prime Hendry vs prime Trump

90's Hendry vs Trump since 2019.

They would obviously meet in so many big matches. Who would have the upper hand and beat the other guy more?

Pretty even.

I voted pretty even.

Prime Hendry. He was insane.

Trump by a country mile.
He matches Hendry in the scoring department, and he totally dominates him in the tactical and safety battles.

Holden Chinaski wrote:Prime Hendry. He was insane.

An insane WEAK era bully

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:Prime Hendry. He was insane.

An insane WEAK era bully

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:Prime Hendry. He was insane.

An insane WEAK era bully

That's a FACT, whether you like it or not.

Hendry won as many world titles with the CO92 coming into their prime as Judd has with them in their mid-40s.

Hendry. It’s not a huge gulf. But it’s definitely Hendry.

Prop wrote:Hendry. It’s not a huge gulf. But it’s definitely Hendry.

Can you people give a reasonable reason as to why ?!??
That's the problem in today's world, too many people pick some old timers out of nostalgia, when all evidence points otherwise. Boxing is the best example of this.
So again, what makes you think Hendry will win ???

If we objectively break their games them down, we can see that there's no domain where Hendry is in front:

potting: pretty even
long potting: IMO clearly Judd, but for the sake of the argument, let's say it's even
safety: Judd by a country mile
tactical: again, Judd

So, what exactly does Hendry bring to the table that can compensate for the fact that he's objectively a weaker player ?!???

Prime Hendry was the best long potter we have ever seen, and he was the best at getting position on the black or pink from that long pot. He also had unbelievable bottle. Under pressure he became even better. He was very special. A real winner. And what a break builder!

Holden Chinaski wrote:Prime Hendry was the best long potter we have ever seen

Keep on dreaming.
Trump and Robbo are way better than him at long pots.

Holden Chinaski wrote: and he was the best at getting position on the black or pink from that long pot.

That depends on the angle of the shot. Plus, the cloths were slightly thicker back then, which makes holding the cueball in the pink and black area easier.

To be fair Judd plays for black a lot more than he used to.

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Prop wrote:Hendry. It’s not a huge gulf. But it’s definitely Hendry.

Can you people give a reasonable reason as to why ?!??
That's the problem in today's world, too many people pick some old timers out of nostalgia, when all evidence points otherwise. Boxing is the best example of this.
So again, what makes you think Hendry will win ???

If we objectively break their games them down, we can see that there's no domain where Hendry is in front:

potting: pretty even
long potting: IMO clearly Judd, but for the sake of the argument, let's say it's even
safety: Judd by a country mile
tactical: again, Judd

So, what exactly does Hendry bring to the table that can compensate for the fact that he's objectively a weaker player ?!???

Yeah, sure. Hendry was more deadly. He had a killer mindset, at all times. He never once doubted himself. I’ve seen Hendry step up to do-or-die situations and dispatch them like it didn’t even bother him, countless times over his career.

The technical stats you listed, they’re both pretty close between the two players for me. But Hendry wasn’t as bad at safety as people say he was. And besides, he didn’t need to revert to safety all that often, because he really was that good.

The difference - and remember I said it wasn’t a huge gulf - is in the stats you can’t measure with numbers. It’s what he had between his ears. He was absolutely ruthless. Ice cold. He had opponents beaten before a match had begun. It’s something you’re born with that I simply do not see in Judd.

I voted pretty even.

These sort of debates are interesting but pretty unwinnable.

What was Judd's best performance - 2019 WC final?

what was Stephen's?

Badsnookerplayer wrote:I voted pretty even.

These sort of debates are interesting but pretty unwinnable.

What was Judd's best performance - 2019 WC final?

what was Stephen's?

Must be many. Like 1993 World final, 1994 UK final, 1999 World semis.

But thats why I didnt make it a peak vs peak debate because that would be pointless. In a single match anyone can beat anyone. Its over the course of a longer period when you have two great players who are both in their prime like 90's Hendry and todays Trump who both get to finals all the time but they also both stand in each others way.

Who would have the upper hand, beat the other guy more and thus have more success in the game.

Hendry.

Johnny Bravo wrote:Trump by a country mile.
He matches Hendry in the scoring department, and he totally dominates him in the tactical and safety battles.

You idiot.

TheRocket wrote:

Badsnookerplayer wrote:I voted pretty even.

These sort of debates are interesting but pretty unwinnable.

What was Judd's best performance - 2019 WC final?

what was Stephen's?

Must be many. Like 1993 World final, 1994 UK final, 1999 World semis.

But thats why I didnt make it a peak vs peak debate because that would be pointless. In a single match anyone can beat anyone. Its over the course of a longer period when you have two great players who are both in their prime like 90's Hendry and todays Trump who both get to finals all the time but they also both stand in each others way.

Who would have the upper hand, beat the other guy more and thus have more success in the game.

Apologies TR - my misunderstanding.

I think pretty even anyway.

sas6789 wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:Trump by a country mile.
He matches Hendry in the scoring department, and he totally dominates him in the tactical and safety battles.

You idiot.

You're the idiot and a blind fanboy

Badsnookerplayer wrote:I voted pretty even.

These sort of debates are interesting but pretty unwinnable.

What was Judd's best performance - 2019 WC final?

what was Stephen's?

94 UK final

Prop wrote: Hendry was more deadly. He had a killer mindset, at all times. He never once doubted himself. I’ve seen Hendry step up to do-or-die situations and dispatch them like it didn’t even bother him, countless times over his career.

It’s what he had between his ears. He was absolutely ruthless. Ice cold. He had opponents beaten before a match had begun. It’s something you’re born with that I simply do not see in Judd.

Prop wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Prop wrote:Hendry. It’s not a huge gulf. But it’s definitely Hendry.

Can you people give a reasonable reason as to why ?!??
That's the problem in today's world, too many people pick some old timers out of nostalgia, when all evidence points otherwise. Boxing is the best example of this.
So again, what makes you think Hendry will win ???

If we objectively break their games them down, we can see that there's no domain where Hendry is in front:

potting: pretty even
long potting: IMO clearly Judd, but for the sake of the argument, let's say it's even
safety: Judd by a country mile
tactical: again, Judd

So, what exactly does Hendry bring to the table that can compensate for the fact that he's objectively a weaker player ?!???

Yeah, sure. Hendry was more deadly. He had a killer mindset, at all times. He never once doubted himself. I’ve seen Hendry step up to do-or-die situations and dispatch them like it didn’t even bother him, countless times over his career.

The technical stats you listed, they’re both pretty close between the two players for me. But Hendry wasn’t as bad at safety as people say he was. And besides, he didn’t need to revert to safety all that often, because he really was that good.

The difference - and remember I said it wasn’t a huge gulf - is in the stats you can’t measure with numbers. It’s what he had between his ears. He was absolutely ruthless. Ice cold. He had opponents beaten before a match had begun. It’s something you’re born with that I simply do not see in Judd.

It's easy to be confident when your opposition is weaker than you.
Hendry wasn't ice cold anymore when he was getting beat in the late 90s and early 00s.
One good example is the Masters final against Williams in 98.

Are there any statistics for number of centuries Vs number of frames played?

For example, Hendry made 54 centuries in the 1990-1991 season, and Trump makes around 90-100 centuries per season now. But there were not as many tournaments when Hendry was at his peak.

So I think number of centuries Vs number of frames played would give us a better idea of who was the heaviest scorer.

Yanfan wrote:Are there any statistics for number of centuries Vs number of frames played?

For example, Hendry made 54 centuries in the 1990-1991 season, and Trump makes around 90-100 centuries per season now. But there were not as many tournaments when Hendry was at his peak.

So I think number of centuries Vs number of frames played would give us a better idea of who was the heaviest scorer.

Yep. Here’s Hendry

https://cuetracker.net/players/stephen- ... statistics

And Judd

https://cuetracker.net/players/judd-tru ... statistics

If you scroll down there’s Century Frequency and a Centuries Per Season graph.

Edit: Actually the info in those links doesn’t really answer the question. I’ll keep looking

Right, according to Cuetracker stats, and assuming my maths is correct:

Hendry

11778 frames played
774 centuries
1 century every 15.2 frames

Judd

8395 frames played
816 centuries
1 century every 10.2 frames

Prop wrote:Right, according to Cuetracker stats, and assuming my maths is correct:

Hendry

11778 frames played
774 Centuries
1 century every 15.2 frames

Judd

8395 frames played
816
1 century every 10.2 frames

It is correct! If you do a Head to Head on CueTracker, this info comes up automatically (to two decimal places no less!):

https://cuetracker.net/head-to-head/ste ... judd-trump

Ronnie is on 10.7

Actually Judd having the strongest century to frame rate rings a bell. Pretty sure there’s a thread on this somewhere.