Post a reply

Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Monique

http://snookerscene.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... arter.html
Over the next couple of weeks I will be writing a series of posts about some of the game’s leading players, focusing on their careers, personalities and future prospects.

This first one looks at Ali Carter, a player who has realised his promise in recent seasons.

Carter first came to prominence at the 1999 Grand Prix when he beat Stephen Hendry en route to the semi-finals.

At the time this seemed like a significant breakthrough. It was a BBC event and Hendry was reigning world champion and had won the first two titles of the season.

Carter was a relative newbie but didn’t lack for self confidence and soon carved out a reputation for beating a string of established names.

But he would also develop one, whether fairly or not, for losing close matches. There was one glaring miss on a yellow against Hendry in the UK Championship and other tight contests that went against him.

However, he was also suffering from Crohn’s disease, a condition that obviously affected his performances and caused immeasurable concern for one so young.

All of the above combined to raise the question of whether he would ever live up to his early success.

Carter had been on the WPBSA’s Young Player of Distinction scheme with Shaun Murphy and Stephen Maguire but found that they were experiencing success while he had been slightly left behind.

I well recall asking Ali in a press conference at the 2005 UK Championship whether, in the light of Murphy’s world title success and Maguire’s UK triumph, he felt under pressure to emulate them.

He said that, as far as he was concerned, they weren’t better players than him and there was therefore no reason why he shouldn’t start lifting trophies.

I tended to agree that he had the game but it still remained to be seen whether he had the mental strength. In the season’s that followed he proved that he did.

Carter’s journey from the nearly man ranks to that of tournament winner began at the 2008 Championship League.

This is a popular event with the players as it affords top quality match practice with financial reward and the chance to get into the lucrative Premier League.

It was even more popular with Carter who lived only a couple of miles from the venue and he played dozens of matches without quite winning one of the groups. By appearing in all of them, though, he earned over £20,000.

More importantly, he toughened up his game on a circuit where playing opportunities seemed to be dwindling.

It was noticeable too, even in the prosaic surroundings of Crondon Park Golf Club, just how much Carter hated losing. More than once he would be berating himself as he sped away following another near failure to win a group.

But he went to the Crucible two years ago match fit and so it was that he carved out a path to the final.

It had been exhausting, especially as he wasn’t used to the rigours of the 17 day marathon. He battled long on the final Saturday to put away Joe Perry 17-15 whereas his opponent in the final, Ronnie O’Sullivan, had had the whole day off having beaten Hendry with a session to spare.

O’Sullivan would beat Carter 18-8 in the final. It was a disappointing end to the journey but there were many positives to take from the experience - not least his magnificent 147, complete with a less than straightforward final black under pressure - and take them he did, soon developing into a model of consistency.

He has appeared in at least the semi-finals eight times in the last 15 ranking tournaments, which has helped him join the top four.

In this period Carter won a maiden ranking title, the 2009 Welsh Open.

His performance in the last session against Joe Swail, when he won all six frames played, was simply superb. Carter proved he was capable of raising his game at the most important phase of the tournament.

He returned to the final last season but was blown away by an on form John Higgins. His challenge at the Crucible ultimately wilted in the semi-finals, partly because he was emotionally spent after his defeat of Shaun Murphy the previous evening and, of course, because of Neil Robertson’s superior play.

I’d be surprised if there weren’t more titles for Carter. After a few false starts he has managed to ally his self confidence to his game and find the winning formula.

I also think it helps him that he has off table interests that take up much of his time. He runs a snooker club in Chelmsford and is a qualified airline pilot. Such activities mean he is not constantly fretting about form, results and ranking.

Carter this week makes his debut in the Players Tour Championship. Like most players he will feel odd playing competitively in early July but he is the sort to grab at opportunities and make the best of them.

The challenge is to win more titles, no easy task with the game so competitive. I'm sure Ali himself would agree that while consistency is encouraging, you don't get put in the Hall of Fame (not that there is one) for reaching semi-finals. It's all about silverware and he'll be hungry for more.

It’s been a long road but Ali Carter is now one of the best players in the world, the result of dedication, self belief and, of course, his considerable talent.

And as the sport finally starts to sort itself out, he is well placed to capitalise.


I like the idea of this series and I like it that Dave chosed to start with Ali. Ali is a much underated player. I've read all sorts about him: that he has no personality, that he is boring ... whatever.
He certainly isn't boring at the table and is probably one of the most intelligent players on the circuit. In the past his temperament has been questionable at times but he's over that now for sure and he's extremely consistent. I know many will disagree but for me he is a serious contender to win the WC in the coming years.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Casey

I will certainly disagree with you. I don’t like the man/player tbh, I find him arrogant with no warrant for it.
I also think he has benefited from a drop in the standards and 1 ranking win against a 40 year old Joe Swail. It would be a disaster for the sport if he were to win the WC.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Monique

Arrogant? Ali? :chin: how?

And yes Swail isn't young but he beat Allen, Maguire and Robertson en route to that final... so he must have hit some form.

I can't see why anyone winning the WC could be a disaster for snooker and I don't think Ali's achievements are related to a drop in standard neither. Ali has been a late developer, probably Crohne desease hasn't helped him to achieve his potential. He also admitted that getting his pilot license and knowing he had a fallback solution to make a decent living would he not achieve in snooker had helped him relax and play better. Ali is not my favourite player, he's not even amongst my favourite players but it beats why people don't recognise his talent, consistency and dedication.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Casey

Its his walk, some of the comments he makes as well (after beating Swail would be one example). I suppose you are right in that Swail was the form man in getting to the final. Ali went down a few frames early on but against 'better' opposition I wouldn't be convinced he would have clawed it back.

As for his commitment to the game of that I have no doubt, I am sure he is and without it wouldn't be ranked near the top. You mentioned late developer but he was nowhere to be seen until the mid 00's when the top 4 broke up and the likes of Ebbo, Doherty, Stevens and Hunter* went into decline. On the other hand he has been good enough to take advantage of that where others have failed.

Now what I mean about being a world champion that is good for the sport, whilst this might not be a nice statement it is very true. Example if Joe Perry played Ali Carter in the final I have no doubt (sponsors as well) that worldwide public interest would decrease. Compare that to say a Ronnie v Ding final were by snooker as a whole would stand to gain much, much more from that.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Monique

It's not exactly true that Carter was nowhere to be seen before mid 00's. He won the Benson&Hedges in 1999 and that same year reached the semi of the GP, losing to John Higgins, the eventual winner and having beaten Hendry on his way. He then somehow disappeared from the radars indeed but maybe health problems had something to do with it. He was diagnosed with Crohn's disease (*) in 2003 and once treated properly his health started to improve and so did his snooker.

(*) Crohn's disease is often diagnosed years after it actually started because it's symptoms are not "characteristic".

Also I don't understand your Carter-Perry example. Their semi in 2008 was an excellent match, hard fought and tense and far better to watch that this year's final for instance (this not being a dig at Robertson and Dott ... if anything else circumstances didn't help them)

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Casey

Monique wrote:It's not exactly true that Carter was nowhere to be seen before mid 00's. He won the Benson&Hedges in 1999 and that same year reached the semi of the GP, losing to John Higgins, the eventual winner and having beaten Hendry on his way. He then somehow disappeared from the radars indeed but maybe health problems had something to do with it. He was diagnosed with Crohn's disease (*) in 2003 and once treated properly his health started to improve and so did his snooker.

(*) Crohn's disease is often diagnosed years after it actually started because it's symptoms are not "characteristic".

Also I don't understand your Carter-Perry example. Their semi in 2008 was an excellent match, hard fought and tense and far better to watch that this year's final for instance (this not being a dig at Robertson and Dott ... if anything else circumstances didn't help them)


It might have been a better match for the snooker purists such as ourselves but we are satisfied with the game on the table, its not us that needs convinced to start watching or to invest in the sport.

Neil Robertson is a perfect example of a winner that is good for the game, very marketable to investors and people who haven’t or don’t know much about the game.

The same can’t be said for all the players, this is typical in all sports – Golf, Tennis, Darts. As for Carter, maybe he illness was a factor but its my opinion that he has benefited at the right time, much as Ding, Allen & trump will benefit when Ronnie and John are gone or have declined significantly.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Monique

Of course I do see why Robertson is more "marketable" and BTW he is "marketing" the game right now ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... ion=justin
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sp ... -zxbw.html

but back on topic.
Would you have considered it a disaster for snooker if Graeme Dott had won the final last May instead of Neil Robertson? I know some actually do and said so. I can only disagree strongly. Graeme had been the better player through the tournament and coming back that way after battling depression is an awsome achievement. If people had been "downgrading" his win because he's less "marketable" I would really question wether the love this game. To me players deserve respect for their achievements irrespective of their marketing value.
I know marketing bias happens in all sports and in recent editions of the Football World Cup there have been quite a few questionable reffing decisions mostly favouring the "big" teams, which, thank God, doesn't happen in snooker ... well I hate it just the same and it is one reason I don't really follow football. The more money at stake, the more bias.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Casey

Monique wrote:Of course I do see why Robertson is more "marketable" and BTW he is "marketing" the game right now ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... ion=justin
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sp ... -zxbw.html

but back on topic.
Would you have considered it a disaster for snooker if Graeme Dott had won the final last May instead of Neil Robertson? I know some actually do and said so. I can only disagree strongly. Graeme had been the better player through the tournament and coming back that way after battling depression is an awsome achievement. If people had been "downgrading" his win because he's less "marketable" I wouldd really question wether the love this game. To me players deserve respect for their achievements irrespective of their marketing value.
I know marketing bias happens in all sports and in recent editions of the Football World Cup there have been quite a few questionable reffing decisions mostly favouring the "big" teams, which, thank God, doesn't happen in snooker ... well I hate it just the same and it is one reason I don't really follow football. The more money at stake, the more bias.


Wee Dott has a great story behind his World Championship run, his wife's' illness, his own, his father in law, criticism he faced when he won the world title, pat Mooney......

So Dott wouldd have been a very good world champion for the game but maybe for different reasons to Neil. When I said that I didn't mean any disrespect to certain players but I have no doubt that Barry wouldd have feel the same. he probably has a theoretical list in his head who he wouldd have wanted to win the WC to help him in the coming year. I wouldd bet Neil was right up there, however a Day v Carter or Hawkings v Perry match would not have done him any favours :chin:

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Wildey

im of the opinion whoever wins wins and although some players might be more makratable than others the bottom line is putting balls in holes the player that does that more often wins that week so if Carter does that at sheffield he deserves it 100% its not the players fault others more markatable and they not going to say ill lose here so that so and so can be marketed to benefit the sport.

a Player is a Player its up to the Markatable Machine to Market them Properly.

Going back to marketing and Barry Hearn he had Steve Davis to Market and he did it perfectly Steve Was Mr Boring on and Off The Table but they Marketed him as such and it worked.

Barry Hearn with Steve showed its possible to market any player.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Witz78

From memory ive never really seen eye to eye with Case on a number of issues over the years (?) but im 100% in agreement with him here, infact my views are probably even more severe than his so i will just chose to say that rather than rock the boat with my own views which will annoy people here no doubt.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:From memory ive never really seen eye to eye with Case on a number of issues over the years (?) but im 100% in agreement with him here, infact my views are probably even more severe than his so i will just chose to say that rather than rock the boat with my own views which will annoy people here no doubt.


this is a forum the idea of a forum is to put views on the table to tear strips off them if we dont agree with them...

if we all agree and say "i agree with you" from every poster then debate dies and nothing happens so spit it out lol

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Witz78

wildJONESEYE wrote:
Witz78 wrote:From memory ive never really seen eye to eye with Case on a number of issues over the years (?) but im 100% in agreement with him here, infact my views are probably even more severe than his so i will just chose to say that rather than rock the boat with my own views which will annoy people here no doubt.


this is a forum the idea of a forum is to put views on the table to tear strips off them if we dont agree with them...

if we all agree and say "i agree with you" from every poster then debate dies and nothing happens so spit it out lol


no, ive always prefered to sit on the fence and not express outspoken views :john:

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Witz78

Basically i find Carter as a player and a person BORING.

Hes a turn off to the casual snooker fan IMO. He epitomises the Highland Spring waistcoat brigade.

His Mr.Consistency tag and solid matchplaying ability coupled with this era being slightly transitional, as well as there being so few tournaments has meant he has been elevated to a far loftier ranking position than his talent warrants.

For me, of the current main tour players i could name 25 -30 id rate above Carter.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Bourne

Don't get why Carter gets such a hard gig on snooker forums. No-one makes him out to be a GOAT contender or anything, he's a solid pro who gets on with his game and has actually had the talent to be able to improve and improve over recent years, which is a credit to him.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Witz78

Monique wrote:May I ask which ones?


In no particular order...

1- O'Sullivan
2- Robertson
3-Murphy
4-Ding
5-Maguire
6-Higgins
7-Selby
8-Wenbo
9-Cope
10-Trump
11-Hendry
12-White
13-Drago
14-Dott
15-Stevens
16-Williams
17-Allen
18-Day
19-Fu
20-Ebdon
21-Lee
22-Davis
23-m.Davis
24-Doherty
25-Gould
26-Guodong
27-Lisowksi
28-Brecel

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Monique

I'm not saying Carter is a goat. But he's certainly a far better player than Cope or Liang, although I expect Liang to progress significantly. Or Stevens nowadays (or ever in my book BTW, Stevens is the most overrated player the MT has ever known!). But he never gets recognition.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Wildey

Well i always knew the torretes within witz couldnt hold off for long lol

its always a opinion and you are entitled to that.

i have not got a opinion on carter either way strong enough to put my opinion over forcefully but you cant deny his results being World no 4 and provisionally no 3.

other players are more flash more exciting players but excitement never put cash in your pockets just ask pete sampras.

he is there on merit and deserves his place there.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Monique

Witz78 wrote:
Monique wrote:May I ask which ones?


In no particular order...

1- O'Sullivan
2- Robertson
3-Murphy not sure despite a WC
4-Ding
5-Maguire no
6-Higgins
7-Selby
8-Wenbo no
9-Cope certainly not
10-Trump no
11-Hendry
12-White no
13-Drago no
14-Dott not sure
15-Stevens certainly not
16-Williams
17-Allen not sure
18-Day certainly not
19-Fu certainly not
20-Ebdon no
21-Lee no
22-Davis
23-m.Davis no
24-Doherty
25-Gould to be seen
26-Guodong too early to judge
27-Lisowksi too early
28-Brece too early

here are my feelings

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Wildey

mon

i think witz was saying he would rather watch those play rather than carter although im interested to know how much hes seen brecel play though lol

i have to say i prefer watching Carter to maguire playing......ive always thought of maguire as a hendry impersonator and just like Elvis when you seen the King no point seeing sloppy seconds <ok>

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby markj147

wildJONESEYE wrote:mon

i think witz was saying he would rather watch those play rather than carter although im interested to know how much hes seen brecel play though lol

i have to say i prefer watching Carter to maguire playing......ive always thought of maguire as a hendry impersonator and just like Elvis when you seen the King no point seeing sloppy seconds <ok>


rofl <laugh>

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Monique

wildJONESEYE wrote:mon

i think witz was saying he would rather watch those play rather than carter although im interested to know how much hes seen brecel play though lol

i have to say i prefer watching Carter to maguire playing......ive always thought of maguire as a hendry impersonator and just like Elvis when you seen the King no point seeing sloppy seconds <ok>


Wild... wanting to watch a player and ackowledging their value is something different entirely. I know Fu is a good player but he bores me to death. I know Drago is good but no more than that nowadays but he excites me.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Witz78

Will be back to continue the debate in a bit, currently attempting to last on the running machine for the duration of the Dangerous album.........

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby SnookerFan

wildJONESEYE wrote:Well i always knew the torretes within witz couldnt hold off for long lol

its always a opinion and you are entitled to that.

i have not got a opinion on carter either way strong enough to put my opinion over forcefully but you cant deny his results being World no 4 and provisionally no 3.

other players are more flash more exciting players but excitement never put cash in your pockets just ask pete sampras.

he is there on merit and deserves his place there.


That's always been my thing with Carter. You can't really have an opinion of him either way, he has the personality of a goldfish. Despite cracking the odd joke, usually after a win, you can't get excited by him, or really hate him.

Though, a few times I've seen him say a few things has annoyed me somewhat. I remember watching his match with Jimmy White at the Welsh Open last year, and some guys phone went off, making Carter lose concentration and miss a shot. Carter turned round and said; "Oh thanks a lot!" to the guy in the crowd. Now, I can understand his frustration. You are told like a million times before matches to turn your phones off, but it was just like; "Oh shut up, Carter, you fool!" Maybe because he isn't likable enough at his best to pull of being arsey.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Roland

Witz78 wrote:Will be back to continue the debate in a bit, currently attempting to last on the running machine for the duration of the Dangerous album.........


rofl

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby paperbackwriter

Everyone can be made "marketable" to some extent. There are many things about Ali Carter that could help to make him interesting in the eyes of wider public- health problems, pilot license, the fact that he was considered to lack bottle (and lost so heavily to Ronnie before) and still managed to improve his lot. Even his "arrogance" could be presented as an advantage. And I'm sure there would be countless curious details about his way to winning the title, there always are. It's only the matter of creativity and good will to make use of it all.
And it's not like it would be that hard with Carter- I've seen people who aren't really into snooker sympathizing with him during his matches. He may not be most exciting player and most distinctive character (and I'm not saying it as a bad thing) but he's likable at first impression.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Wildey

Point is if Barry Hearn managed to make Steve Davis interesting Anything is possible with anyone with the right people marketing him.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Bourne

But it's not like Carter is the most boring player though, Hendry/Day/Fu/Murphy ... all more robotic than Carter at the table IMO.

Re: Dave H focus on Ali Carter

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:But it's not like Carter is the most boring player though, Hendry/Day/Fu/Murphy ... all more robotic than Carter at the table IMO.


Hendry has become Robotic but he was never Robotic in his hay day Steve Davis is the player that defies Robotic Snooker and your Right Carter is pretty fluent and as i say if Davis was marketed Carter should be piece of snake hiss.


   

cron