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Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby Holden Chinaski » 19 Feb 2021 Read

vodkadiet1 wrote:The word 'genius' the way many are referring to it is an intangible anyway. Who decides who is a genius and who isn't? It isn't a fact that anyone is a genius because a certain amount of people say it. Far more would say it isn't the case. Most people saying saying O'Sullivan is a genius aren't very bright, and are biased anyway, either through being a fanboy/girl or living in that snooker bubble where they lose the concept of reality.

If there was an actual genius in any sport they would hardly ever lose. A young Garry Kasparov would be much nearer the mark.

I think people like Ray Reardon, Steve Davis, Clive Everton and Stephen Hendry are very bright and they sure know more about snooker than you. I think those people are the only ones who can really decide if someone is a genius at playing snooker. And that's all they are saying, that Ronnie is a genius on the snooker table.

You can disagree with them, of course. But saying someone like Clive Everton or Ray Reardon is a fanboy and not very bright, that's just an idiotic comment.

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby vodkadiet1 » 19 Feb 2021 Read

Holden Chinaski wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:The word 'genius' the way many are referring to it is an intangible anyway. Who decides who is a genius and who isn't? It isn't a fact that anyone is a genius because a certain amount of people say it. Far more would say it isn't the case. Most people saying saying O'Sullivan is a genius aren't very bright, and are biased anyway, either through being a fanboy/girl or living in that snooker bubble where they lose the concept of reality.

If there was an actual genius in any sport they would hardly ever lose. A young Garry Kasparov would be much nearer the mark.

I think people like Ray Reardon, Steve Davis, Clive Everton and Stephen Hendry are very bright and they sure know more about snooker than you. I think those people are the only ones who can really decide if someone is a genius at playing snooker. And that's all they are saying, that Ronnie is a genius on the snooker table.

You can disagree with them, of course. But saying someone like Clive Everton or Ray Reardon is a fanboy and not very bright, that's just an idiotic comment.


Clive Everton is bright but he is involved in the snooker bubble. A bias prevails in this case. Anyway, these are just words. These aren't facts.

You are entitled to your wrong opinion.

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby Holden Chinaski » 19 Feb 2021 Read

vodkadiet1 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:The word 'genius' the way many are referring to it is an intangible anyway. Who decides who is a genius and who isn't? It isn't a fact that anyone is a genius because a certain amount of people say it. Far more would say it isn't the case. Most people saying saying O'Sullivan is a genius aren't very bright, and are biased anyway, either through being a fanboy/girl or living in that snooker bubble where they lose the concept of reality.

If there was an actual genius in any sport they would hardly ever lose. A young Garry Kasparov would be much nearer the mark.

I think people like Ray Reardon, Steve Davis, Clive Everton and Stephen Hendry are very bright and they sure know more about snooker than you. I think those people are the only ones who can really decide if someone is a genius at playing snooker. And that's all they are saying, that Ronnie is a genius on the snooker table.

You can disagree with them, of course. But saying someone like Clive Everton or Ray Reardon is a fanboy and not very bright, that's just an idiotic comment.


Clive Everton is bright but he is involved in the snooker bubble. A bias prevails in this case. Anyway, these are just words. These aren't facts.

You are entitled to your wrong opinion.

Clive Everton is the perfect person to decide if a snooker player is a snooker genius or not. He's not saying it about every snooker player, just about Ronnie. You are not stating any facts, just your opinion. You also showed you don't know the meaning of the word 'genius'. I'm not saying Ronnie is a genius, I'm saying if guys like Reardon and Everton say it, there might be something to it because they are experts on the subject.
I'm also trying to explain to you what the definition of the word is, but it seems you don't have the intellectual capacity to understand.

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby Holden Chinaski » 19 Feb 2021 Read

Alex0paul wrote:Why does it matter if he is or isn’t?

It doesn't matter at all. It's just that Vodka's definition of the word is wrong.

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby vodkadiet1 » 19 Feb 2021 Read

Several players have played to the same standard as O'Sullivan at his best. Maybe they are all geniuses? Or maybe none are?

This is one of those topics that go round and round. It is like debating Brexit. I suspect that those supporting Brexit have a similar amount of credibility that say O'Sullivan is a genius.

Nothing can be proven. It isn't like saying there are currently more daylight hours in the Southern Hemisphere at this time of year than the Northern Hemisphere which can be irrefutably backed up with figures.

Let's make it a criminal offence to say 'O'Sullivan isn't a genius' punishable by lethal injection!

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby Holden Chinaski » 19 Feb 2021 Read

vodkadiet1 wrote:Several players have played to the same standard as O'Sullivan at his best. Maybe they are all geniuses? Or maybe none are?

This is one of those topics that go round and round. It is like debating Brexit. I suspect that those supporting Brexit have a similar amount of credibility that say O'Sullivan is a genius.

Nothing can be proven. It isn't like saying there are currently more daylight hours in the Southern Hemisphere at this time of year than the Northern Hemisphere which can be irrefutably backed up with figures.

Let's make it a criminal offence to say 'O'Sullivan isn't a genius' punishable by lethal injection!

I have no problem at all with you saying he's not a genius. I haven't said he's a genius. I have a problem with you misunderstanding what the word means and your theory that experts like Clive Everton and Reardon are biased fanboys who don't know what they're talking about.

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby vodkadiet1 » 19 Feb 2021 Read

At what point does a player become a genius I wonder? Is there one shot that tips the balance where you emerge from also ran to genius status? What was the moment where O'Sullivan stepped in to the 'performing miracles' category?

If O'Sullivan was a genius wouldn't he be able to make a century break with the cue placed between his butt cheeks whilst performing his interpretation of Riverdance?

If he could achieve that then I will concede that he is a genius after all. But my opinion is irrelevant just like that of everyone else.

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby Iranu » 19 Feb 2021 Read

vodkadiet1 wrote:At what point does a player become a genius I wonder? Is there one shot that tips the balance where you emerge from also ran to genius status? What was the moment where O'Sullivan stepped in to the 'performing miracles' category?

If O'Sullivan was a genius wouldn't he be able to make a century break with the cue placed between his butt cheeks whilst performing his interpretation of Riverdance?

If he could achieve that then I will concede that he is a genius after all. But my opinion is irrelevant just like that of everyone else.

Did Leonardo paint with his paintbrush between his buttcheeks whilst performing his interpretation of renaissance dances?

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby Holden Chinaski » 19 Feb 2021 Read

I think there have been many points in Ronnie's career where he played certain shots and especially made special clearances where even top pro's said to themselves 'wow, that's special'. Even Stephen Hendry said he would only pay money to watch Ronnie play.

Then there's the fact that he beat prime Hendry in a UK final when he was only 17, and now so many years later he still plays great while other players tend to lose their magic when they get older. Even Reardon said Ronnie is special and does things on a snooker table which amaze him. Also, the fact Ronnie can play equally great with his left-hand is special. He is also the most successful snooker player, despite being part of the amazing class of '92.

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby vodkadiet1 » 19 Feb 2021 Read

O'Sullivan isn't the most successful snooker player until he surpasses the 7 world titles won by Hendry. And as for this class of 92 that is more hyperbole. This is beginning to sound like 'Gammon' talking about the benefits of Brexit.

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby Holden Chinaski » 19 Feb 2021 Read

vodkadiet1 wrote:O'Sullivan isn't the most successful snooker player until he surpasses the 7 world titles won by Hendry. And as for this class of 92 that is more hyperbole. This is beginning to sound like 'Gammon' talking about the benefits of Brexit.

Wrong.

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby Dragonfly » 19 Feb 2021 Read

vodkadiet1 wrote:O'Sullivan isn't the most successful snooker player until he surpasses the 7 world titles won by Hendry. And as for this class of 92 that is more hyperbole. This is beginning to sound like 'Gammon' talking about the benefits of Brexit.


The class of 92 are 3 of the greatest players the sport has ever seen. Between them they have won almost 50% of the world championships played between 92 and today. I think that speaks for itself

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby vodkadiet1 » 19 Feb 2021 Read

Dragonfly wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:O'Sullivan isn't the most successful snooker player until he surpasses the 7 world titles won by Hendry. And as for this class of 92 that is more hyperbole. This is beginning to sound like 'Gammon' talking about the benefits of Brexit.


The class of 92 are 3 of the greatest players the sport has ever seen. Between them they have won almost 50% of the world championships played between 92 and today. I think that speaks for itself


Is that why Peter Ebdon, Shaun Murphy and Graeme Dott won world titles when the class of 92 were at their so called peak?

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby Dragonfly » 19 Feb 2021 Read

vodkadiet1 wrote:
Dragonfly wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:O'Sullivan isn't the most successful snooker player until he surpasses the 7 world titles won by Hendry. And as for this class of 92 that is more hyperbole. This is beginning to sound like 'Gammon' talking about the benefits of Brexit.


The class of 92 are 3 of the greatest players the sport has ever seen. Between them they have won almost 50% of the world championships played between 92 and today. I think that speaks for itself


Is that why Peter Ebdon, Shaun Murphy and Graeme Dott won world titles when the class of 92 were at their so called peak?


Ebdon was an exceptional player and competitor. He was always capable of winning a world title. Regardless of who he was up against. Ask Hendry. There is always going to be surprising results in any sport. Murphy and Dott to be fair took their chance when chance presented itself. Keep in mind that Hendry won the majority of his world titles after 92, and Selby another all time great won his share. The class of 92 as well as competing with each other had other serious obstacles in their way

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby Andre147 » 20 Feb 2021 Read

vodkadiet1 wrote:O'Sullivan isn't the most successful snooker player until he surpasses the 7 world titles won by Hendry. And as for this class of 92 that is more hyperbole. This is beginning to sound like 'Gammon' talking about the benefits of Brexit.


He certainly doesnt need to.surpass, he just needs to equal that.

But not starting another endless GOAT debate.

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby shanew48 » 20 Feb 2021 Read

vodkadiet1 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:If the most successful people in your field of work call you a genius, there might be something to it. I've heard people like Hendry, Davis, Reardon, Higgins and MJW call Ronnie a snooker genius. Obviously, they are not saying he's a genius like Einstein. They are talking about his incredible ability as a snooker player.


They are all great snooker players but that doesn't translate in to knowing what the precise meaning of words are.

Genuine geniuses in actual fact are brilliant at many things. Unless I have missed something, O'Sullivan is positively ordinary at just about everything else.


He isn't bad at assaulting (specifically headbutting I believe) tournament directors though! if say alan robiduix had done that how long would his ban have been compared to whatever Ronnie received? is it fair to say that he receives special treatment compared to his non genius colleagues on tour?

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby vodkadiet1 » 20 Feb 2021 Read

shanew48 wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:If the most successful people in your field of work call you a genius, there might be something to it. I've heard people like Hendry, Davis, Reardon, Higgins and MJW call Ronnie a snooker genius. Obviously, they are not saying he's a genius like Einstein. They are talking about his incredible ability as a snooker player.


They are all great snooker players but that doesn't translate in to knowing what the precise meaning of words are.

Genuine geniuses in actual fact are brilliant at many things. Unless I have missed something, O'Sullivan is positively ordinary at just about everything else.


He isn't bad at assaulting (specifically headbutting I believe) tournament directors though! if say alan robiduix had done that how long would his ban have been compared to whatever Ronnie received? is it fair to say that he receives special treatment compared to his non genius colleagues on tour?


He is a genius at being a multi millionaire who avoided paying for his daughter's upbringing. The way he outfoxed the child support agency was legendary!

Re: Are they both "geniuses" ?

Postby vodkadiet1 » 20 Feb 2021 Read

Pink Ball wrote:By the way, they won their world titles when Hendry was at his peak as well. You know, that whole inconvenient truth?


Hendry was well past his best in the 2000s. In fact Hendry was past his best when he won his 7th World title in 1999. The other semi finalists were peak O'Sullivan, Williams and Higgins.

And Hendry is no genius either.
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