Post a reply

How many World titles do you have to win to become an All-Time Great?

1
1
4%
2
1
4%
3
8
31%
4
16
62%
5 or more
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 26

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Pink Ball

You don’t need a world title to be an all-time great, but it’s extremely difficult to do it without one. Only two non-World Chanpions are in that class without a world title, and they are Ding Junhui and Jimmy White.

Ronnie O’Sullivan and Judd Trump were also all-time greats before they won the big one.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby SnookerEd25

This isn’t an exact science, its subjective; so whatever number you believe the answer to be, is the correct one.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Prop

Holden Chinaski wrote:Johnny B once won a World final playing only reverse massé shots. Legend.


Ahh yes, that was the same year they had a massive powercut and all video footage was lost. I remember it well.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Holden Chinaski

Prop wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:Johnny B once won a World final playing only reverse massé shots. Legend.


Ahh yes, that was the same year they had a massive powercut and all video footage was lost. I remember it well.

rofl

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Reg Varney

Pink Ball wrote:You don’t need a world title to be an all-time great, but it’s extremely difficult to do it without one. Only two non-World Chanpions are in that class without a world title, and they are Ding Junhui and Jimmy White.

Ronnie O’Sullivan and Judd Trump were also all-time greats before they won the big one.


Absolute nonsense (imo). I personally wouldn't class Trump as an all-time great at this very moment, let alone before he won a World title.

Not to say that he won't go on to be one, but he wouldn't even make an all-time Top Ten for me.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Pink Ball

Reg Varney wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:You don’t need a world title to be an all-time great, but it’s extremely difficult to do it without one. Only two non-World Chanpions are in that class without a world title, and they are Ding Junhui and Jimmy White.

Ronnie O’Sullivan and Judd Trump were also all-time greats before they won the big one.


Absolute nonsense (imo). I personally wouldn't class Trump as an all-time great at this very moment, let alone before he won a World title.

Not to say that he won't go on to be one, but he wouldn't even make an all-time Top Ten for me.

20 ranking titles, world number one, triple-crown winner and a world champion. He is 100% an all-time great.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Reg Varney

Pink Ball wrote:
Reg Varney wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:You don’t need a world title to be an all-time great, but it’s extremely difficult to do it without one. Only two non-World Chanpions are in that class without a world title, and they are Ding Junhui and Jimmy White.

Ronnie O’Sullivan and Judd Trump were also all-time greats before they won the big one.


Absolute nonsense (imo). I personally wouldn't class Trump as an all-time great at this very moment, let alone before he won a World title.

Not to say that he won't go on to be one, but he wouldn't even make an all-time Top Ten for me.

20 ranking titles, world number one, triple-crown winner and a world champion. He is 100% an all-time great.


Guess it all boils down to how you define being "an all-time great".

In my eyes there are only three men who I would class as all-time greats - O'Sullivan, Hendry and the Nugget.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Iranu

Reg Varney wrote:In my eyes there are only three men who I would class as all-time greats - O'Sullivan, Hendry and the Nugget.

This is way too exclusive in my opinion. Those aren’t greats, they’re the greatest. I’d say there’s a difference.

I’d see it something like this: if you were making an “all-time Masters” tournament would you include x player? If you would, or if they just barely miss the cut-off, they’re an all-time great.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby badtemperedcyril

LC wrote:Triple crowns are the benchmark

TC is stench of the BBC. There was no such thing until ten or so years ago, when they axed the old Grand Prix from its coverage and instructed Hazel to use the term TC at every possible occasion. Pre TC bullocks, they sometimes referred to the “Grand Slam” of BBC events. Let’s be honest, the UK has been degraded by its continued reduction in frames (ever since 1993). There were other majors back then - World Matchplay, British Open, Mercantile and there is now - Champion of Champions, Players Championship, China Open (pre covid). The term TC is nothing more that a vanity affair for The old BBC, who have actually betrayed the viewers in recent years. Eurosport now provide a far more comprehensive coverage.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Acé

Iranu wrote:Am I suggesting giving it to everyone? No. I’m suggesting that the (at worst) 15th most successful snooker player of all time out of many, many hundreds is an all-time great. It’s quite simple.

Did I say the CoC equalled a World Title? No. I was comparing him to Judd in terms of importance of events they’ve won, does Judd have two more World Titles? No. So why are you bringing up Williams and Selby? They’d each swap their careers with Ronnie’s in a heartbeat, does that mean they’re not all-time greats? No.

Another crowbarred tennis comparison and not even a good one. Someone like Becker or McEnroe would be a better comparison but it doesn’t make sense anyway because the sports’ achievements aren’t comparable.

Robertson’s clearly an all-time great. The most successful player not to be is probably Murphy.


15th most successful player is NOTHING the term of all-time great should never reach a rank of 15th that should only be for the really successful players with quality in their resumes.

And yeah you brought up CoC but it's not gonna equal a World Title at all so why did you bring it up? Robertson doesn't have 2 more world titles either so I don't know why you're bringing up Judd wtf are you retarded or dropped in the head when you were a kid? I already said Judd isn't an all-time great

I brought up Williams and Selby because they ARE all-time greats and Robertson would EASILY swap his career of their career's, Ronnie's career goes BEYOND all-time great into the conversation of GOAT where only 3 players are in that disucssion - Ronnie, Hendry and Davis so yeah they would swap their careers for ROnnie#s if they wanted to be in the GOAT discussion

Robertson clearly isn't an all-time great he's only got 1 world title. Need 3+

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Acé

Robertson - most overrated player in the history of the game and especially on this forum, no one rates him outside of this forum, no one puts him in all-time or GOAT discussions but this forum has a hard on for him like no other and partly due to their hate of Judd Trump

it's disgusting some fans think he's an all-time great, what a load of BS

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Iranu

Acé wrote:
Iranu wrote:Am I suggesting giving it to everyone? No. I’m suggesting that the (at worst) 15th most successful snooker player of all time out of many, many hundreds is an all-time great. It’s quite simple.

Did I say the CoC equalled a World Title? No. I was comparing him to Judd in terms of importance of events they’ve won, does Judd have two more World Titles? No. So why are you bringing up Williams and Selby? They’d each swap their careers with Ronnie’s in a heartbeat, does that mean they’re not all-time greats? No.

Another crowbarred tennis comparison and not even a good one. Someone like Becker or McEnroe would be a better comparison but it doesn’t make sense anyway because the sports’ achievements aren’t comparable.

Robertson’s clearly an all-time great. The most successful player not to be is probably Murphy.


15th most successful player is NOTHING the term of all-time great should never reach a rank of 15th that should only be for the really successful players with quality in their resumes.

And yeah you brought up CoC but it's not gonna equal a World Title at all so why did you bring it up? Robertson doesn't have 2 more world titles either so I don't know why you're bringing up Judd wtf are you retarded or dropped in the head when you were a kid? I already said Judd isn't an all-time great

I brought up Williams and Selby because they ARE all-time greats and Robertson would EASILY swap his career of their career's, Ronnie's career goes BEYOND all-time great into the conversation of GOAT where only 3 players are in that disucssion - Ronnie, Hendry and Davis so yeah they would swap their careers for ROnnie#s if they wanted to be in the GOAT discussion

Robertson clearly isn't an all-time great he's only got 1 world title. Need 3+

The 15th best player ever. Out of thousands of people who have been or tried to be professional snooker players over the years. How can you say that’s nothing? Do you not understand how impressive that actually is?

Bringing up the CoC was in reference to whether Robbo is above or below Judd. It was a complete sidenote, I don’t understand why you’re fixating on it, it had nothing to do with number of world titles or even the overall conversation of all-time greats. I was merely saying that Robbo is either 14th or 15th depending on whether you think his record is better or worse than Judd’s with his extra UK’s and that I think CoCs will be considered a major in years to come. It had buck all to do with what you said.

And don’t use the r-word. It’s disgusting.

OH MY GOD. A PLAYER WOULD SWAP HIS CAREER WITH THAT OF A MORE SUCCESSFUL PLAYER. WHAT A SHOCK. What’s your point? MJW and Selby would also swap theirs with Higgins’ career. Saying that doesn’t prove your point at all, it’s true but utterly irrelevant - there’s only one player who definitely wouldn’t swap his career with anyone else’s and that’s Stephen Hendry.

So Alex Higgins isn’t an all-time great? Come off it.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Iranu

Acé wrote:Robertson - most overrated player in the history of the game and especially on this forum, no one rates him outside of this forum, no one puts him in all-time or GOAT discussions but this forum has a hard on for him like no other and partly due to their hate of Judd Trump

it's disgusting some fans think he's an all-time great, what a load of BS

Nobody on this forum has put Robertson in a discussion for GOAT. That would be laughable.

And for the record I think Judd’s an all-time great too and my opinion about Robertson has nothing to do with Judd.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Pink Ball

So you have to be in the discussion for greatest player of all time to be considered an all-time great? In that case, there are only two all-time greats, and they are Ronnie O'Sullivan and Stephen Hendry.

But that's ridiculous. There are 15 players that I'd consider as all-time greats. And by the way, Judd Trump is definitely one of them. As is Robertson. And several players worse than them are all-time greats too.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Pink Ball

Ronnie O'Sullivan, Stephen Hendry, John Higgins, Steve Davis, Mark Williams, Ray Reardon, Mark Selby, Neil Robertson, Judd Trump, Alex Higgins, Ding Junhui, Peter Ebdon, Jimmy White, John Parrott, John Spencer. All of them are all-time greats of the game. You won't change my mind on any of them.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Holden Chinaski

badtemperedcyril wrote:
LC wrote:Triple crowns are the benchmark

TC is stench of the BBC. There was no such thing until ten or so years ago, .

Stephen Hendry has said that the Worlds, Uk and Masters were always top priority for him in his prime. Those were his exact words. The term Triple Crown didn't exist, but apparently, those 3 tournaments were top priority for guys like Hendry. And that was much more than 10 years ago.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Pink Ball

Yeah, but now people don't give a rubbish about players who won the Classic, the British Open, the Grand Prix. Even the Irish Masters and Scottish Masters were seriously respected titles in their day.

The UK Championship was definitely the second biggest event, but it was a free-for-all for third place.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby SnookerEd25

Pink Ball wrote:Yeah, but now people don't give a rubbish about players who won the Classic, the British Open, the Grand Prix. Even the Irish Masters and Scottish Masters were seriously respected titles in their day.

The UK Championship was definitely the second biggest event, but it was a free-for-all for third place.


I grew up in that era and the Grand Prix, Classic and British Open were serious majors, they all had 2 session SF's and 2 day finals. Much more prestigious.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Holden Chinaski

SnookerEd25 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Yeah, but now people don't give a rubbish about players who won the Classic, the British Open, the Grand Prix. Even the Irish Masters and Scottish Masters were seriously respected titles in their day.

The UK Championship was definitely the second biggest event, but it was a free-for-all for third place.


I grew up in that era and the Grand Prix, Classic and British Open were serious majors, they all had 2 session SF's and 2 day finals. Much more prestigious.

But Stephen Hendry said the Triple Crown tournaments were always top priority for him. Ronnie has said the same.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Pink Ball

SnookerEd25 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Yeah, but now people don't give a rubbish about players who won the Classic, the British Open, the Grand Prix. Even the Irish Masters and Scottish Masters were seriously respected titles in their day.

The UK Championship was definitely the second biggest event, but it was a free-for-all for third place.


I grew up in that era and the Grand Prix, Classic and British Open were serious majors, they all had 2 session SF's and 2 day finals. Much more prestigious.

I don't remember the Grand Prix having a two-day final, but I think it had more players starting out.

Those three tournaments were huge in their heyday. Jimmy White won all three, but people point out that he only won the UK once and Masters once. It's very unfair.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby SnookerEd25

Pink Ball wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Yeah, but now people don't give a rubbish about players who won the Classic, the British Open, the Grand Prix. Even the Irish Masters and Scottish Masters were seriously respected titles in their day.

The UK Championship was definitely the second biggest event, but it was a free-for-all for third place.


I grew up in that era and the Grand Prix, Classic and British Open were serious majors, they all had 2 session SF's and 2 day finals. Much more prestigious.

I don't remember the Grand Prix having a two-day final, but I think it had more players starting out.

Those three tournaments were huge in their heyday. Jimmy White won all three, but people point out that he only won the UK once and Masters once. It's very unfair.


Yeah you're right, my bad. I was thinking of the Jameson International that had a BO23 final...

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Pink Ball

Holden Chinaski wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Yeah, but now people don't give a rubbish about players who won the Classic, the British Open, the Grand Prix. Even the Irish Masters and Scottish Masters were seriously respected titles in their day.

The UK Championship was definitely the second biggest event, but it was a free-for-all for third place.


I grew up in that era and the Grand Prix, Classic and British Open were serious majors, they all had 2 session SF's and 2 day finals. Much more prestigious.

But Stephen Hendry said the Triple Crown tournaments were always top priority for him. Ronnie has said the same.

And he's talking through his hoop. The British Open and Classic were certainly more prestigious than the Masters during the 1980s.


   

cron