Willie Thorne and Clive Everton

Been watching the 2003 WC final (Williams-Doherty, a classic) and came across something interesting. Clive Everton made a comment about there being two categories of snooker player: those who have won the WC and those who have not. After the interval Willie Thorne was in the box and made a pointed remark about what Clive had said - saying he and JV (also in the box) were pretty good players and Jimmy White would have found that an amazing comment.

It reminded me that Willie and Clive were never commentating together - could this be the reason or did it go back before that?

Interesting. But doubt that Willy would be the sort to hold a grudge? Also, do they even get to decide who they commentate with? I mean I'm sure they can put in requests, and obvious pairings go well together.

I might be dreaming this, or just thinking about somebody else, but I have a feeling I did hear about some hostility between the two. Which may have been the reason the BBC chose not to put them together very often.

For the life of me, I can't remember what the hostility was about though. So may well be talking out of my bottom.

SnookerFan wrote:I might be dreaming this, or just thinking about somebody else, but I have a feeling I did hear about some hostility between the two. Which may have been the reason the BBC chose not to put them together very often.

For the life of me, I can't remember what the hostility was about though. So may well be talking out of my bottom.

No I’ve heard it too although I think probably mostly on here and 606 back in the day so who knows how true it is

No it is true. Everton took a bite out of Clive’s flapjack when his back was turned in the players’ room at the 1987 UK. They were never the same after that.

I was just wondering if this was the cause of it - I have no recollection of them being in the box together after that. I also remember when Clive had that fall and broke his hip, Willie making a remark in commentary that he would probably still get his fee - referring to him as "Mr Everton"....

Seems really childish if it is the case they fell out over Clive eating Willie's food lol.

I have no knowledge of this incident but I think Clive Everton is the best ever commentator.

They were the two best of their kind. Everton was (is) the best commentator and Thorne was the best analyser, just my opinion. Listening to Willie Thorne you could learn so much on what would be the right shot to play at any given moment. Yes I know he wasn't one of the all time great players but from an analytical commentary point of view he was awesome.

Wille really was excellent at calling the right shots. Combine that with Clive’s insatiable appetite for flapjack, and it’s a recipe for disaster, really.

Prop wrote:Wille really was excellent at calling the right shots. Combine that with Clive’s insatiable appetite for flapjack, and it’s a recipe for disaster, really.

Thing is, you could write it off as an honest mistake.

But the fact that the previous day Thorne had mentioned To Everton that he was considering bringing in a brownie, and Everton expressly advised Thorne that a flapjack was the way to go with its slow-release-energy properties makes it difficult to assume it was anything but a premeditated move by Everton and you have to have sympathy for Thorne.

Iranu wrote:

Prop wrote:Wille really was excellent at calling the right shots. Combine that with Clive’s insatiable appetite for flapjack, and it’s a recipe for disaster, really.

Thing is, you could write it off as an honest mistake.

But the fact that the previous day Thorne had mentioned To Everton that he was considering bringing in a brownie, and Everton expressly advised Thorne that a flapjack was the way to go with its slow-release-energy properties makes it difficult to assume it was anything but a premeditated move by Everton and you have to have sympathy for Thorne.

Indeed. And of course the mind instantly recalls the muffin incident at the 81 Mercentile Classic. You can only assume the ensuing tit-for-tat came as a result of Willie accidentally knocking it off Clive’s plate onto the unkempt studio carpet and getting all hairs and stuff stuck to it.

Prop wrote:Indeed. And of course the mind instantly recalls the muffin incident at the 81 Mercentile Classic. You can only assume the ensuing tit-for-tat came as a result of Willie accidentally knocking it off Clive’s plate onto the unkempt studio carpet and getting all hairs and stuff stuck to it.

Yeah exactly. Accident or no, any reader of Snooker Scene will know that Everton’s not one to let sleeping dogs lie. His retaliation was unsurprising, though one can hardly blame Thorne for deciding to give him a wide berth from then.

His decision was vindicated of course when it emerged that Everton had choked Dennis Taylor with Taylor’s own neck tie for daring to suggest that he preferred Dave Hendon’s contributions to Snooker Scene. Despite feeble claims that Everton had “fallen from his chair,” it was clear that Thorne (ever the snappy dresser) felt he couldn’t risk a similar outburst.

Iranu wrote:

Prop wrote:Indeed. And of course the mind instantly recalls the muffin incident at the 81 Mercentile Classic. You can only assume the ensuing tit-for-tat came as a result of Willie accidentally knocking it off Clive’s plate onto the unkempt studio carpet and getting all hairs and stuff stuck to it.

Yeah exactly. Accident or no, any reader of Snooker Scene will know that Everton’s not one to let sleeping dogs lie. His retaliation was unsurprising, though one can hardly blame Thorne for deciding to give him a wide berth from then.

His decision was vindicated of course when it emerged that Everton had choked Dennis Taylor with Taylor’s own neck tie for daring to suggest that he preferred Dave Hendon’s contributions to Snooker Scene. Despite feeble claims that Everton had “fallen from his chair,” it was clear that Thorne (ever the snappy dresser) felt he couldn’t risk a similar outburst.

I’m hesitant to mention the ‘curry stain’ on Clive’s shirt that the ITV gang chuckled about in recent seasons. Again, a charade, a fabrication created for the sole purpose of hiding the ugly truth of that ill-fated evening. But little do people know that Everton’s real nemesis, Karnhem, was involved. As were the products of a local bakery - several pain au chocolat - and a certain W. Thorne.

It’s all there now, the information is available, within the world wide supernet. But one should think twice about searching for something they cannot rid themselves of should they find it.

Prop wrote:I’m hesitant to mention the ‘curry stain’ on Clive’s shirt that the ITV gang chuckled about in recent seasons. Again, a charade, a fabrication created for the sole purpose of hiding the ugly truth of that ill-fated evening. But little do people know that Everton’s real nemesis, Karnhem, was involved. As were the products of a local bakery - several pain au chocolat - and a certain W. Thorne.

I recall this incident. But what probably needs to be mentioned is the role played by David Vine as instigator of the whole sorry affair. Following a couple (or several couples) of drinks in the green room prior to going on air, it was Vine who came up with the idea of using the baked goods in that way. Of course, Jack Karnehm wasn't going to let an opportunity like this slip through his fingers. Anything to foment some further beef between Thorne and Everton, he had to be right there. He put his keen analytical billiards mind to work and well, you know what happened next.

Witness to these proceedings was a certain Mr. David Icke, who was Vine's understudy at the time. Shortly after the incident he began wearing turquoise tracksuits and declaring himself the Son of God. We'll never know for certain whether the events of that night contributed to his spiral into madness. But I think we can say that none of them were ever quite the same again.

Post them all on here man! Nothing like a bit of harmless girly gossip lol. Well it's not gossip is it? Keeping snooker lovers informed about the actions of one of the all time great commentators and a brilliant analyst.

Prop wrote:
Indeed. And of course the mind instantly recalls the muffin incident at the 81 Mercentile Classic. You can only assume the ensuing tit-for-tat came as a result of Willie accidentally knocking it off Clive’s plate onto the unkempt studio carpet and getting all hairs and stuff stuck to it.

Nice try, Prop, but this is obviously fabricated.

It was the Wilsons Classic in 1981.

This is better than the best of 5 rubbish going on at the moment, keep them coming!

SnookerEd25 wrote:

Prop wrote:
Indeed. And of course the mind instantly recalls the muffin incident at the 81 Mercentile Classic. You can only assume the ensuing tit-for-tat came as a result of Willie accidentally knocking it off Clive’s plate onto the unkempt studio carpet and getting all hairs and stuff stuck to it.

Nice try, Prop, but this is obviously fabricated.

It was the Wilsons Classic in 1981.

I’m fairly sure it was the Mercentile?

Regarding Icke, yes it’s surprising that the likes of Karnhem and Everton haven’t been brought to task for what must have at least contributed to the increasing delirium of Icke.

A seemingly “harmless” incident in itself, sure. But you would expect some form of recompense to have befallen the perpetrators and an ‘invisible external influence’ of some kind could easily be seen to be as good an explanation as any for their seeming immunity from consequences.

SnookerEd25 wrote:

Prop wrote:
Indeed. And of course the mind instantly recalls the muffin incident at the 81 Mercentile Classic. You can only assume the ensuing tit-for-tat came as a result of Willie accidentally knocking it off Clive’s plate onto the unkempt studio carpet and getting all hairs and stuff stuck to it.

Nice try, Prop, but this is obviously fabricated.

It was the Wilsons Classic in 1981.

My mistake! Mercentile was…. hmmm, let me think

Yes, the 81 Mercentile was the year Willie gave tickets to Geldof and an aspiring Mick Hucknall! That brawl was horrific. I’m still not sure Hucknall ever got the compensation he sued for. And old Bob still has to wear that orthopaedic shoe. Clive found it all hilarious, despite spending much of the following week in a wheelchair. Ahhhh, memories

Any links online? I seem to vaguely remember some kind of falling out or Thorne and Everton not being the best of friends, I know Everton is a head strong character. It's amazing really, the media can put a spin on anything and just goes to show if you're not in the know then you don't know the rubbish being spun to the public!

orky wrote:Any links online? I seem to vaguely remember some kind of falling out or Thorne and Everton not being the best of friends, I know Everton is a head strong character. It's amazing really, the media can put a spin on anything and just goes to show if you're not in the know then you don't know the rubbish being spun to the public!

There are no links to definitive articles covering the whole saga from start to finish, the situation was far too nuanced to be something that could be reduced to a few intelligible paragraphs. Although I would recommend hunting down some of the older Snooker Scene blogs. A few pertinent entries are uploaded here and there. Just be prepared - once you go down this rabbit-hole, it’s unlikely you’ll come back and see the sport in the same way ever again.

One related incident that is quite well-documented online is the story of the fateful night that Martine McCutcheon took that taxicab ride with Mick Hucknall. She was riding high as Tiffany in Eastenders at the time and Mick had taken her to watch an exhibition match featuring Willie Thorne earlier in the evening. She became so intoxicated by Willie's break-building around the black spot - not for nothing was he known as The Maximum Man - and easy repartee with the crowd that she was almost giddy once play was over.

As some of you may recall, it was in the taxi home that McCutcheon, overcome with excitement and vodka, was violently sick in Hucknall's flowing red locks. The smell was so bad that it wouldn't wash out and he was forced to cut most of his hair off and make increasingly-bland white soul records for the remainder of the decade (and indeed, beyond).

I only mention it because you know who called the taxi? One Mr. Clive Everton, who was supposedly covering the exhibition for a forthcoming series in Snooker Scene. But his plan was for McCutcheon and Thorne to be sharing the cab and he was sorely disappointed when things didn't go the way he wanted. Apparently Karnehm - who was also present that night - had tipped Thorne off as to what was happening, allowing the bald cueman to himself scarce at an opportune moment.

And you know what? That purported series in Snooker Scene, the one that gave Everton reason to be present at the exhibition match? It never appeared.

Did Davis and Everton ever commentate together? I think no?

James Bentley wrote:One related incident that is quite well-documented online is the story of the fateful night that Martine McCutcheon took that taxicab ride with Mick Hucknall. She was riding high as Tiffany in Eastenders at the time and Mick had taken her to watch an exhibition match featuring Willie Thorne earlier in the evening. She became so intoxicated by Willie's break-building around the black spot - not for nothing was he known as The Maximum Man - and easy repartee with the crowd that she was almost giddy once play was over.

As some of you may recall, it was in the taxi home that McCutcheon, overcome with excitement and vodka, was violently sick in Hucknall's flowing red locks. The smell was so bad that it wouldn't wash out and he was forced to cut most of his hair off and make increasingly-bland white soul records for the remainder of the decade (and indeed, beyond).

I only mention it because you know who called the taxi? One Mr. Clive Everton, who was supposedly covering the exhibition for a forthcoming series in Snooker Scene. But his plan was for McCutcheon and Thorne to be sharing the cab and he was sorely disappointed when things didn't go the way he wanted. Apparently Karnehm - who was also present that night - had tipped Thorne off as to what was happening, allowing the bald cueman to himself scarce at an opportune moment.

And you know what? That purported series in Snooker Scene, the one that gave Everton reason to be present at the exhibition match? It never appeared.

And of course that nods to the ever-favourite pub quiz question about the dog of Ethel Skinner in Eastenders - Willy - and how it got its name. Yep, you guessed it; WT named it after himself, after meeting the actress Gretchen Franklin through McCutcheon and a group of BBC lighting engineers. Small world really, ain’t it

TheRocket wrote:Did Davis and Everton ever commentate together? I think no?

Don’t open THAT can of worms!

TheRocket wrote:Did Davis and Everton ever commentate together? I think no?

You're quite right. The reason for this goes all the way back to the 1982 Jameson International. Following a routine 5-0 whitewash of Dean Reynolds in the second round of the tournament, Steve was relaxing in his hotel room, listening to Gong on his newly-acquired Sony Walkman, when there was a knock on the door. Who could it be at this late hour?


It was none other than Clive Everton, who had locked himself out of his hotel room. While they waited for the reception clerk to come up with a new key, the two of them passed some time in conversation. Naturally this turned to Steve's new Walkman; Clive had never seen such a device before. "Let me listen," he said, positioning the headphones over his ears. "What is THIS?" he exclaimed. "I can't believe you're listening to 'Camembert Electrique', they'd totally sold out by then! It's 'Magick Brother' or nothing for me!" And with that, he stormed out of the room.

Sadly the two men were never to reconcile.

I will try and look online to find more info when I have time. Although I try not to draw conclusions based solely on others opinions and (reported) facts, Clive Everton is really coming across as a idiot, sorry to say. When I saw a clip of him on TV not so long ago, probably recorded some time this year, he looked in awful health and I hated seeing him like that. Irrespective of whether he's a nice bloke away from the mic or otherwise, I wish him good health.

Thorne was a loyalist to the Rex Williams regime in the late 1990s which was all too-eager to adopt threatening tactics to silence its critics and was willing to spend its members' money on dubious projects.

When Rex Williams was ousted in 1999, Mark Gay, one of the country's leading sports lawyers, conducted an investigation into the operations of the WPBSA at the time and found that much money had been frittered away. Everton spun out the findings in Snooker Scene over the course of many issues, which probably didn't endear him much to Thorne.

https://imgur.com/6TFD8d9
https://imgur.com/O55g5Ct (some pages from Everton's book)

But the origins of the feud were no doubt that fatal flapjack incident which Prop alluded to.

Remember when Clive turned heel and called himself Hollywood Everton and beat Willie over the head with a chair?