Brave or stupid?

To put a green, white and orange colour scheme in place for a tournament claiming to be the Northern Ireland Open? Would snake hiss off more than half of Northern Ireland's community if they all watched snooker.

I quite like it myself. Gives the event a much needed Irish vibe despite it being staged in Milton Keynes.

Why can't we all just get along?

This would have been the perfect season to reintroduce the “Irish Masters”. No need to try to find a venue in Ireland.

Cloud Strife wrote:I quite like it myself. Gives the event a much needed Irish vibe despite it being staged in Milton Keynes.

I agree, but more than half of the people from 'Northern Ireland' don't consider themselves to be Irish. The shamrock logo is fine, the shamrock is an agreed symbol, the tricolour isn't.

Pink Ball wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:I quite like it myself. Gives the event a much needed Irish vibe despite it being staged in Milton Keynes.

I agree, but more than half of the people from 'Northern Ireland' don't consider themselves to be Irish. The shamrock logo is fine, the shamrock is an agreed symbol, the tricolour isn't.

Couldn't give a toss, quite frankly.

If I had my way, the north would be forcibly reunited with the south.

Cloud Strife wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:I quite like it myself. Gives the event a much needed Irish vibe despite it being staged in Milton Keynes.

I agree, but more than half of the people from 'Northern Ireland' don't consider themselves to be Irish. The shamrock logo is fine, the shamrock is an agreed symbol, the tricolour isn't.

Couldn't give a toss, quite frankly.

If I had my way, the north would be forcibly reunited with the south.

Neither do I, but the sad reality is that they do care and it's 'their' tournament. Anything Northern Ireland is a minefield.

Pink Ball wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:I quite like it myself. Gives the event a much needed Irish vibe despite it being staged in Milton Keynes.

I agree, but more than half of the people from 'Northern Ireland' don't consider themselves to be Irish. The shamrock logo is fine, the shamrock is an agreed symbol, the tricolour isn't.

Couldn't give a toss, quite frankly.

If I had my way, the north would be forcibly reunited with the south.

Neither do I, but the sad reality is that they do care and it's 'their' tournament. Anything Northern Ireland is a minefield.

Well, I would like to suggest to those who care so much about these things that they should go on a hunger strike to voice their protest, whilst the rest of us can carry on with life as usual.

Nationalists are just as much part of Northern Ireland as unionists. And the tricolour is meant to be a unifying symbol anyways. The orange represents Protestantism, no.

They used to have United Ireland teams at the world cup. Did anyone in snooker care back then. All seems a bit petty.

HappyCamper wrote:Nationalists are just as much part of Northern Ireland as unionists. And the tricolour is meant to be a unifying symbol anyways. The orange represents Protestantism, no.

You are bang on. The colours were chosen as a message of unity. Green is catholocism, orange is protestantism. The white signifies peace between both.

The problem with the flag is on both sides. Some Republicans hijacked it and waved it about whatever chance they got. So Unionists not clever enough to see the problem was with the people waving the flag, not the flag itself, chose to see the flag as a divisive symbol.

The flag is fine, but we can only move as quickly as our slowest members. And in Northern Ireland, the slow are really bucking slow.

HappyCamper wrote:They used to have United Ireland teams at the world cup. Did anyone in snooker care back then. All seems a bit petty.

Correct. Unified Ireland teams can be found in some sports. The problem is that most unionists will accept that they are living on the island of Ireland, therefore they don't mind playing under the Ireland banner. They just don't agree that living in Ireland makes them Irish.

When I read the OP of this thread I assumed this... 'issue'?.. was something Pink had just invented due to a lack of other things to stir up talk about that don't involve Yan Bingtao, but people are talking about it with him as if people, as in more than one, are actually making an issue out of this.

Is there a link to some actual debate here or is Pink trying to invent stir up create a debate?

Eidt: and am I being brave or stupid for asking??????

LDS wrote:When I read the OP of this thread I assumed this... 'issue'?.. was something Pink had just invented due to a lack of other things to stir up talk about that don't involve Yan Bingtao, but people are talking about it with him as if people, as in more than one, are actually making an issue out of this.

Is there a link to some actual debate here or is Pink trying to invent stir up create a debate?

Eidt: and am I being brave or stupid for asking??????

Have you heard of the Northern Ireland conflict? It's a thing. It used to be a terrible thing, then it got better, and then it simmered up again after the Brexit referendum.

Google it. rubbish got real serious up there.

Sure, but is anyone apart from you talking about snooker decorations....

As in, you've phrased your supposition as "people WILL be offended", you haven't phrased it as "do YOU think people will be offended" or indeed "I find this offensive".

In an age where we're all supposed to be being less presumptive of what other people think or would like, your proposition just comes across as very presumptive.

You know, like, you're making broad generalisations about a specific community. Dare I say there's an element of appropriation in your stance. You are appropriating the pre-conception of a Northern Irish person in order to present your position.

If you are Northern Irish, or indeed Irish, sure then that wouldn't be the case, but then, if you were one of those two, why not start your proposition from a position of "I'm offended" instead of from a position of "surely THEY will be offended".

chengdufan wrote:Why can't we all just get along?

Come now, ChengduFan; this is the 21st Century - we all have to be angry with each other about something or we may as well shut the internet down & go back to reading books

LDS wrote:As in, you've phrased your supposition as "people WILL be offended", you haven't phrased it as "do YOU think people will be offended" or indeed "I find this offensive".

In an age where we're all supposed to be being less presumptive of what other people think or would like, your proposition just comes across as very presumptive.

You know, like, you're making broad generalisations about a specific community. Dare I say there's an element of appropriation in your stance. You are appropriating the pre-conception of a Northern Irish person in order to present your position.

If you are Northern Irish, or indeed Irish, sure then that wouldn't be the case, but then, if you were one of those two, why not start your proposition from a position of "I'm offended" instead of from a position of "surely THEY will be offended".

I am Irish, and I know more than enough to know how unreasonable certain people are in Northern Ireland. My presumption is well bucking placed.

SnookerEd25 wrote:

chengdufan wrote:Why can't we all just get along?

Come now, ChengduFan; this is the 21st Century - we all have to be angry with each other about something or we may as well shut the internet down & go back to reading books

Trust me, a significant minority in Northern Ireland loved getting offended before it was cool.

Pink Ball wrote:I am Irish, and I know more than enough to know how unreasonable they are in Northern Ireland. My presumption is well bucking placed.

Well, if you don't find the decorations offensive and, as yet, no-one from Northern Ireland has remarked on the topic, and you are not making your proposition from a personal position, but rather a position of insinuation, don't you think that you're, to all intents and purposes, coming across as someone who is going out of your way to attract unreasonable people who, otherwise, wouldn't have batted an eyelid?

You know, deliberately shit-stirring? Verging on the deliberately racist? Incendiary-minded at the very least?

LDS wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:I am Irish, and I know more than enough to know how unreasonable they are in Northern Ireland. My presumption is well bucking placed.

Well, if you don't find the decorations offensive and, as yet, no-one from Northern Ireland has remarked on the topic, and you are not making your proposition from a personal position, but rather a position of insinuation, don't you think that you're, to all intents and purposes, coming across as someone who is going out of your way to attract unreasonable people who, otherwise, wouldn't have batted an eyelid?

You know, deliberately shit-stirring? Verging on the deliberately racist? Incendiary-minded at the very least?

LDS, I love your posts, they are a breath of fresh air.
I suggest you have a look through Pink Ball's posting history. You will (sorry, may, didn't mean to be presumptive) come to love him.

I'm guessing I'll have no choice in the matter Chen

LDS wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:I am Irish, and I know more than enough to know how unreasonable they are in Northern Ireland. My presumption is well bucking placed.

Well, if you don't find the decorations offensive and, as yet, no-one from Northern Ireland has remarked on the topic, and you are not making your proposition from a personal position, but rather a position of insinuation, don't you think that you're, to all intents and purposes, coming across as someone who is going out of your way to attract unreasonable people who, otherwise, wouldn't have batted an eyelid?

You know, deliberately shit-stirring? Verging on the deliberately racist? Incendiary-minded at the very least?

If I were 'going out of my way' to deliberately shit-stir, don't you think I'd use a more powerful platform than a backwater snooker forum to raise the issue? Such as Twitter? I am on Twitter, but I certainly won't be posting it on there for the reasons you mention.

As for insinuation, I think the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland would not necessarily be okay about these decorations, but certainly a significant majority of even perfectly reasonable people in Northern Ireland would also be offended. They see themselves as British, not Irish, and they have every right to that belief. This is why we use neutral symbols in Ireland and, unfortunately, the Irish flag is not a neutral symbol, even if it is a very well-meaning one by those who constructed it.

As for being racist or incendiary minded, I'd be a bit more careful about using terms like that. There are a minority of people in both major communities in Northern Ireland that I cannot stand, and I think anybody reasonable would not be able to stand them. Because I'm referring to actual terrorists or terrorist sympathisers when I say that. Extreme Republicans and extreme Unionists. I'm not going to apologise for disliking them.

The vast majority of people in Northern Ireland, as clichéd as it sounds, are fine people. It's clichéd because people use it all the time, but people use it all the time as it is true.

chengdufan wrote:

LDS wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:I am Irish, and I know more than enough to know how unreasonable they are in Northern Ireland. My presumption is well bucking placed.

Well, if you don't find the decorations offensive and, as yet, no-one from Northern Ireland has remarked on the topic, and you are not making your proposition from a personal position, but rather a position of insinuation, don't you think that you're, to all intents and purposes, coming across as someone who is going out of your way to attract unreasonable people who, otherwise, wouldn't have batted an eyelid?

You know, deliberately shit-stirring? Verging on the deliberately racist? Incendiary-minded at the very least?

LDS, I love your posts, they are a breath of fresh air.
I suggest you have a look through Pink Ball's posting history. You will (sorry, may, didn't mean to be presumptive) come to love him.

I appreciate the defence of me, but I didn't like his post at all. I joke about everything, but I'm being serious here and certainly not attempting to stir rubbish amongst people from Northern Ireland. I have my faults, but I'm better than that.

Best not to make an issue where there currently isn't one yet then, surely?

Constantly repeating "I think the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland would not necessarily be okay about these decorations", doesn't really help your cause. One could suggest your are simply continuing to dig your hole...

You could well be right. However, now you've raised the issue yourself, no-one will have any idea if the issue only arose because of you.

This might be a backwater forum in your eyes, but that doesn't mean a Northern Irish clickbait journalist wont be viewing it, and, wow, you've just dropped them an idea for a few thousand easy views.

So, no, I don't think the relative size of the venue where you ply your routine is of any great consequence to the potential terrorism-factor of it.

I mean, I didn't start a thread on the potential skinhead sympathising implications of one of Ronnie O'Sullivan's choice of haircuts, even though Essex is renown for it's skinhead problem, just because, well, no-one ever mentioned it.... so it wasn't an issue.

You know what I mean?

LDS wrote:Best not to make an issue where there currently isn't one yet then, surely?

Constantly repeating "I think the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland would not necessarily be okay about these decorations", doesn't really help your cause. One could suggest your are simply continuing to dig your hole...

You could well be right. However, now you've raised the issue yourself, no-one will have any idea if the issue only arose because of you.

This might be a backwater forum in your eyes, but that doesn't mean a Northern Irish clickbait journalist wont be viewing it, and, wow, you've just dropped them an idea for a few thousand easy views.

So, no, I don't think the relative size of the venue where you ply your routine is of any great consequence to the potential terrorism-factor of it.

I mean, I didn't start a thread on the potential skinhead sympathising implications of one of Ronnie O'Sullivan's choice of haircuts, even though Essex is renown for it's skinhead problem, just because, well, no-one ever mentioned it.... so it wasn't an issue.

You know what I mean?

I don't think you're being as clever as you think you are here. "Best not to make an issue where there currently isn't one yet then, surely?" Well actually, there is an issue here. I'm not offended by the tricolour because I am Irish. If, for example, WST used British symbolism for an event called the Northern Ireland Open, I would be offended. Deeply offended, actually.

I have not created an issue. I have spotted an issue. There IS an issue. WST has actually screwed up here. And that's not my fault.

Do you think it would be wise, for instance, for WST to run a Palistinian Open and then use the Israeli colour scheme? Or vice versa?

If a journalist wrote about it, it wouldn't necessarily be a clickbait article. They could write about a WST fuck-up, and they'd actually have every right to write about it. In fact, I'd suggest that a journalist up there would be compelled to write about it.

I mean, I didn't start a thread on the potential skinhead sympathising implications of one of Ronnie O'Sullivan's choice of haircuts, even though Essex is renown for it's skinhead problem, just because, well, no-one ever mentioned it.... so it wasn't an issue.

Bizarre comment. I don't think shaving your head is anywhere near as universally divisive as using an Irish or British flag as part of your colour scheme for a tournament based in Northern Ireland.

Is Peter Ebdon a skinhead?

Just out of interest, I'll take a quick search to see if anyone on Twitter has been talking about it.

...YUP

So it is in fact you that is offended and it is in fact you who wants to make an issue out of it, but you want to phrase it as "Other people will want to make an issue out of it" because for some reason you have a self-image that it's not you that is the one having issues, right?

And, no it's not a bizzare comparison, however, you're immediate dismissal of my comparison with extreme flippancy does indeed display your completely myopic world-view and entirely self-centred approach to difficult topics. If Pink thinks its an issue IT'S AN ISSUE. If Pink doesn't think it's an issue IT'S NOT AN ISSUE.

As someone who lives very close to Essex an has had relations attacked by skinheads in Essex, I think I would also have had the right to raise this issue you decide by your almighty righteousness in supposedly a NON-ISSUE, however, when someone suggests your regional sensitivities are potentially a NON-ISSUE, oh my, let's all feel the wrath... eh?

Holden Chinaski wrote:Is Peter Ebdon a skinhead?

Nah, he's bald. Also, balding people, ie: part-balding people will usually shave it all off rather than faff about with hairstyles that fail to hide the partial balding.

However, a player renown for a nice head of hair, shaving all off, and being from Essex, well, any good clickbiat artist could do something with that ;)

Pink Ball wrote:...YUP

Awesome, 3 people are currently offended. Let's help them magnify this.