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Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Iranu

Wildey wrote:
mick745 wrote:So we are saying if Jimmy potted that red at 15-14 and 59-0, Reardon would have won his SEVENTH world title, something Davis would fall short of matching and Hendry now only have matched it.

In other words White changed the whole course of snooker history with that miss.

what if Selby had cleared up in the decider last year against Ronnie he had the chance Selby could have been 4 times champ or Kyren would have played better in the final than he did and become a World Champ.


Sport is full of what ifs.

In fairness I think that’s kinda the point of the thread.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Dragonfly

White has said that if became World Champion in 82 then he would be dead now. Too fond of the booze and white powder. He reckons he would have went crazy with the fame and the money.

However I seriously doubt this. I mean he went crazy anyway without winning it and he's still very much alive. I'm not sure what difference actually having the title would have made

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Prop

Iranu wrote:
Wildey wrote:
mick745 wrote:So we are saying if Jimmy potted that red at 15-14 and 59-0, Reardon would have won his SEVENTH world title, something Davis would fall short of matching and Hendry now only have matched it.

In other words White changed the whole course of snooker history with that miss.

what if Selby had cleared up in the decider last year against Ronnie he had the chance Selby could have been 4 times champ or Kyren would have played better in the final than he did and become a World Champ.


Sport is full of what ifs.

In fairness I think that’s kinda the point of the thread.


<laugh>

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Prop

Dragonfly wrote:White has said that if became World Champion in 82 then he would be dead now. Too fond of the booze and white powder. He reckons he would have went crazy with the fame and the money.

However I seriously doubt this. I mean he went crazy anyway without winning it and he's still very much alive. I'm not sure what difference actually having the title would have made


Yep. A good point. I suppose another question is whether Jimmy would have had a completely different career if he’d lived like a saint.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby badtemperedcyril

Wildey wrote:
mick745 wrote:So we are saying if Jimmy potted that red at 15-14 and 59-0, Reardon would have won his SEVENTH world title, something Davis would fall short of matching and Hendry now only have matched it.

In other words White changed the whole course of snooker history with that miss.

what if Selby had cleared up in the decider last year against Ronnie he had the chance Selby could have been 4 times champ or Kyren would have played better in the final than he did and become a World Champ.


Sport is full of what ifs.


Selby will regret the concluding stages of that match for the rest of his life. It’s put irretrievable distance between himself and Ronnie in terms of world titles. I have no doubt Selby would’ve beaten Wilson, not as one sided as Ronnie did, but a win nonetheless.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Andre147

Dragonfly wrote:White has said that if became World Champion in 82 then he would be dead now. Too fond of the booze and white powder. He reckons he would have went crazy with the fame and the money.

However I seriously doubt this. I mean he went crazy anyway without winning it and he's still very much alive. I'm not sure what difference actually having the title would have made


I truly believe White only says this because he's been 6 times runner-up already. Back in 82 he wasnt 6 times runner-up lol...

Yes he'd be absulutely over the moon, but not to the point of dying from it. 1992 was by far his best chance, 14-8 up, how he bottled that lead I'll never know...

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Dragonfly

Andre147 wrote:
Dragonfly wrote:White has said that if became World Champion in 82 then he would be dead now. Too fond of the booze and white powder. He reckons he would have went crazy with the fame and the money.

However I seriously doubt this. I mean he went crazy anyway without winning it and he's still very much alive. I'm not sure what difference actually having the title would have made


I truly believe White only says this because he's been 6 times runner-up already. Back in 82 he wasnt 6 times runner-up lol...

Yes he'd be absulutely over the moon, but not to the point of dying from it. 1992 was by far his best chance, 14-8 up, how he bottled that lead I'll never know...


Exactly. At his peak White was a fine player and a joy to watch. But unfortunately just wasn't strong enough when it really mattered. Even before the 92 final he had previous history in blowing winning positions. He once lead Thorburn 7-0 in a ranking final and managed to lose that too.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby badtemperedcyril

I think Jimmy gets called a bottler too often. People forget the amount of matches and tournaments that he DID win in pressure situations, not least to have reached six Crucible finals. The Goya final was a bit of a freak situation. Jimmy was brilliant for the first 7 frames, should have led 8-0 but Thorburn got about 4 snookers to pinch the frame then played out of his skin thereafter. He gets remembered for missing THAT black in the 94 final but come on , its 17-17 and you've lost in five previous world finals - who wouldn't twitch on the odd shot?

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Andre147

badtemperedcyril wrote:I think Jimmy gets called a bottler too often. People forget the amount of matches and tournaments that he DID win in pressure situations, not least to have reached six Crucible finals. The Goya final was a bit of a freak situation. Jimmy was brilliant for the first 7 frames, should have led 8-0 but Thorburn got about 4 snookers to pinch the frame then played out of his skin thereafter. He gets remembered for missing THAT black in the 94 final but come on , its 17-17 and you've lost in five previous world finals - who wouldn't twitch on the odd shot?


1994 could happen to any player, so I dont call it a bottle job.

1992 however... he should have never lost from 14-8 up, Stevens like...

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

White was the best player in the World in 1992 going by results that year and he had beaten Hendry 18-9, 10-4 & 9-2 in big matches over the previous 18 months. That was the one time when the World title was there for the taking and White didn't do it. By 94 he was already in decline and did well to get so close.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby TheRocket

bigger matches at least. Maybe he's lost in a bo9 or bo11 after a good lead. But multi session matches, finals or stuff like that I cant remember where he was well in front and lost.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Juddernaut88

TheRocket wrote:
Iranu wrote:Is there a great player who hasn’t lost matches from far in front?


Robbo


How many frames lead are we counting as far in front? Robbo was 7-4 up against Judd Trump in the English Open final this season and lost 9-8. Not certain if a 3 frame lead would meet the criteria for being"far in front" but in a best of 17 final and being 2 frames from victory it could to a certain extent.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby TheRocket

have to admit English Open final is debatable. Prior to that I cant recall any matches but maybe there is. But I dont think Robbo ever looks back at any match and regrets that he wasted a good lead. Other great players definitely do.

And if you waste a good lead at the World,UK or Masters it always hurts a lot more.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Iranu

Juddernaut88 wrote:
TheRocket wrote:
Iranu wrote:Is there a great player who hasn’t lost matches from far in front?


Robbo


How many frames lead are we counting as far in front? Robbo was 7-4 up against Judd Trump in the English Open final this season and lost 9-8. Not certain if a 3 frame lead would meet the criteria for being"far in front" but in a best of 17 final and being 2 frames from victory it could to a certain extent.

Good point. Three frames isn’t necessarily “a lot” but relative to how many frames he needed to win, you could argue it’s far more of a lead to lose than Davis’s 7-0 lead in the ‘85 final for example.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Dragonfly

Did Hendry ever lose a match after opening a huge lead. I know O'Sullivan levelled from 8-2 against him. Hendry's response was to close the match with 147. There's probably an obvious one that I'm forgetting but can't think of it.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby badtemperedcyril

Dragonfly wrote:Did Hendry ever lose a match after opening a huge lead. I know O'Sullivan levelled from 8-2 against him. Hendry's response was to close the match with 147. There's probably an obvious one that I'm forgetting but can't think of it.

'98 Masters final springs to mind, when he was 9-6 up on Williams and lost 10-9 on the re-spotted black.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Juddernaut88

Dragonfly wrote:Did Hendry ever lose a match after opening a huge lead. I know O'Sullivan levelled from 8-2 against him. Hendry's response was to close the match with 147. There's probably an obvious one that I'm forgetting but can't think of it.


He was 4-0 up in the 2013 UK championship final against Matthew Stevens and ended up losing 10-8, the turning point was frame 14, he was 7-6 up and missed frame ball black of it's spot, Stevens cleared and it was 7-7 and when to win the match. Also I think Hendry was 9-6 up against Williams in the 1998 Masters final (I hate talking about that match)

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby TheRocket

Despite being the most successful player in the TC events Ronnie also has the most bottle jobs it has to be said.

Just in the Masters alone he threw away 4 finals. At the WC you have the quarter final against Ebdon in 2005 where he had a 8:2 lead and the World final in 2014. Yes Selby deserves credit but Ronnie shouldnt have lost from that position. As for the Ebdon match it was even worse because that was purely because of Ebdons slow play which got under his skin.
Last edited by TheRocket on 14 Mar 2021, edited 2 times in total.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Iranu

badtemperedcyril wrote:As Clive Everton would say, three up with six to play...

Or in the case of Davis in '85, eight up with twenty-seven to play!

Doesn't sound such a commanding lead put like that.

Yeah exactly! <laugh>

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby badtemperedcyril

TheRocket wrote:Despite being the most successful player in the TC events Ronnie also has the most bottle jobs it has to be said.

Just in the Masters alone he threw away 4 finals. At the WC you have the quarter final against Ebdon in 2005 where he had a 8:2 lead and the World final in 2014. Yes Selby deserves credit but Ronnie shouldnt have lost from that position. As for the Ebdon match it was even worse because that was purely because of Ebdons slow play which got under his skin.
It was more painful to watch Ronnie squirming in his chair than it was to wait for Ebdon to take a shot. You could literally see him losing the plot just sitting there biting at his fingers, looking at Ebdon and the crowd all crooked, studying his watch... can't say he "bottled it" - he just lost his head.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Dragonfly

O'Sullivan should probably have 10 Masters titles. I know he has the record amount of wins but also bizarrely it's been a painful event for him. Hendry was said while commentating that he still has bad memories of the UK. He won it 5 times but that was only 50% success rate in finals.

Actually that was impressive by Stevens to beat Hendry from 0-4. Considering Stevens somewhat shaky reputation in major finals.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby Andre147

The most successful players always tend to have that bad record of losing matches from great winning positions purely because they reach lots of Finals, so the percentage is way higher.

You won't see that with players who dont often reach Finals. This is why Ronnie has lost more Finals when being in front than probably any other player, namely versus Selby.

Re: World Champs Semi-finals... WHAT IF ?

Postby badtemperedcyril

No multiple World Champion has a 100% record in world finals, except Joe Davis, and he retired before he could lose one. They’ve all had their share of disappointments.

Donaldson - 2 world titles, lost 6 finals
F Davis - 8 titles, lost 3 finals
Pulman - 8 titles, lost 3 finals
Spencer - 3 titles, lost 1 final
Reardon - 6 titles, lost 1 final
A Higgins - 2 titles, lost 2 finals
S Davis - 6 titles, lost 2 finals
Hendry - 7 titles, lost 2 finals
Williams, 3 titles, lost 1 final
J Higgins - 4 titles, lost 4 finals
O’Sullivan - 6 titles, lost 1 final
Selby - 3 titles, lost 1 final