Who had the higher peak between Selby and Williams?

I never see this get discussed

We've had countless discussions about peak ROS/Hendry/Higgins and the majority of the snooker fanbase consider those 3 as having the highest peak level in snooker but we're not here for that

What about Selby vs Williams? They're very similar in career achievements but let's discuss how a match would fare between those 2

1 match at their peak, Crucible final, all at stake, who takes it?

MJW, not even up for debate.

The level he showed between 1998-2003, he competed with peak Hendry, peak ROS and peak Higgins. Enough said.

@Iranu
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Andre147 wrote:MJW, not even up for debate.

Wow, really?

MJW

I'm going to be controversial here and say Mark Selby.
I think that period between 2014-2017 where had won those 3 world titles and he was also world number 1 for like 4-5 years running.
I think in a best of 35 final, Mark Selby would edge it 18-15 or 18-16.

I am a neutral observer here but thanks Juddernaut for making things interesting otherwise the poll looking like a whitewash lmao

I expect this to be close tbh

Juddernaut88 wrote:I'm going to be controversial here and say Mark Selby.
I think that period between 2014-2017 where had won those 3 world titles and he was also world number 1 for like 4-5 years running.
I think in a best of 35 final, Mark Selby would edge it 18-15 or 18-16.

I tend to agree. Williams has more natural ability but Selby has the iron will. Their career records really are very evenly matched. One interesting fact though. Williams for whatever reason, appears to have an inferiority complex against Ronnie. Selby on the other hand, seems to relish taking him on. Let us not forget, Selby has beaten Ronnie in finals of the Worlds, UK and Masters. Also, but for a freakish turn of events towards the concluding part of their Crucible semi-final last year, Selby would almost certainly now be a four time World Champion and Ron still on five. Anyway, I digress, this debate is about the two Mark's, and for me, my vote, just, goes to SELBY.

If it's a direct match up, I'd give Williams the edge. He seems to deal with Selby's tactical play better than most players, and has a respectable head-to-head against him despite generally being a shadow of the player he once was in recent years.

If Williams had been more motivated, I think he could've won several more world titles, but (as seen after his third) he relaxes after winning something and goes on a year-long bender. Selby is more consistent overall and has a stronger will to win, but if we're talking peak level, I think Andre is right to point to 2002-2003 - Williams was winning everything and it seemed completely inevitable, like Hendry at his best.

Selby is the better breakbuilder but MJW is the better potter and shotmaker

Tactically I dont see a big advantage for either player. Selby is the better safety player but MJW can overcome that with his single ball potting. And he was known for doing very well in the scrappy frames. Mental strength both roughly the same.

It would be a very competitive match. But I give MJW a slight edge. Reason being that he has beaten prime Higgins (who is the ultimate matchplayer) back to back at the Crucible (1999 and 2000).

Would Williams handle a Selby comeback? We know Selby can go into one of those modes where he comes back then shuts players out like ROS in 2014 and Higgins in 2017

Mark

I appreciate this isn't the purpose of the question but nonetheless, I would have to say that Selby has the more impressive record in major finals, and they're the ones that count. Look at the occasions when Williams and Selby played one of their fellow greats, like a Higgins, Hendry or Sullivan... If you're looking at a "peak" then surely that would have to have come in one or more of those finals, for are they not what define a career?

Record in Major Finals

MARK WILLIAMS
1998 Masters Beat Hendry 10-9
1999 World Lost to Hendry 11-18
1999 UK Beat Stevens 10-8
2000 World Beat Stevens 18-16
2000 UK Lost to Higgins 4-10
2002 Masters Lost to Hunter 9-10
2002 UK Beat Doherty 10-9
2003 Masters Beat Hendry 10-4
2003 World Beat Doherty 18-16
2010 UK Lost to Higgins 9-10
2018 World Beat Higgins 18-16

MARK SELBY
2007 World Lost to Higgins 13-18
2008 Masters Beat Lee 10-3
2009 Masters Lost to O'Sullivan 8-10
2010 Masters Beat O'Sullivan 10-9
2012 UK Beat Murphy 10-6
2013 Masters Beat Robertson 10-6
2013 UK Lost to Robertson 7-10
2014 Masters Lost to O'Sullivan 4-10
2014 World Beat O'Sullivan 18-14
2016 World Beat Ding 18-14
2016 UK Beat O'Sullivan 10-7
2017 World Beat Higgins 18-15

D4P wrote:Mark

But which one?

Selbs by far.

Andre147 wrote:MJW, not even up for debate.

The level he showed between 1998-2003, he competed with peak Hendry, peak ROS and peak Higgins. Enough said.

ROS only peaked after 2004. But I agree with the rest you said

Definitely Serena.

Somewhat questionable whether Williams "competed" with O'Sullivan, peak or otherwise. Their head-to-head in majors is,

Worlds 5-0 to Ronnie
UK's 2-0 to Ronnie
Masters 2-1 to Ronnie

badtemperedcyril wrote:Somewhat questionable whether Williams "competed" with O'Sullivan, peak or otherwise. Their head-to-head in majors is,

Worlds 5-0 to Ronnie
UK's 2-0 to Ronnie
Masters 2-1 to Ronnie

Its the UK where its 2:1 for Ronnie and Masters is 2:0 but yeah its obvious that MJW has a terrible H2H against Ronnie.

Williams

Williams leading 9-5, huge final 3 frames of the session coming up, Selby would settle for trailing 10-7 as he has come back from that in the 2014 and 2017 world final.

LOL yeah Williams leading 9-6 now is Selby on the comeback trail?

I haven't voted yet *wink wink*

NOT TODAY SONNY

Just voted for Williams to make it 10-6, last frame of the night to go!

wtf buck it's 10-7 now

this is 2014 and 2017 all over again!

It's a late night thriller!

A peak match between the two will go down similar to the Worlds 18 final I reckon, Williams will get a lead but will hold off Selby's comeback like he did vs Higgins

Williams is not gonna get grinded down and Selby knows this, he will relish the scrappy frames and with Williams long potting skills will get him in frames more quicker than Selby and will be able to make frame 50-60 breaks as Williams does

Going with Williams 18-16

Interesting that of Williams seven major titles, two were against Stevens, two against Doherty, two against a Hendry in decline and lastly his spectacular and unexpected third World crown against Higgins.

Hendry was in decline in 1998 at the age of 29?

badtemperedcyril wrote:Interesting that of Williams seven major titles, two were against Stevens, two against Doherty, two against a Hendry in decline and lastly his spectacular and unexpected third World crown against Higgins.

Hendry in decline in 1998? Give me a break.

And even 2003, he was still reaching TC Finals, had just reached the world final the year before.

He certainly wasnt in decline, just admit he was beaten by the better player, in this case MJW.

I didn’t say he was a bad player but his dominant best was 1990-96. During that period he had that aura of invincibility but by the turn of the century had become used to having to share his mantle with half a dozen others.