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Who is greater?

Selby
12
55%
Williams
10
45%
 
Total votes : 22

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Johnny Bravo

Iranu wrote:I don’t think gamesmanship should count against a player’s greatness tbf.

Yes it should.
Winning by playing the proper way and winning by being dirty are two entirely different things, the first being more indicative of greatness.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Iranu

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Iranu wrote:I don’t think gamesmanship should count against a player’s greatness tbf.

Yes it should.
Winning by playing the proper way and winning by being dirty are two entirely different things, the first being more indicative of greatness.

The proper way means not making it as difficult as possible for your opponent?

Shithousery is a skill.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby SnookerEd25

Pink Ball wrote:
Granite wrote:I guess when you have world beaters like Matthew Stevens and Ken Doherty as your world final opponents, you can turn out to be a huge superstar.

Ken Doherty was a fine player.


Actually, so was Stevens at his best; genuine top four player in a tough era. Had a few personal problems off the table, though, but JB wouldn’t appreciate that because “how can you have problems when you’re earning big money?”

:hmmm:

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Holden Chinaski

SnookerEd25 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Granite wrote:I guess when you have world beaters like Matthew Stevens and Ken Doherty as your world final opponents, you can turn out to be a huge superstar.

Ken Doherty was a fine player.


Actually, so was Stevens at his best; genuine top four player in a tough era.

Correct. :hatoff:

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Pink Ball

SnookerEd25 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Granite wrote:I guess when you have world beaters like Matthew Stevens and Ken Doherty as your world final opponents, you can turn out to be a huge superstar.

Ken Doherty was a fine player.


Actually, so was Stevens at his best; genuine top four player in a tough era.

I definitely wouldn't say top 4, but he was very good. Losing the 2005 World Championship final seemed to knock the stuffing out of him.

But I wasn't as defensive of him because we all know what he was like when it came to the crunch. Doherty was a high-class player though.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby shanew48

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Granite wrote:William fans are laughable. Selby is the superior player achievement and skill wise. At least Selby can open up a pack of reds. Williams has overachieved with his non existent cue power and break building.

But on the other hand, Williams never uses gamesmanship. That’s worth something. Selby is a great player, but we all know he’s not against some gamesmanship when he feels like it. Multiple players have said this and we have all seen it. But MJW is respected by the whole tour.


His gamesmanship tactics are the reason why he doesn't get the love from the public like other players do, he will say it doesn't bother him, maybe it doesn't, who knows. He gets respect for his ability and achievements but will never receive that feeling of warmth from the crowds because they arnt silly and can see how he attempts to gain an advantage through time wasting, he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.

The thing is he uses those tactics especially when playing Ronnie as he knows that he can't go toe to toe with him as it were so just resorts to trying to make it so everyone loses the will to live.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Holden Chinaski

shanew48 wrote:he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out..

I wouldn't say that. I think he genuinely suffers from mental health issues, which is not surprising when you know how tough his childhood was. I think it was very brave of Selby to talk about his issues and by doing that he's helping a lot of other people who suffer from it.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Iranu

shanew48 wrote:he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.

You are disgusting.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Pink Ball

shanew48 wrote:he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.

Why would you assume that someone who has never "played the mental health card" in over 20 years as a pro would suddenly choose to do so now? Is it not much more likely that he was, you know, genuinely sick?

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby mantorok

shanew48 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Granite wrote:William fans are laughable. Selby is the superior player achievement and skill wise. At least Selby can open up a pack of reds. Williams has overachieved with his non existent cue power and break building.

But on the other hand, Williams never uses gamesmanship. That’s worth something. Selby is a great player, but we all know he’s not against some gamesmanship when he feels like it. Multiple players have said this and we have all seen it. But MJW is respected by the whole tour.


His gamesmanship tactics are the reason why he doesn't get the love from the public like other players do, he will say it doesn't bother him, maybe it doesn't, who knows. He gets respect for his ability and achievements but will never receive that feeling of warmth from the crowds because they arnt silly and can see how he attempts to gain an advantage through time wasting, he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.


I’ve had conversations with someone who knows Mark personally, I can assure you it’s not bull and during his worst was no laughing matter.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Wildey

shanew48 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Granite wrote:William fans are laughable. Selby is the superior player achievement and skill wise. At least Selby can open up a pack of reds. Williams has overachieved with his non existent cue power and break building.

But on the other hand, Williams never uses gamesmanship. That’s worth something. Selby is a great player, but we all know he’s not against some gamesmanship when he feels like it. Multiple players have said this and we have all seen it. But MJW is respected by the whole tour.


His gamesmanship tactics are the reason why he doesn't get the love from the public like other players do, he will say it doesn't bother him, maybe it doesn't, who knows. He gets respect for his ability and achievements but will never receive that feeling of warmth from the crowds because they arnt silly and can see how he attempts to gain an advantage through time wasting, he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.

The thing is he uses those tactics especially when playing Ronnie as he knows that he can't go toe to toe with him as it were so just resorts to trying to make it so everyone loses the will to live.


Warning Issued

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby sas6789

shanew48 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Granite wrote:William fans are laughable. Selby is the superior player achievement and skill wise. At least Selby can open up a pack of reds. Williams has overachieved with his non existent cue power and break building.

But on the other hand, Williams never uses gamesmanship. That’s worth something. Selby is a great player, but we all know he’s not against some gamesmanship when he feels like it. Multiple players have said this and we have all seen it. But MJW is respected by the whole tour.


His gamesmanship tactics are the reason why he doesn't get the love from the public like other players do, he will say it doesn't bother him, maybe it doesn't, who knows. He gets respect for his ability and achievements but will never receive that feeling of warmth from the crowds because they arnt silly and can see how he attempts to gain an advantage through time wasting, he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.

The thing is he uses those tactics especially when playing Ronnie as he knows that he can't go toe to toe with him as it were so just resorts to trying to make it so everyone loses the will to live.

"he brought out the mental health card"

Disgusting, the likes of you and Johnny Bravo should be banned from this forum.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby shanew48

I think you have misinterpreted what I meant, I wasn’t doubting he has had mental health issues, I was saying that he went public, in part, to garner some love from the crowds but it hasn’t made any difference as the crowds don’t really warm to him due to his gamesmanship tactics.

I understand mental health issues myself better than most, so I repeat, I wasn’t doubting that he has suffered himself.

Hopefully the warning will be rescinded now that I have clarified what I meant before everyone starting getting all menstrual on me! Lol

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby SnookerFan

shanew48 wrote:I think you have misinterpreted what I meant, I wasn’t doubting he has had mental health issues, I was saying that he went public, in part, to garner some love from the crowds but it hasn’t made any difference as the crowds don’t really warm to him due to his gamesmanship tactics.

I understand mental health issues myself better than most, so I repeat, I wasn’t doubting that he has suffered himself.

Hopefully the warning will be rescinded now that I have clarified what I meant before everyone starting getting all menstrual on me! Lol


Public figures discussing their mental health issues can help or inspire those who has similar issues.

Too often in society we trivialise mental health, or assume that the person suffering from it can just 'snap out of it'. This can lead to guilt on the part of those suffering from it, which in turn could quite easily worsen their conditions.

Also, maybe people who are feeling similar to Selby will reach out. Having somebody with similar issues to talk and share experiences with will benefit them both.

I see nothing wrong with Mark Selby's actions here.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Granite

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Granite wrote:William fans are laughable. Selby is the superior player achievement and skill wise. At least Selby can open up a pack of reds. Williams has overachieved with his non existent cue power and break building.

But on the other hand, Williams never uses gamesmanship. That’s worth something. Selby is a great player, but we all know he’s not against some gamesmanship when he feels like it. Multiple players have said this and we have all seen it. But MJW is respected by the whole tour.


I don't see what taking some time over a shot or "respect" has anything to with Selby's abilities.

You're a fan of a player who's physically assaulted someone (physical altercation is the lowest form someone can go to), took drugs which led to a title being defaulted and told a room full of people in an interview to suck him off.

I don't think O'Sullivan fans should be criticizing other players faults and talking about respect.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Granite

You know, Williams has said some outlandish things in interviews about the sport like how he doesn't give a buck, same things as O'Sullivan says, but it doesn't get picked up because people generally see him as a clown.

If Selby was making the same type of comments he'd get jumped so quick because he's such an easy target. Always has been the dartboard. Look at 2020 World Championship fiasco. Selby was getting torn apart on Twitter.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Iranu

Granite wrote:You know, Williams has said some outlandish things in interviews about the sport like how he doesn't give a buck, same things as O'Sullivan says, but it doesn't get picked up because people generally see him as a clown.

I’ve said this before.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby SnookerFan

Granite wrote:You know, Williams has said some outlandish things in interviews about the sport like how he doesn't give a buck, same things as O'Sullivan says, but it doesn't get picked up because people generally see him as a clown.


I think it depends what is being said/done.

Mainly, the only real thing you can criticise Williams for, is occasionally saying "rubbish" in interviews. And that doesn't bother me personally.

I can't remember a time when he's said anything that I would call disrespectful to other players, or the game itself. He has a dry sense of humour, and will sometimes tease other players, like he does with Hendry. But that always comes across as being a bit in fun. Even his; "If I win the World Championship, I'll get naked in the press conference", was taken as funny. Mainly because he then did win it, despite the odds.

I wouldn't go as far as calling him a clown. But at lot of the stuff he has said is jovial or in jest. Which is why I don't think it offends anybody.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby SnookerEd25

SnookerFan wrote:
Granite wrote:You know, Williams has said some outlandish things in interviews about the sport like how he doesn't give a buck, same things as O'Sullivan says, but it doesn't get picked up because people generally see him as a clown.


I think it depends what is being said/done.

Mainly, the only real thing you can criticise Williams for, is occasionally saying "rubbish" in interviews. And that doesn't bother me personally.

I can't remember a time when he's said anything that I would call disrespectful to other players, or the game itself. He has a dry sense of humour, and will sometimes tease other players, like he does with Hendry. But that always comes across as being a bit in fun. Even his; "If I win the World Championship, I'll get naked in the press conference", was taken as funny. Mainly because he then did win it, despite the odds.

I wouldn't go as far as calling him a clown. But at lot of the stuff he has said is jovial or in jest. Which is why I don't think it offends anybody.


*Darren Morgan? :chin:

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby shanew48

I think overall Williams is the better player overall and has the respect of the other players and people who follow snooker as he does play the game in the right way, he has won 3 WC without having to bore everyone to death like Selby does, in the final against Murphy a couple of years ago Selby was booed when introduced for the final session which says a lot bearing in mind Murphy wasn't booed and he isn't exactly a fans favourite is he! so even though he has one more WC than Williams I will always rank Williams above Selby as a player, a person and an ambassador of and for the game.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby Dan-cat

shanew48 wrote:I think overall Williams is the better player overall and has the respect of the other players and people who follow snooker as he does play the game in the right way, he has won 3 WC without having to bore everyone to death like Selby does, in the final against Murphy a couple of years ago Selby was booed when introduced for the final session which says a lot bearing in mind Murphy wasn't booed and he isn't exactly a fans favourite is he! so even though he has one more WC than Williams I will always rank Williams above Selby as a player, a person and an ambassador of and for the game.


Accurate.

Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?

Postby sas6789

shanew48 wrote:I think overall Williams is the better player overall and has the respect of the other players and people who follow snooker as he does play the game in the right way, he has won 3 WC without having to bore everyone to death like Selby does, in the final against Murphy a couple of years ago Selby was booed when introduced for the final session which says a lot bearing in mind Murphy wasn't booed and he isn't exactly a fans favourite is he! so even though he has one more WC than Williams I will always rank Williams above Selby as a player, a person and an ambassador of and for the game.

Selby quite clearly has the respect from other players.