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How many World titles do you have to win to become an All-Time Great?

1
1
4%
2
1
4%
3
8
31%
4
16
62%
5 or more
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 26

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Dragonfly

I voted 3. Williams is certainly an all time great. Won loads of other stuff too.

I have always struggled with the whole Alex Higgins legend thing. Ok he won 2 and not a huge amount otherwise. His win in 82 was hugely helped by Davis early exit. Is he better than Robertson with 1 win. Absolutely no way.

I think anyone who wins 3 is up there with the best of the best.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby TheRocket

HappyCamper wrote:No requirement imho.


cant really agree tbh. I know Jimmy is often called ATG but thats mainly because the fans loved him.

Ding is the player who has had the best career stats without ever winning the WC. But I dont think any pundit or the Snookerworld in general called him ATG.
And Robertson has had a better career than Ding and Jimmy and won a World title but is he an ATG? Probably not. Fantastic player but his poor WC record is being mentioned a lot of times.

World titles cant be the only benchmark but its definitely the most important one to become an ATG.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby SnookerFan

Dan-cat wrote:Interesting. I said 4. I think in honesty it would also depend on what else they had done


I'd go for this.

Also, kind of depends on era etc. World Championships is an important factor in deciding who is an ATG, maybe the most important, but it's not the only factor. If it was, Joe Davis is a greater player than Ronnie, Hendry and Steve Davis.

It's hard to come up with one definition of what you need to achieve to be considered an All Time Great.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Acé

3 but only if they have rounded off their careers with multiple other TC events and won 15-20 ranking events like the likes of Williams and Selby

those 2 are the benchmark for ascension to ATG levels

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Acé

To have your hat thrown in GOAT discussions it has to be 5 or more WCs with about 10 more TC events and 30+ ranking events

as ROS, Hendry, and Davis hover each other on those similar level of numbers

ROS - 20 TCs, 6 Worlds, 37 rankings
Hendry - 18 TCs, 7 worlds, 36 rankings
Steve Davis - 15 TCs, 6 Worlds, 28 rankings (exception cuz he won lot of big non-ranking events but so did the other 2 above)

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Acé

Although it's arguable the criteria might've changed as ROS has a 6th World now and the big 3 of Hendry, ROS and Davis group doesn't have anyone with 5 WCs anymore...hard to say

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Andre147

I'd say 3.

But it depends... a player could have won 2 and won loads of other tournaments. If Robertson wins a 2nd he certainly should be considered an All Time Great for everything else he's won.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Iranu

Four is way too many and anyone who voted four is insane. You’re saying there have only been 5 all-time greats since the 70s. I’d like to know how you define ‘all-time great’ and justify excluding the likes of Williams, Spencer, Selby, Alex Higgins.

Honestly I’m tempted to agree with McManusFan but definitely wouldn’t go any higher than 2. There are other factors to consider besides World Championship wins. Dott and Robertson aren’t equal in this discussion just because they each have one world title, for example.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby TheRocket

So 3 seems to be the magic number for a lot of people. I think it used to be 2 but Selby and Williams both got to 3 and that probably changed the things a little bit.

Its only Alex Higgins and Walter Donaldson (if you include the old era) who "only" won it twice out of the people who won it multiple times. 11 of the 13 multiple World Champs won it at least three times.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby chengdufan

Presumably we're using the adjective 'all-time' to describe the period from the invention of snooker to the present day?

If so, we're talking about how many world titles would be needed to be considered for entry into the very top tier of players.
For me, the very top tier at present includes Davis, Reardon, Davis, Hendry, Higgins and O'Sullivan.

Trump might get into this tier in the future with 3, depending on how things go. 3 world titles alone isn't enough, but would be a minimum.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Ronnie79

People talk an awful lot of sh1te on here. Alex Higgins will always be remembered as a great of the game he transcended the sport made the sport. Neil Robertson will go down as a great of the game he will win dozens of tournaments make a thousand centuries but he will be remembered as a great of the game even if he only wins one world. As will Jimmy White. This nonsense about 3,4,or 5 World titles to be called an all time great. There is more to the package. Will Ding not be remembered as a great of the game. Like in golf and tennis players miss on out majors. It does not make the less of a great

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby chengdufan

Ronnie79 wrote:People talk an awful lot of sh1te on here. Alex Higgins will always be remembered as a great of the game he transcended the sport made the sport. Neil Robertson will go down as a great of the game he will win dozens of tournaments make a thousand centuries but he will be remembered as a great of the game even if he only wins one world. As will Jimmy White. This nonsense about 3,4,or 5 World titles to be called an all time great. There is more to the package. Will Ding not be remembered as a great of the game. Like in golf and tennis players miss on out majors. It does not make the less of a great

You're saying an 'all-time great' is the same as merely a 'great', right?

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Acé

Ronnie79 wrote:People talk an awful lot of sh1te on here. Alex Higgins will always be remembered as a great of the game he transcended the sport made the sport. Neil Robertson will go down as a great of the game he will win dozens of tournaments make a thousand centuries but he will be remembered as a great of the game even if he only wins one world. As will Jimmy White. This nonsense about 3,4,or 5 World titles to be called an all time great. There is more to the package. Will Ding not be remembered as a great of the game. Like in golf and tennis players miss on out majors. It does not make the less of a great


Except the guys with 3+ world titles also have more to the package it's not like they just have WCs they've all got multiple other TC wins and 20+ ranking events

Robertson or Ding won't go down as ATGs until they start winning more WCs...they have the package but don't have the WCs

Heck Robertson was asked about equalling or passing Selby's ranking events once and he said "but he's got 3 World titles", there you have it.

Guys like Judd, Robertson basically have covered everything, just need few more world titles to become ATGs

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Dan-cat

chengdufan wrote:
Ronnie79 wrote:People talk an awful lot of sh1te on here. Alex Higgins will always be remembered as a great of the game he transcended the sport made the sport. Neil Robertson will go down as a great of the game he will win dozens of tournaments make a thousand centuries but he will be remembered as a great of the game even if he only wins one world. As will Jimmy White. This nonsense about 3,4,or 5 World titles to be called an all time great. There is more to the package. Will Ding not be remembered as a great of the game. Like in golf and tennis players miss on out majors. It does not make the less of a great

You're saying an 'all-time great' is the same as merely a 'great', right?



Who has decided on this distinction/definition?

Alex Higgins is an all-time great. An absolute behemoth of the game without whom this forum probably wouldn't exist. I'll fight anyone who thinks otherwise.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Iranu

chengdufan wrote:
Ronnie79 wrote:People talk an awful lot of sh1te on here. Alex Higgins will always be remembered as a great of the game he transcended the sport made the sport. Neil Robertson will go down as a great of the game he will win dozens of tournaments make a thousand centuries but he will be remembered as a great of the game even if he only wins one world. As will Jimmy White. This nonsense about 3,4,or 5 World titles to be called an all time great. There is more to the package. Will Ding not be remembered as a great of the game. Like in golf and tennis players miss on out majors. It does not make the less of a great

You're saying an 'all-time great' is the same as merely a 'great', right?

There’s no difference. It’s not like there are “three-year greats”.

Re: How many World titles to become an ATG?

Postby Iranu

Acé wrote:
Ronnie79 wrote:People talk an awful lot of sh1te on here. Alex Higgins will always be remembered as a great of the game he transcended the sport made the sport. Neil Robertson will go down as a great of the game he will win dozens of tournaments make a thousand centuries but he will be remembered as a great of the game even if he only wins one world. As will Jimmy White. This nonsense about 3,4,or 5 World titles to be called an all time great. There is more to the package. Will Ding not be remembered as a great of the game. Like in golf and tennis players miss on out majors. It does not make the less of a great


Except the guys with 3+ world titles also have more to the package it's not like they just have WCs they've all got multiple other TC wins and 20+ ranking events

Robertson or Ding won't go down as ATGs until they start winning more WCs...they have the package but don't have the WCs

Heck Robertson was asked about equalling or passing Selby's ranking events once and he said "but he's got 3 World titles", there you have it.

Guys like Judd, Robertson basically have covered everything, just need few more world titles to become ATGs

Robertson is definitely an all-time great. If we agree that multiple world champions top the list in order of number of victories (which I partially agree with), Robertson is either the 14th or 15th most successful player ever with Judd the only single-time world champion with more ranking event wins but two fewer UK Championships, so it depends how much you value those. If we discount the pre-open-era players he’s in the top 10.

Denying Robertson is an all-time great is ridiculous.

Edit: Robbo’s also won two Champion of Champions which if it stays on the calendar, will be considered a larger factor alongside the TCs.
Last edited by Iranu on 06 Jan 2021, edited 1 time in total.