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career final conversion %

Postby rekoons

Thought it would be interesting to visualize the final win % of some players over their career to put things in perspective.

Data derived from Wikipedia and put in excel graph: major & minor ranking and non ranking finals, past and current, but omitted amateur finals.

You can draw your own conclusions but I think it’s clear Judd’s not there yet: at the 42 finals mark he’s at 64.3%, above Higgins (57.1%), but behind Ronnie and Hendry (both coincidently at 69%), Selby at 59.5%.

For Trump to reach the 69% mark, he would have to win 7 consecutive finals again, or 9 out of the next 10.

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Last edited by rekoons on 23 Feb 2021, edited 2 times in total.

Re: career final conversion %

Postby rekoons

Crap, something going wrong. The graph was there but is gone now. I used filebin because imgBB (what I normally use) doesn't seem to be working...

Re: career final conversion %

Postby rekoons

chengdufan wrote:Jordan Brown

100%


Was actually going to include that, but forgot.

<laugh>

Re: career final conversion %

Postby HappyCamper

I think Trump has pretty strong biphasic performance. Up until late 2018 winning about half—ish. Since then there has been a marked improvement.

Re: career final conversion %

Postby LDS

Hendry has won 35 odd rankers, yes? (give or take a couple), has a 69% win rate, but has appeared in 119 finals? Those stats don't add up.

Did you mean to write: major & minor ranking finals, non-ranking finals, past and current but omitted amateur finals?

Rather than just rankers?

Or am I missing something?

Re: career final conversion %

Postby LDS

Also, would be interesting if you included Robertson as well, he's got bag loads of finals. Just for interest reasons.

Re: career final conversion %

Postby Alex0paul

The_Abbott wrote:Mark King must be 100% too


He lost two other finals

Re: career final conversion %

Postby Dragonfly

I couldn't be bothered working out percentage etc, but of the bigger names in the sport Doherty has a poor finals record. I seem to recall him losing loads of major finals

Re: career final conversion %

Postby HappyCamper

The_Abbott wrote:Mark King must be 100% too


Michael Georgiou , even has 100% frames record!

Re: career final conversion %

Postby SnookerEd25

Alex0paul wrote:
The_Abbott wrote:Mark King must be 100% too


He lost two other finals


Dominic Dale another 100%'er? :chin:

Re: career final conversion %

Postby Juddernaut88

I think only doing conversions based on players that have reached a minimum of 10 finals in terms of fairness :)
This will rule out the likes of Jordan Brown, Dominic Dale etc

Re: career final conversion %

Postby TheRocket

Dragonfly wrote:I couldn't be bothered working out percentage etc, but of the bigger names in the sport Doherty has a poor finals record. I seem to recall him losing loads of major finals


He has a poor record but to be fair he was unlucky playing in the same era as Hendry, O'Sullivan, Higgins and Williams who were all in their prime.

He worst defeat in a big final was probably the Masters final to Stevens in 2000. The other finals he lost to the Big4.

Re: career final conversion %

Postby SnookerEd25

Doherty has a 6-11 record in ranking finals (to date :chuckle:), compiled thus :

v. Jimmy White 0-1
Alan McManus 1-1
Peter Ebdon 0-2
Stephen Hendry 2-1
John Higgins 1-2
Mark Williams 1-2
Paul Hunter 1-1
Ronnie O’Sullivan 0-1

And of course those 2 consecutive Masters final defeats to Higgins & Stevens

Re: career final conversion %

Postby Juddernaut88

SnookerEd25 wrote:Doherty has a 6-11 record in ranking finals (to date :chuckle:), compiled thus :

v. Jimmy White 0-1
Alan McManus 1-1
Peter Ebdon 0-2
Stephen Hendry 2-1
John Higgins 1-2
Mark Williams 1-2
Paul Hunter 1-1
Ronnie O’Sullivan 0-1

And of course those 2 consecutive Masters final defeats to Higgins & Stevens


So that means his win ratio in finals is 35.29%

Re: career final conversion %

Postby LDS

Juddernaut88 wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:Doherty has a 6-11 record in ranking finals (to date :chuckle:), compiled thus :

v. Jimmy White 0-1
Alan McManus 1-1
Peter Ebdon 0-2
Stephen Hendry 2-1
John Higgins 1-2
Mark Williams 1-2
Paul Hunter 1-1
Ronnie O’Sullivan 0-1

And of course those 2 consecutive Masters final defeats to Higgins & Stevens


So that means his win ratio in finals is 35.29%


No, that list doesn't include his non-rankers, to which there are dozens.

Re: career final conversion %

Postby rekoons

Chart getting a bit crowded after addition of Robbo and Ding.

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Last edited by rekoons on 24 Feb 2021, edited 1 time in total.

Re: career final conversion %

Postby Reg Varney

Alex0paul wrote:Dott’s record is marmite


To be fair, in the major events (not including stuff like the Shoot Out, Prague World Series etc.) he's ran into Hendry (twice), O'Sullivan, Robertson (twice), Higgins and Williams.

Re: career final conversion %

Postby SnookerEd25

Graeme Dott's Ranking finals record is 2-8, compiled thus :

v. Stephen Hendry 0-2
John Higgins 0-1
Ronnie O'Sullivan 0-1
Peter Ebdon 1-0
Jamie Cope 1-0
Neil Robertson 0-2
Mark Williams 0-1
Michael Georgiou 0-1 (shoot-out!)

He has also lost 2 minor ranking finals, to Ben Woolaston & Mark Selby, and has not contested an invitational final of any note; his best run in the Masters was a semi-final defeat to Mark Selby, in a decider, in 2013 - he hasn't played in it since then.

Re: career final conversion %

Postby SnookerEd25

LDS wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:Yep, top home schooling from Prop there <ok>


Oh hell, please tell me he's not a teacher, because he's fantastically wrong.


I meant rubbish home schooling <doh>

Re: career final conversion %

Postby LDS

rekoons wrote:Chart getting a bit crowded after addition of Robbo and Ding.

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That's excellent, that shows that most 'more normal' regular champions tend to even out at around a 60%, while Hendry and O'Sullivan are more anomalous with just a 10% difference. Trump's seems to be evening out right in the middle, which is probably why he's in the position he is, psychologically, because, yes, he is 'better than normal', but, no, he's not quite 'record breaker anomaly' standard [at least so far].

"Why won't you treat me like a Hendry and O'Sullivan" - "because you're not them yet".
"But I am better than everyone else" - "Yes, yes you are".

Re: career final conversion %

Postby rekoons

LDS wrote:
rekoons wrote:Chart getting a bit crowded after addition of Robbo and Ding.



That's excellent, that shows that most 'more normal' regular champions tend to even out at around a 60%, while Hendry and O'Sullivan are more anomalous with just a 10% difference. Trump's seems to be evening out right in the middle, which is probably why he's in the position he is, psychologically, because, yes, he is 'better than normal', but, no, he's not quite 'record breaker anomaly' standard [at least so far].

.


I think you're spot on here.