Re: Has Selby surpassed Williams in all-time great list?
I’d also say MJW has (finally) learned how to split the reds.
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Iranu - Posts: 41183
- Joined: 24 January 2010
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Iranu wrote:I don’t think gamesmanship should count against a player’s greatness tbf.
Johnny Bravo wrote:Iranu wrote:I don’t think gamesmanship should count against a player’s greatness tbf.
Yes it should.
Winning by playing the proper way and winning by being dirty are two entirely different things, the first being more indicative of greatness.
Granite wrote:I guess when you have world beaters like Matthew Stevens and Ken Doherty as your world final opponents, you can turn out to be a huge superstar.
Pink Ball wrote:Granite wrote:I guess when you have world beaters like Matthew Stevens and Ken Doherty as your world final opponents, you can turn out to be a huge superstar.
Ken Doherty was a fine player.
SnookerEd25 wrote:Pink Ball wrote:Granite wrote:I guess when you have world beaters like Matthew Stevens and Ken Doherty as your world final opponents, you can turn out to be a huge superstar.
Ken Doherty was a fine player.
Actually, so was Stevens at his best; genuine top four player in a tough era.
SnookerEd25 wrote:Pink Ball wrote:Granite wrote:I guess when you have world beaters like Matthew Stevens and Ken Doherty as your world final opponents, you can turn out to be a huge superstar.
Ken Doherty was a fine player.
Actually, so was Stevens at his best; genuine top four player in a tough era.
Holden Chinaski wrote:Granite wrote:William fans are laughable. Selby is the superior player achievement and skill wise. At least Selby can open up a pack of reds. Williams has overachieved with his non existent cue power and break building.
But on the other hand, Williams never uses gamesmanship. That’s worth something. Selby is a great player, but we all know he’s not against some gamesmanship when he feels like it. Multiple players have said this and we have all seen it. But MJW is respected by the whole tour.
shanew48 wrote:he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out..
shanew48 wrote:he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.
shanew48 wrote:he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.
shanew48 wrote:Holden Chinaski wrote:Granite wrote:William fans are laughable. Selby is the superior player achievement and skill wise. At least Selby can open up a pack of reds. Williams has overachieved with his non existent cue power and break building.
But on the other hand, Williams never uses gamesmanship. That’s worth something. Selby is a great player, but we all know he’s not against some gamesmanship when he feels like it. Multiple players have said this and we have all seen it. But MJW is respected by the whole tour.
His gamesmanship tactics are the reason why he doesn't get the love from the public like other players do, he will say it doesn't bother him, maybe it doesn't, who knows. He gets respect for his ability and achievements but will never receive that feeling of warmth from the crowds because they arnt silly and can see how he attempts to gain an advantage through time wasting, he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.
shanew48 wrote:Holden Chinaski wrote:Granite wrote:William fans are laughable. Selby is the superior player achievement and skill wise. At least Selby can open up a pack of reds. Williams has overachieved with his non existent cue power and break building.
But on the other hand, Williams never uses gamesmanship. That’s worth something. Selby is a great player, but we all know he’s not against some gamesmanship when he feels like it. Multiple players have said this and we have all seen it. But MJW is respected by the whole tour.
His gamesmanship tactics are the reason why he doesn't get the love from the public like other players do, he will say it doesn't bother him, maybe it doesn't, who knows. He gets respect for his ability and achievements but will never receive that feeling of warmth from the crowds because they arnt silly and can see how he attempts to gain an advantage through time wasting, he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.
The thing is he uses those tactics especially when playing Ronnie as he knows that he can't go toe to toe with him as it were so just resorts to trying to make it so everyone loses the will to live.
shanew48 wrote:Holden Chinaski wrote:Granite wrote:William fans are laughable. Selby is the superior player achievement and skill wise. At least Selby can open up a pack of reds. Williams has overachieved with his non existent cue power and break building.
But on the other hand, Williams never uses gamesmanship. That’s worth something. Selby is a great player, but we all know he’s not against some gamesmanship when he feels like it. Multiple players have said this and we have all seen it. But MJW is respected by the whole tour.
His gamesmanship tactics are the reason why he doesn't get the love from the public like other players do, he will say it doesn't bother him, maybe it doesn't, who knows. He gets respect for his ability and achievements but will never receive that feeling of warmth from the crowds because they arnt silly and can see how he attempts to gain an advantage through time wasting, he brought out the mental health card, thought it might garner something from the crowds, it didn't, so he will just have to continuing boring everyone for however long he drags his career out.
The thing is he uses those tactics especially when playing Ronnie as he knows that he can't go toe to toe with him as it were so just resorts to trying to make it so everyone loses the will to live.
shanew48 wrote:I think you have misinterpreted what I meant, I wasn’t doubting he has had mental health issues, I was saying that he went public, in part, to garner some love from the crowds but it hasn’t made any difference as the crowds don’t really warm to him due to his gamesmanship tactics.
I understand mental health issues myself better than most, so I repeat, I wasn’t doubting that he has suffered himself.
Hopefully the warning will be rescinded now that I have clarified what I meant before everyone starting getting all menstrual on me! Lol
Holden Chinaski wrote:Granite wrote:William fans are laughable. Selby is the superior player achievement and skill wise. At least Selby can open up a pack of reds. Williams has overachieved with his non existent cue power and break building.
But on the other hand, Williams never uses gamesmanship. That’s worth something. Selby is a great player, but we all know he’s not against some gamesmanship when he feels like it. Multiple players have said this and we have all seen it. But MJW is respected by the whole tour.
Granite wrote:You know, Williams has said some outlandish things in interviews about the sport like how he doesn't give a buck, same things as O'Sullivan says, but it doesn't get picked up because people generally see him as a clown.
Prop wrote:Would you like some help out of Selby’s bottom, or are you going to stay there for a while longer and occasionally come out for air?
Granite wrote:You know, Williams has said some outlandish things in interviews about the sport like how he doesn't give a buck, same things as O'Sullivan says, but it doesn't get picked up because people generally see him as a clown.
SnookerFan wrote:Granite wrote:You know, Williams has said some outlandish things in interviews about the sport like how he doesn't give a buck, same things as O'Sullivan says, but it doesn't get picked up because people generally see him as a clown.
I think it depends what is being said/done.
Mainly, the only real thing you can criticise Williams for, is occasionally saying "rubbish" in interviews. And that doesn't bother me personally.
I can't remember a time when he's said anything that I would call disrespectful to other players, or the game itself. He has a dry sense of humour, and will sometimes tease other players, like he does with Hendry. But that always comes across as being a bit in fun. Even his; "If I win the World Championship, I'll get naked in the press conference", was taken as funny. Mainly because he then did win it, despite the odds.
I wouldn't go as far as calling him a clown. But at lot of the stuff he has said is jovial or in jest. Which is why I don't think it offends anybody.
shanew48 wrote:I think overall Williams is the better player overall and has the respect of the other players and people who follow snooker as he does play the game in the right way, he has won 3 WC without having to bore everyone to death like Selby does, in the final against Murphy a couple of years ago Selby was booed when introduced for the final session which says a lot bearing in mind Murphy wasn't booed and he isn't exactly a fans favourite is he! so even though he has one more WC than Williams I will always rank Williams above Selby as a player, a person and an ambassador of and for the game.
shanew48 wrote:I think overall Williams is the better player overall and has the respect of the other players and people who follow snooker as he does play the game in the right way, he has won 3 WC without having to bore everyone to death like Selby does, in the final against Murphy a couple of years ago Selby was booed when introduced for the final session which says a lot bearing in mind Murphy wasn't booed and he isn't exactly a fans favourite is he! so even though he has one more WC than Williams I will always rank Williams above Selby as a player, a person and an ambassador of and for the game.