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Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby SnookerFan » 03 Sep 2021 Read

I can't emphasise enough how much I love the random draws in tournaments. I honestly think that the only better idea in the history of snooker was when they decided to hold The World Championships at The Crucible. I loved in when they did it to the Grand Prix in 2009, and was gutted when it didn't happen again for years. (And even in 2009, it was only done from the last 16, when it should've been the last 32 as well.)

The recent British Open, which had a marmite format on paper, at least did provide some entertainment in the best-of-five rounds. In my opinion, that was purely down to the random draw. If we'd have had a flat 128 draw, we'd have got top names playing lower ranked players in best of fives, and it could have easily ended as just another divvy short format tournament. I doubt there'd have been as many deciders. I'm not exactly saying this justifies the format. More than the random draw format can make anything watchable? So why not do it with more events?

I know that TV companies don't like them, because they want to guarantee big names, but the ITV4 viewership was good when the British Open was on. So what's stopping it be good if there was a random draw with longer matches? Maybe even make it a couple of weeks long, to fit all 128 players. Rather than have this lean period is snooker that we have now, have a couple of weeks tournament with a random draw, best of 11 all the way through it.

We're told how much variety we have in the season at the moment, but that's just an excuse that's trotted every time we introduce a new short format match tournament. But why not try at least one more tournament like this? The Flat 128 tournaments like the Home Nations are alright, but the endless best of sevens gets tedious. It's often Friday before anything interesting happens. Why not have a tournament that potentially has exciting matches from the start?

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby csprince » 03 Sep 2021 Read

keep the british open as an open draw but make it best of 9 up to the quarters then the semi's should be best of 11 and the final best of 17.the shoot out is also an open draw so i don't think we need anymore open draws but at least one fa cup style tournament would be cool.perhaps add amatuars in like the fa cup/uk open darts.
and maybe have 160 in the field. maybe invite the top 32 from the q school order of merit which would add something to q school if the players know that getting in the top 32 gets them in to the british open.

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby SnookerFan » 03 Sep 2021 Read

csprince wrote:keep the british open as an open draw but make it best of 9 up to the quarters then the semi's should be best of 11 and the final best of 17.the shoot out is also an open draw so i don't think we need anymore open draws but at least one fa cup style tournament would be cool.perhaps add amatuars in like the fa cup/uk open darts.
and maybe have 160 in the field. maybe invite the top 32 from the q school order of merit which would add something to q school if the players know that getting in the top 32 gets them in to the british open.


Oh, bullocks to the Shoot-Out.

I meant a proper snooker tournament.

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby csprince » 03 Sep 2021 Read

SnookerFan wrote:
csprince wrote:keep the british open as an open draw but make it best of 9 up to the quarters then the semi's should be best of 11 and the final best of 17.the shoot out is also an open draw so i don't think we need anymore open draws but at least one fa cup style tournament would be cool.perhaps add amatuars in like the fa cup/uk open darts.
and maybe have 160 in the field. maybe invite the top 32 from the q school order of merit which would add something to q school if the players know that getting in the top 32 gets them in to the british open.


Oh, bullocks to the Shoot-Out.

I meant a proper snooker tournament.


i know you meant a proper tournament.i was just making the point that there are two tournaments with an open draw.

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby SnookerFan » 03 Sep 2021 Read

csprince wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
csprince wrote:keep the british open as an open draw but make it best of 9 up to the quarters then the semi's should be best of 11 and the final best of 17.the shoot out is also an open draw so i don't think we need anymore open draws but at least one fa cup style tournament would be cool.perhaps add amatuars in like the fa cup/uk open darts.
and maybe have 160 in the field. maybe invite the top 32 from the q school order of merit which would add something to q school if the players know that getting in the top 32 gets them in to the british open.


Oh, bullocks to the Shoot-Out.

I meant a proper snooker tournament.


i know you meant a proper tournament.i was just making the point that there are two tournaments with an open draw.


Image

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby mick745 » 03 Sep 2021 Read

It happened in the british open around 1990, i think the tournament when Bob Chaperon won.

There was probably consternation that holding the draw this way led to an outsider winning. "We cant possibly have all the star names knocking each other out in the early rounds" they probably said.

The later stages of tournaments get bigger audiences. If it was say Trump v O'S in R2 that wouldnt generate income in the way that it would if they met in the final. That"s why seeding is there.

And the players would no doubt wonder why they work so hard on improving their rankings if it made no difference to who they might play in R1.

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby SnookerFan » 03 Sep 2021 Read

mick745 wrote:And the players would no doubt wonder why they work so hard on improving their rankings if it made no difference to who they might play in R1.


I'm only talking about it happening once or twice a season. Maybe the British Open, and one slightly longer tournament. Best of elevens etc. If it can make the British Open popular with that format, imagine what it can do with a longer format tournament.

Apparently, the tour "needs variety". So, let's try this. Come on, Steve Dawson. You know it makes sense.

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby SnookerEd25 » 03 Sep 2021 Read

SnookerFan wrote:
csprince wrote:keep the british open as an open draw but make it best of 9 up to the quarters then the semi's should be best of 11 and the final best of 17.the shoot out is also an open draw so i don't think we need anymore open draws but at least one fa cup style tournament would be cool.perhaps add amatuars in like the fa cup/uk open darts.
and maybe have 160 in the field. maybe invite the top 32 from the q school order of merit which would add something to q school if the players know that getting in the top 32 gets them in to the british open.


Oh, bullocks to the Shoot-Out.

I meant a proper snooker tournament.


:goodpost: <ok>

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby SnookerEd25 » 03 Sep 2021 Read

SnookerFan wrote:
csprince wrote:keep the british open as an open draw but make it best of 9 up to the quarters then the semi's should be best of 11 and the final best of 17.the shoot out is also an open draw so i don't think we need anymore open draws but at least one fa cup style tournament would be cool.perhaps add amatuars in like the fa cup/uk open darts.
and maybe have 160 in the field. maybe invite the top 32 from the q school order of merit which would add something to q school if the players know that getting in the top 32 gets them in to the british open.


Oh, bullocks to the Shoot-Out.

I meant a proper snooker tournament.


:goodpost: <ok>

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby Juddernaut88 » 03 Sep 2021 Read

csprince wrote:keep the british open as an open draw but make it best of 9 up to the quarters then the semi's should be best of 11 and the final best of 17.the shoot out is also an open draw so i don't think we need anymore open draws but at least one fa cup style tournament would be cool.perhaps add amatuars in like the fa cup/uk open darts.
and maybe have 160 in the field. maybe invite the top 32 from the q school order of merit which would add something to q school if the players know that getting in the top 32 gets them in to the british open.


:goodpost:

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby Prop » 03 Sep 2021 Read

SnookerFan wrote:I don't see them lengthening the British Open format, if I'm honest. ITV will have dictated it be that way, so they could get all 128 players in. It got good viewing figures too, apparently.


The British Open happened to be ok despite being bo5s. Problem is, there’s a chance someone in power will look at that as an overall formula for success - making no distinction between the merits of an open draw and the drawbacks of bo5s - and then the next bo5 tournament (be it British Open or whatever) ‘inexplicably’ turns out dogshit. Because someone in power previously applied the flawed logic that “they proved bo5s work”.

So yeah, open draws can be great when fate deals it that way. Equally they could create a load of mismatches. The British Open happened to throw up some good matchups. But that was down to chance.

On the other hand, bo5s will always be marmite, and we can only hope the reasonable reception of the British Open isn’t attributed to that in any way.

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby Prop » 03 Sep 2021 Read

chengdufan wrote:If we're saying there's going to be a pull out container placed under a different part of the table for each tournament, I'm all for it <ok>


Containing a few used chalks, an ancient yellowed cueball, and the arid dregs of a duty-free Golden Virginia pouch.

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby lhpirnie » 03 Sep 2021 Read

Prop wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I don't see them lengthening the British Open format, if I'm honest. ITV will have dictated it be that way, so they could get all 128 players in. It got good viewing figures too, apparently.


The British Open happened to be ok despite being bo5s. Problem is, there’s a chance someone in power will look at that as an overall formula for success - making no distinction between the merits of an open draw and the drawbacks of bo5s - and then the next bo5 tournament (be it British Open or whatever) ‘inexplicably’ turns out dogshit. Because someone in power previously applied the flawed logic that “they proved bo5s work”.

So yeah, open draws can be great when fate deals it that way. Equally they could create a load of mismatches. The British Open happened to throw up some good matchups. But that was down to chance.

On the other hand, bo5s will always be marmite, and we can only hope the reasonable reception of the British Open isn’t attributed to that in any way.

Too bad. We've been softened up for best-of-5's (or shorter) in league formats. Now we have best-of-5's in knockout formats. The feedback from the British Open was universally positive for various reasons. But the direction is clear: shorter matches.

Re: Should we have more random draw tournaments in a season?

Postby lhpirnie » 03 Sep 2021 Read

SnookerFan wrote:
mick745 wrote:And the players would no doubt wonder why they work so hard on improving their rankings if it made no difference to who they might play in R1.


I'm only talking about it happening once or twice a season. Maybe the British Open, and one slightly longer tournament. Best of elevens etc. If it can make the British Open popular with that format, imagine what it can do with a longer format tournament.

Apparently, the tour "needs variety". So, let's try this. Come on, Steve Dawson. You know it makes sense.

There's plenty of variety they could introduce, particularly in terms of invitational tournaments. The problem with random draws in knockout tournaments is that if somebody is unlucky a few times they could get a series of horrible draws and be relegated from the tour. Or perhaps fail to qualify for WGP, etc. So yes, a couple of times a season, but no more.


These guys are trying to make a living. Competition should be fair.
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