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General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby LDS

Some head-to-head snooker pairings seem to always be popping up in major snooker tournaments, as you would expect when the top seeds should have regular meetings at the business end of tournaments. It seems like common sense.

However, some players just never meet with any regularity, even though, on paper, you'd expect it at least once or twice a year.

I suspect the most famous one currently would be Judd Trump versus Mark Selby, two players who have competed for the No.1 ranking spot for nearly a decade. But they are no Reardon versus Spencer or Davis versus White or Higgins versus O'Sullivan.

While they have met professionally 32 times since 2008, the vast majority of those encounters have been minor ranking tournaments, various league based tournaments and snooker etcetera. Let's look at their 'more important' meetings:

2011 - China Open final, Trump won 10-8
2019 - International Championship Semi Final, Trump won 9-4

And both of those were in China.

The next most important meetings include non-ranking events:

2014 - Champion of Champions Quarter Final, Trump won 6-1
2015 - German Masters Quarter Final, Selby won 5-4
2016 - European Masters Semi Final, Trump won 6-2
2019 - Masters Quarter Final, Trump won 6-2
2019 - World Grand Prix Quarter Final, Trump won 5-1

And that's it really. 4 times they met at the early stages of tournaments during 2013 and before, 19 times they've met in various leagues, once at the Six Reds and once at the late stages of a PTC event in 2011.

Slightly lower down the rankings you can find an even weirder unexcused absence between Tom Ford and Michael Holt, two players who seem destined to not only be the fascination of a certain commentator but also seem to have almost identical careers at the same time as each other.

You'd think these two would meet a few times a year. But no. They have only met professionally three times, the last time being a last 32 way back in 2015, and that was a minor ranking PTC event.

Before that and we're talking a last 128 in 2010 and a last 48 in 2007. And that's it.


What are some surprisingly non-existent head to heads that you find weird and unusual by their absence?

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby Empire State Human

I think someone mentioned in another thread that Ronnie O'Sullivan and Lee Walker have never played, despite being pros for ~30 years.

A few I found (excluding Championship League):

Jack Lisowski v Mark King - met just once - 2017 Gilbratar Open - 4-2 to Lisowski.

Neil Robertson v Luca Brecel (3)
NR 10-7 LB - China Open 2019
NR 6-2 LB - Players Championship 2018
NR 4-0 LB - World Grand Prix 2015

Ronnie O'Sullivan v Luca Brecel (3)
ROS 5-1 LB - English Open 2021
LB 5-4 ROS - China Championship 2017 (Brecel won the tournament)
ROS 5-1 LB - China Open 2015

Anthony Hamilton v Barry Hawkins (3)
AH 5-4 BH - German Masters 2017 (Hamilton won the tournament)
BH 6-5 AH - NI Open 2016
BH 10-5 AH - World Championship 2011

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby vodkadiet1

There may be situations where a player deliberately loses to avoid playing another player in the next round. Maybe they are rivals and one player doesn't feel like he is playing well enough to beat them and doesn't want to give them a mental edge, or a player just doesn't want to play a certain player for whatever reason.

Other than that these anomalies will always come up because of the law of random chance. I remmeber Boris Becker played an opponent 4 times in 5 weeks having only played him once in about 4 years on the tennis circuit together. The same could happen with Trump and Selby soon.

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby Holden Chinaski

vodkadiet1 wrote:There may be situations where a player deliberately loses to avoid playing another player in the next round. Maybe they are rivals and one player doesn't feel like he is playing well enough to beat them and doesn't want to give them a mental edge, or a player just doesn't want to play a certain player for whatever reason.
.

I really don't think this ever happens.

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby vodkadiet1

Holden Chinaski wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:There may be situations where a player deliberately loses to avoid playing another player in the next round. Maybe they are rivals and one player doesn't feel like he is playing well enough to beat them and doesn't want to give them a mental edge, or a player just doesn't want to play a certain player for whatever reason.
.

I really don't think this ever happens.


I know someone who did it in a high level of amateur tennis. He was struggling to beat someone he should beat, and knew his next opponent was a main rival, and he told me he was going to lose the match becauae he wasn't ready for the guy in the next round and didn't want him gaining a psychological advantage. And subsequently lost accidentally on purpose!
Last edited by vodkadiet1 on 20 Dec 2021, edited 1 time in total.

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby vodkadiet1

TheRocket wrote:Yeah I think in Tennis that happens occasionally. I think there were even 2-3 matches when I thought Fed or Nadal were losing on purpose to avoid the other guy in the next match


Nadal goes one better. He always get injured at the same times of the year so as to avoid a series of defeats by lower ranked players.

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby mick745

I dont believe a snooker player tries to lose to avoid any one in the draw, losing out on an extra round's worth of prize money and ranking points, and who knows if x player may have an off day when you play them anyway.

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby Holden Chinaski

mick745 wrote:I dont believe a snooker player tries to lose to avoid any one in the draw, losing out on an extra round's worth of prize money and ranking points, and who knows if x player may have an off day when you play them anyway.

It's a ridiculous idea. The ramblings of a madman.

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby SnookerEd25

Holden Chinaski wrote:
mick745 wrote:I dont believe a snooker player tries to lose to avoid any one in the draw, losing out on an extra round's worth of prize money and ranking points, and who knows if x player may have an off day when you play them anyway.

It's a ridiculous idea. The ramblings of a madman.


On an Internet forum? :shock:

Say it ain’t so :sad:

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby gninnur karona

Jack Lisowski and Ronnie O'Sullivan have only met on three occasions in total even though so far this season they have been seeded to play each other in the last 16 of four ranking events. Fourth time lucky at the European Masters?

Meanwhile Jack Lisowski and Judd Trump have met on 19 occasions, 16 times in events awarding ranking points.

Baffling.

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby vodkadiet1

mick745 wrote:I dont believe a snooker player tries to lose to avoid any one in the draw, losing out on an extra round's worth of prize money and ranking points, and who knows if x player may have an off day when you play them anyway.


Of course if happens. They aren't going to advertise it. It probably happens in every tournament.

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby Iranu

vodkadiet1 wrote:
mick745 wrote:I dont believe a snooker player tries to lose to avoid any one in the draw, losing out on an extra round's worth of prize money and ranking points, and who knows if x player may have an off day when you play them anyway.


Of course if happens. They aren't going to advertise it. It probably happens in every tournament.

You are bucking deranged

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby vodkadiet1

Players are on the road for quite a while and it is only natural that occasionally they want to lose to go home or go on holiday. Sometimes it may be deliberate but on most occasions it will just be a half hearted effort and defeat follows.

Re: General Avoidance & Strangers Passing in the Night

Postby LDS

Here's another weird one.

I was sitting here trying to think of the last time I saw Barry Hawkins play Stephen Maguire. And I couldn't think of any occasion.

Both are remarkably similar players who have been at the top of the game for a very long time and are of pretty much the same age, but let's take a look at their more important meetings since they first competed against each other at the 2000 Merseyside professional last 64.

The last 20+ years has produced:

2017 World Snooker Championship Quarter Final.

And that's it as far as any competitive match between the two beyond the last 16 of any tournament excluding leagues, shootouts and etc.

The have met an incredible 5 times at the China Open, but always at the last 16 or 32 phase. 2008, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2015
4 times at the Shanghai Masters, but always at the last 16 or 32 phase. 2008, 2009, 2016, 2018
Once at the Indian Open in 2016, last 16.
Once at the Player's Tour Championship Grand Final (which was originally planned to be played in Thailand) in 2014, last 32.

Leaving their only UK matches being the previously mentioned WSC QF and:

2011 World Championship, last 32
2010 Welsh Open, last 16.