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Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby SnookerFan

Finally some good news. rofl

https://theoldgreenbaize.com/2021/10/08 ... ssion=true

Can't say I'll miss him. Back when Eurosport first started doing studio analysis, I was more critical of Murray than Goldstein. But I had grown used to Murray and was legitimately upset when he announced he'd not be doing it any more. Goldstein still ain't great, if we're honest.

Wonder who'll take over.

Bring back Matt Smith. rofl


Ps. I like the way he's been reported as an MBE. He's not really an MBE. That's just a joke on his Twitter feed, isn't it?

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby lhpirnie

Yes I'm not a fan of Goldstein. He described most Chinese players as "robotic" and wasn't prepared to interview them.

But, before we speak too soon, maybe he's going to take a lead commentating role for the BBC?

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby Iranu

lhpirnie wrote:Yes I'm not a fan of Goldstein. He described most Chinese players as "robotic" and wasn't prepared to interview them.

Describing Chinese players as robotic is a big pet peeve of mine. It’s demonstrably untrue and is just the old “inscrutable Chinese”’racism.

To be fair to Goldstein regarding interviews, it’s not a presenter’s choice who they interview I’d have thought, that’ll be down to the producers etc. And what Goldstein said was that the Chinese players hadn’t wanted to do an interview because their English wasn’t strong enough (I think their manager/translator might have been stuck in China because of Covid but I’m not sure on that.) He’s never said he’s not prepared to interview Chinese players as far as I’m aware.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby SnookerFan

lhpirnie wrote:Yes I'm not a fan of Goldstein. He described most Chinese players as "robotic" and wasn't prepared to interview them.

But, before we speak too soon, maybe he's going to take a lead commentating role for the BBC?


Ironically sending most fans to Eurosport.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby lhpirnie

Iranu wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:Yes I'm not a fan of Goldstein. He described most Chinese players as "robotic" and wasn't prepared to interview them.

Describing Chinese players as robotic is a big pet peeve of mine. It’s demonstrably untrue and is just the old “inscrutable Chinese”’racism.

To be fair to Goldstein regarding interviews, it’s not a presenter’s choice who they interview I’d have thought, that’ll be down to the producers etc. And what Goldstein said was that the Chinese players hadn’t wanted to do an interview because their English wasn’t strong enough (I think their manager/translator might have been stuck in China because of Covid but I’m not sure on that.) He’s never said he’s not prepared to interview Chinese players as far as I’m aware.

The situation I'm referring to was with Li Hang in the Scottish Open, after Li beat Judd Trump. Yes it's possible the director made the call, but from Goldstein's remark it's clear that Li wasn't asked. I have spoken to Li Hang and his English is good enough, although maybe not for ES's exalted standards... OK, I'll give Goldstein the benefit of the doubt on that, but he certainly could have phrased it less abruptly. But in general, presenters should be trained to handle such interviews and be keen to do them, even if they have to persuade their director that they have the necessary skills.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby lhpirnie

SnookerFan wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:Yes I'm not a fan of Goldstein. He described most Chinese players as "robotic" and wasn't prepared to interview them.

But, before we speak too soon, maybe he's going to take a lead commentating role for the BBC?


Ironically sending most fans to Eurosport.

All part of a master plan by ES!


But I guess the BBC have to find a replacement for Hazel Irvine. But if I was a betting man (I'm not), I would back a woman for the job...

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby SnookerFan

lhpirnie wrote:But I guess the BBC have to find a replacement for Hazel Irvine. But if I was a betting man (I'm not), I would back a woman for the job...


Jill Douglas is waiting by the phone.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby Iranu

lhpirnie wrote:The situation I'm referring to was with Li Hang in the Scottish Open, after Li beat Judd Trump. Yes it's possible the director made the call, but from Goldstein's remark it's clear that Li wasn't asked. I have spoken to Li Hang and his English is good enough, although maybe not for ES's exalted standards... OK, I'll give Goldstein the benefit of the doubt on that, but he certainly could have phrased it less abruptly. But in general, presenters should be trained to handle such interviews and be keen to do them, even if they have to persuade their director that they have the necessary skills.

No, It wasn’t clear. And we had this conversation back in December:

viewtopic.php?f=691&t=10687&p=798010&hilit=English#p798010

And back then you even said yourself that they hadn’t made it clear whose decision it was.

Given that you think his English is fine, it makes more sense that it’s a confidence issue on his part than an institutional vendetta against Chinese players.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby Iranu

They should get Seema in. She’s got the chops and it would be a good way for her to learn the game more quickly for when she covers BBC events.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby lhpirnie

Iranu wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:The situation I'm referring to was with Li Hang in the Scottish Open, after Li beat Judd Trump. Yes it's possible the director made the call, but from Goldstein's remark it's clear that Li wasn't asked. I have spoken to Li Hang and his English is good enough, although maybe not for ES's exalted standards... OK, I'll give Goldstein the benefit of the doubt on that, but he certainly could have phrased it less abruptly. But in general, presenters should be trained to handle such interviews and be keen to do them, even if they have to persuade their director that they have the necessary skills.

No, It wasn’t clear. And we had this conversation back in December:

viewtopic.php?f=691&t=10687&p=798010&hilit=English#p798010

And back then you even said yourself that they hadn’t made it clear whose decision it was.

Given that you think his English is fine, it makes more sense that it’s a confidence issue on his part than an institutional vendetta against Chinese players.

Yes, I do think that Goldstein should have explained that better than saying "we're not interviewing Li Hang because his English isn't good enough". That makes it look like an editorial decision, but I think Goldstein as the presenter should take responsibility for explaining their rationale.


What I think the problem is with this is that broadcasters do get negative comments (and downvotes on twitter) when they interview foreigners. It seems like their response it too frequently to avoid the issue by not interviewing them, which I think is shameful. Even if they had problems with language, they should find a way, if necessary via a Zoom interpreter (the interviews were indeed conducted remotely in December). I don't believe that the media has any vendetta, but I do think they are bowing to pressure. I would like them to be a bit stronger, and fairer.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby SnookerFan

Iranu wrote:They should get Seema in. She’s got the chops and it would be a good way for her to learn the game more quickly for when she covers BBC events.


I wouldn't complain.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby lhpirnie

Iranu wrote:They should get Seema in. She’s got the chops and it would be a good way for her to learn the game more quickly for when she covers BBC events.

Yes, that would seem consistent. They brought her in, they should help her development. I do think part of the BBC's role should be to develop talent, rather than fall back on 'proven' presenters, who may have inflated salaries.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby Iranu

lhpirnie wrote:Yes, I do think that Goldstein should have explained that better than saying "we're not interviewing Li Hang because his English isn't good enough". That makes it look like an editorial decision, but I think Goldstein as the presenter should take responsibility for explaining their rationale.


What I think the problem is with this is that broadcasters do get negative comments (and downvotes on twitter) when they interview foreigners. It seems like their response it too frequently to avoid the issue by not interviewing them, which I think is shameful. Even if they had problems with language, they should find a way, if necessary via a Zoom interpreter (the interviews were indeed conducted remotely in December). I don't believe that the media has any vendetta, but I do think they are bowing to pressure. I would like them to be a bit stronger, and fairer.

If you thought it wasn’t clear at the time I’m not sure why you said today that it was clear. I have no affection for Goldstein but it’s not fair to pretend that they obviously decided not to interview Chinese players when it’s not obvious at all.

I’ve gone back and reviewed the post-match on ES Player, and Goldstein doesn’t mention anything until a few minutes into the chat with Jimmy, which to me suggests that they were waiting to see whether Li wanted to be interviewed. If it was their decision you’d expect them to say it straight away. Just my feeling, though. What he actually says is, “Sadly Li won’t be coming in for an interview because his English isn’t strong enough” which doesn’t suggest anything one way or the other.

The thing is, Chinese players weren’t being snubbed for interviews until Covid happened so it seems likely that’s the cause and that there’s still a hangover from that at the moment (I mean there’s only been two tournaments). I think a Zoom interpreter would have made interviews very cumbersome. I am a bit surprised they didn’t just hire someone to act as interpreter, though.

What you’re saying is just conjecture, and you’re annoyed about something that actually might (I’d argue almost definitely) not be the case.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby Iranu

lhpirnie wrote:
Iranu wrote:They should get Seema in. She’s got the chops and it would be a good way for her to learn the game more quickly for when she covers BBC events.

Yes, that would seem consistent. They brought her in, they should help her development. I do think part of the BBC's role should be to develop talent, rather than fall back on 'proven' presenters, who may have inflated salaries.

To be fair they have been doing that with Seema and Radzi, albeit partly out of necessity.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby lhpirnie

Iranu wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:Yes, I do think that Goldstein should have explained that better than saying "we're not interviewing Li Hang because his English isn't good enough". That makes it look like an editorial decision, but I think Goldstein as the presenter should take responsibility for explaining their rationale.


What I think the problem is with this is that broadcasters do get negative comments (and downvotes on twitter) when they interview foreigners. It seems like their response it too frequently to avoid the issue by not interviewing them, which I think is shameful. Even if they had problems with language, they should find a way, if necessary via a Zoom interpreter (the interviews were indeed conducted remotely in December). I don't believe that the media has any vendetta, but I do think they are bowing to pressure. I would like them to be a bit stronger, and fairer.

If you thought it wasn’t clear at the time I’m not sure why you said today that it was clear. I have no affection for Goldstein but it’s not fair to pretend that they obviously decided not to interview Chinese players when it’s not obvious at all.

I’ve gone back and reviewed the post-match on ES Player, and Goldstein doesn’t mention anything until a few minutes into the chat with Jimmy, which to me suggests that they were waiting to see whether Li wanted to be interviewed. If it was their decision you’d expect them to say it straight away. Just my feeling, though. What he actually says is, “Sadly Li won’t be coming in for an interview because his English isn’t strong enough” which doesn’t suggest anything one way or the other.

The thing is, Chinese players weren’t being snubbed for interviews until Covid happened so it seems likely that’s the cause and that there’s still a hangover from that at the moment (I mean there’s only been two tournaments). I think a Zoom interpreter would have made interviews very cumbersome. I am a bit surprised they didn’t just hire someone to act as interpreter, though.

What you’re saying is just conjecture, and you’re annoyed about something that actually might (I’d argue almost definitely) not be the case.

Oh in that case I am wrong. From memory I thought Goldstein's exact words were: "we're not interviewing Li Hang because his English isn't good enough". That jarred with me. But if my memory is wrong then I'm sorry.


EDIT - yes, I was wrong. He did say "sadly", which does suggest Li Hang was asked. My apologies to you and Mr Goldstein...

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby Iranu

lhpirnie wrote:Oh in that case I am wrong. From memory I thought Goldstein's exact words were: "we're not interviewing Li Hang because his English isn't good enough". That jarred with me. But if my memory is wrong then I'm sorry.


EDIT - yes, I was wrong. He did say "sadly", which does suggest Li Hang was asked. My apologies to you and Mr Goldstein...

Nah no worries. Goldstein’s statement definitely isn’t conclusive and I wouldn’t have pushed back so hard but I think that it’s important for snooker’s sake that we don’t imply any racial bias without serious evidence, since we’re listed on WST’s website and the forum often comes up on Google searches too. It could be damaging for the sport for people to infer that a broadcaster is racist (I know that’s not what you said but we know what people are like).

Best to stick to calling Goldstein a idiot I think - there’s copious documented evidence for that.

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby LC

I finally started to not mind Goldstein, after years of thinking of him as a poor mans Johnathan Ross, who I defo can’t stand lol

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby SnookerEd25

SnookerFan wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:He's not as funny as he thinks he is, either.


Nor am I :-(


You're not as funny as Andy Goldstein thinks he is?


I sure am. One and a half times as much :ok:

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby shanew48

lhpirnie wrote:
Iranu wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:Yes I'm not a fan of Goldstein. He described most Chinese players as "robotic" and wasn't prepared to interview them.

Describing Chinese players as robotic is a big pet peeve of mine. It’s demonstrably untrue and is just the old “inscrutable Chinese”’racism.

To be fair to Goldstein regarding interviews, it’s not a presenter’s choice who they interview I’d have thought, that’ll be down to the producers etc. And what Goldstein said was that the Chinese players hadn’t wanted to do an interview because their English wasn’t strong enough (I think their manager/translator might have been stuck in China because of Covid but I’m not sure on that.) He’s never said he’s not prepared to interview Chinese players as far as I’m aware.

The situation I'm referring to was with Li Hang in the Scottish Open, after Li beat Judd Trump. Yes it's possible the director made the call, but from Goldstein's remark it's clear that Li wasn't asked. I have spoken to Li Hang and his English is good enough, although maybe not for ES's exalted standards... OK, I'll give Goldstein the benefit of the doubt on that, but he certainly could have phrased it less abruptly. But in general, presenters should be trained to handle such interviews and be keen to do them, even if they have to persuade their director that they have the necessary skills.


It's a bit harsh bearing in mind they allow Jimmy and Ronnie to speak on camera and they are not very bright at all and do not have the best grasp of how to articulate the English language and they are natives!

Re: Andy Goldstein leaving Eurosport.

Postby shanew48

lhpirnie wrote:
Iranu wrote:They should get Seema in. She’s got the chops and it would be a good way for her to learn the game more quickly for when she covers BBC events.

Yes, that would seem consistent. They brought her in, they should help her development. I do think part of the BBC's role should be to develop talent, rather than fall back on 'proven' presenters, who may have inflated salaries.


She looks pretty nicely developed from what I've seen.