the decider on the final red but even then he didnt really get away with it because Selby played a good shot and still snookered him. Ronnie then played the excellent two cushion escape and the rest is history. Also from 14:16 down he made a century, a 70 odd and 60 odd break.

Selbys biggest mistake was when he was 13:9 up and wasted around 3 or 4 chances to make it 14:9. Ronnie made a similar mistake in 2014 when he didnt take the chance to gain a bigger lead.

badtemperedcyril wrote:"Trailing 16-14, taking indiscriminate swipes when escaping from snookers and playing as though it was an exhibition"

Senior Eurosport Commentator and Snooker Scene Chief Reporter

Pink Ball wrote:Given the context, O'Sullivan was ridiculously brilliant in the last three frames of that Selby match.

lhpirnie wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:Given the context, O'Sullivan was ridiculously brilliant in the last three frames of that Selby match.

He was, but actually Selby missed quite a straightforward chance to win on the colours in the final frame. There's too much mythology attached to that match, and it was only 2 years ago!

For me, I do think Ronnie has raised the bar, i.e. a stronger player than his predecessors. I hope I live long enough to see someone come along and raise the bar still higher, as will surely happen sometime.

TheRocket wrote:

lhpirnie wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:Given the context, O'Sullivan was ridiculously brilliant in the last three frames of that Selby match.

He was, but actually Selby missed quite a straightforward chance to win on the colours in the final frame. There's too much mythology attached to that match, and it was only 2 years ago!

For me, I do think Ronnie has raised the bar, i.e. a stronger player than his predecessors. I hope I live long enough to see someone come along and raise the bar still higher, as will surely happen sometime.

I'm not so sure. I think one reason the Class of 92, particularly Ronnie is still doing so well is because they probably play as good as it gets for humankind. There are limits for humans. Can you see someone in Tennis reaching a higher level than Federer, Nadal, Djokovic? I dont think so.

You will have the odd freak performance though like from Judd in the 2019 World final.

mick745 wrote:

TheRocket wrote:

lhpirnie wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:Given the context, O'Sullivan was ridiculously brilliant in the last three frames of that Selby match.

He was, but actually Selby missed quite a straightforward chance to win on the colours in the final frame. There's too much mythology attached to that match, and it was only 2 years ago!

For me, I do think Ronnie has raised the bar, i.e. a stronger player than his predecessors. I hope I live long enough to see someone come along and raise the bar still higher, as will surely happen sometime.

I'm not so sure. I think one reason the Class of 92, particularly Ronnie is still doing so well is because they probably play as good as it gets for humankind. There are limits for humans. Can you see someone in Tennis reaching a higher level than Federer, Nadal, Djokovic? I dont think so.

You will have the odd freak performance though like from Judd in the 2019 World final.

I believe it will happen. Maybe not for a few decades, or maybe quite quickly but somebody in the future will raise the bar higher. Ronnie's standard can be bettered there is no doubt. There were probably people thinking Joe Davis's standard would never be bettered, and it wasnt for a long while afterwards as the game declined.

lhpirnie wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:Given the context, O'Sullivan was ridiculously brilliant in the last three frames of that Selby match.

He was, but actually Selby missed quite a straightforward chance to win on the colours in the final frame. There's too much mythology attached to that match, and it was only 2 years ago!

For me, I do think Ronnie has raised the bar, i.e. a stronger player than his predecessors. I hope I live long enough to see someone come along and raise the bar still higher, as will surely happen sometime.

Dan-cat wrote:

badtemperedcyril wrote:"Trailing 16-14, taking indiscriminate swipes when escaping from snookers and playing as though it was an exhibition"

Senior Eurosport Commentator and Snooker Scene Chief Reporter

Just not true.

Ronnie spoke about it afterwards saying ‘I could have played just to roll up, but this would have allowed Selby to put me in another possibly worse snooker.’ The hit and hope was strategy, and I’ve since seen other players do it more often.

Iranu wrote:

TheRocket wrote:Joe Davis was always gonna be bettered because he still played in the early days of Snooker. He was like the first greatest player. Like Rod Laver maybe. And if you're the very first in something you will get surpassed eventually.
I cant rule it out that someone will better Ronnies standard but it will be tough.

I think it will be a Chinese supertalent if it happens.

Don’t forget, if we think about it Ronnie is also playing in the early days of snooker on a wide scale. He turned pro like a year (?) after the game went open and it’s only just starting to become anything resembling a truly international sport.

Iranu wrote:

TheRocket wrote:He turned pro in 92 but reached his true peak only from the 00's on. He also had Steve Davis and Hendry as a benchmark. And another thing that worked in his advantage is that he had an incredible main rival with Higgins who pushed him to the limit. And he obviously played Hendry a lot of times as well in the first half of his career.

I think thats what the new guy who is supposed to raise the bar even higher needs as well. He will have Ronnie as his benchmark but he needs 2-3 rivals who also push him to the limit.

Yeah but I’m saying snooker is still pretty young as an open sport and even younger as an international sport. So there’s a lot of potential still to be reached.

I think it’s not just likely but inevitable. It happens all the time in sport and people always think that x player is the pinnacle - until someone new comes along. We’ve already seen it happen with snooker.