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Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby LDS

In the grand scheme of fan-based ardour, John Parrott is IMO the most underrated of the great snooker players.

He was extremely quick around the table, had a very likeable persona, good for regular high-scoring flowing breaks, had the popularity inducing underdog vibe versus Davis and Hendry, and yet he never got the level of adoration that followed other similar players like Kirk Stevens, Jimmy White, Alex Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan. The only reason for this that I can think of is that he also wasn't easy tabloid fodder and didn't tend towards exhibition shots ;)

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby badtemperedcyril

LDS wrote:In the grand scheme of fan-based ardour, John Parrott is IMO the most underrated of the great snooker players.

He was extremely quick around the table, had a very likeable persona, good for regular high-scoring flowing breaks, had the popularity inducing underdog vibe versus Davis and Hendry, and yet he never got the level of adoration that followed other similar players like Kirk Stevens, Jimmy White, Alex Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan. The only reason for this that I can think of is that he also wasn't easy tabloid fodder and didn't tend towards exhibition shots ;)

And, what cue power! Boy, did he crunch them in.

As far as all time greatness is concerned, I'd have to place Parrott above all the other "one time" World Champions, with the exception of Robertson and Trump.

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby LDS

That's an interesting take. I was talking about about that aggressive-love fanbase though, you know, the kind that generates shouting audiences and drooling obsessive fanboys and tabloid personas that equate to "People's Champion" for whatever reason. Trump and Robertson are kinda similar to Parrott in this regard funnily enough, though they both do the exhibition shots as well and Trump is a tabloid favourite as far as I know (?)

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby Holden Chinaski

LDS wrote:That's an interesting take. I was talking about about that aggressive-love fanbase though, you know, the kind that generates shouting audiences and drooling obsessive fanboys and tabloid personas that equate to "People's Champion" for whatever reason. Trump and Robertson are kinda similar to Parrott in this regard funnily enough, though they both do the exhibition shots as well and Trump is a tabloid favourite as far as I know (?)

Some people just have that special something. Maybe it's charisma. Alex Higgins had it. Jimmy had it. Ronnie has it. Just something special about them. They have this exciting, electric energy.

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby chengdufan

Let's have a look at 22 players who are now in the top 128.
Dominic Dale (b.1971)
Darryn Walker (b.1972)
Colin Morton (b.1960)
Terry Murphy (b.1972)
Yasin Merchant (b.1966)
Steve Judd (b.1968)
Mark King (b.1974)
Mark Flowerdew (b.1971)
Surinder Gill (b.1968)
Antony Bolsover (b.1972)
Jamie Burnett (b.1975)
Chris Scanlon (b.1975)
Adrian Rosa (b.1971)
Mark O'Sullivan (b.1975)
Nick Walker (b.1973)
Lee Richardson (b.1971)
Gary Ponting (b.1975)
Matthew Couch (b.1974)
Noppadon Noppachorn (b.1968)
Gerard Greene (b.1973)
Tai Pichit (b.1963)
Stuart Pettman (b.1975)

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby chengdufan

1994 Dubai Classic - Al Nasr Stadium, Dubai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Dubai_Classic

Held in early October, this was the first event of the 1994-95 season. It followed the qualifying rounds of the first 5 ranking events of the season, which took place over the previous three months.

Alan McManus won the event, beating Peter Ebdon 9-6 in the final. The Scotsman took an early (almost typed quick, but it probably wasn't!) 3-0 lead, but was pegged back to 4-4. He had the edge in the later stages though.
There were only 2 breaks over 50 in the final, and only 3 century breaks in total at the venue stages of the event, which ran from the last 32 stage onwards. Those must have been some tough playing conditions! Big credit therefore goes to those who did manage a century, Ebdon (130 SF v O'Sullivan), Doherty (127 QF v Hendry), and O'Sullivan (104 L32 v Finbow).

Alain Robidoux showed signs in this event that he may have a return to form. He beat Wattana and Roe on his way to the quarters.
And Dominic Dale started to make some headway in the rankings, reaching the last 16.

Graeme Dott and Matthew Stevens fared well in their first ever ranking event. Dott reached the venue, beating Joe Johnson along the way. And Stevens made it as far as the last 48, losing out to Robidoux.

Brian Rowswell, who has been a solid player ranked in the 50-100 range for a good few years and one of the few players in that bracket to maintain his position in these open entry years, qualified for the venue. He had had notable wins over Jason Ferguson and Anthony Davies along the way. Disappointingly though he withdrew and did not play in Dubai, gifting eventual winner McManus a bye in the L32. What a shame! I wonder if it were due to the cost of travel? a visa problem?...

QFs:
Alan McManus (5) 5-4 Nigel Bond (11)
Stephen Hendry (1) 5-4 Ken Doherty (8)
Peter Ebdon (10) 5-3 Alain Robidoux (37)
Ronnie O'Sullivan (6) 5-2 Martin Clark (22)

SFs:
McManus (5) 6-4 Hendry (1)
Ebdon (10) 6-4 O'Sullivan (6)

Final:
McManus (5) 9-6 Ebdon (10)

Following the event...

Top 4
1, Stephen Hendry 26443
2. Steve Davis 20845
3. Jimmy White 20261
4. James Wattana 18181

Co92
6. Ronnie O'Sullivan 16778
14. John Higgins 6334
43. Mark Williams 3553

Top 16
In: John Higgins; Martin Clark
Out: Tony Drago; Joe Swail

Top 32
In: Billy Snaddon; Alain Robidoux; Mark King
Out: Stephen Lee; Tony Knowles; Jason Ferguson

Top 64
In: Dominic Dale; Terry Murphy; Brian Rowswell; Ian Brumby; Karl Payne; Chris Small; Stefan Mazrocis
Out: Mark Bennett; Jason Prince; Paul McPhillips; Tony Chappel; Danny Fowler; Jonathan Birch; Jim Wych

Top 128
In: Michael Judge; Roger Garrett; Paul Cavney; Graeme Dott; Jeff Cundy; Leigh Robinson; Euan Henderson
Out: Colin Morton; Mark O'Sullivan; Tai Pichit; Paul Tanner; Steve Duggan; John Giles; Kirk Stevens

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby chengdufan

1994 Grand Prix - Assembly Rooms, Derby
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Grand_Prix_(snooker)

What a stonker of an event this was! The results from the quarter-final on were incredible really. Let's have a look...

QFs:
Joe Swail (25) 5-4 Jimmy Michie (84)
John Higgins (14) 5-0 Ronnie O'Sullivan (6)
Andy Hicks (15) 5-3 Steve Davis (2)
Dave Harold (12) 5-2 Stephen Hendry (1)

SFs:
Higgins (14) 9-5 Swail (25)
Harold (12) 9-8 Hicks (15)

Final:
Higgins (14) 9-6 Harold (12)

The shocks were not as shocking as Wikipedia and the real rankings would have you believe, but nevertheless, to not have any of the top 8 in the semi-finals would have been unthikable prior to the event. Those 8 had been dominant to such an extent over the last 3 years.

So John Higgins won his first ranking title aged 19, beating 27 year old Dave Harold in the final. His run included wins over Karl Broughton (92), Willie Thorne (24), Martin Clark (16), James Wattana (4), Ronnie O'Sullivan (6), Joe Swail (25), and Harold (12)

The event was also significant for Jimmy Michie, who beat Peter Ebdon and Nigel Bond on his way to the quarters, and for Wayne Brown, who won 8 matches before succumbing to Joe Swail in the last 16. 24-year-old Brown had not entered any ranking events prior to this season.

Following the event...
Top 4
1. Stephen Hendry 24986
2. Steve Davis 20351
3. Jimmy White 19849
4. James Wattana 17733

Co92
6. Ronnie O'Sullivan 16416
12. John Higgins 9830
46. Mark Williams 3502

Top 16
In: Joe Swail
Out: Martin Clark

Top 32
In Dean Reynolds; Stephen Lee
Out: Dene O'Kane; Dennis Taylor

Top 64
In: Jimmy Michie; Tony Chappel; Jamie Burnett
Out: Mick Price; Stefan Mazrocis; Wayne Jones

Top 128
In: Wayne Brown; Colin Morton
Out: Shaun Mellish; Bob Chaperon

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby LDS

The 94-95 season is like a whole new world. Steve and Jimmy are suddenly 'the old guys' and there's much fun to be had deciding who we're going to start favouring in events from now on, as if going to a sushi bar for the first time, watching all the newly ascending players pass before one.

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby Dan-cat

badtemperedcyril wrote:Funny how Ronnie went into this tournament being tipped as a possible winner (indeed he'd risen to 6th in your rankings), yet he ended up being pummeled by Parrott, 13-3.


Parrot, to his credit, doesn't bring this up too often.

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby badtemperedcyril

Dan-cat wrote:
badtemperedcyril wrote:Funny how Ronnie went into this tournament being tipped as a possible winner (indeed he'd risen to 6th in your rankings), yet he ended up being pummeled by Parrott, 13-3.


Parrot, to his credit, doesn't bring this up too often.

Parrott was my favorite player when I was a boy - started supporting him when he won the European Open at Deauville. I remember being totally gutted when nasty Davis demolished him in the World Championship final. I thought he was going to win. :crying:

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby chengdufan

1994 UK Championship - Guild Hall, Preston
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_UK_Championship

The '94 UK brought us somewhat back to business as usual, with no real surprises in the make up of the quarter-finalists. Stephen Hendry took the title, and was never in any real danger of losing to Ken Doherty in the final. Ken stayed close up to 6-5, but then Hendry won the next four to claim a 10-5 victory. The Bairn made a remarkable 7 (VIDIPRINTER: S-E-V-E-N) centuries in the final, including one in each of the first 6 frames he won. Amazing!

There were a few new players who did remarkably well to reach the last 32. Before researching this event, I had never heard of Mark Fenton, Richy McDonald or Nick Marsh before. So credit to them.
Fenton won 8 matches, including a 9-1 thrashing of Steve James. McDonald and Marsh didn't face a big name, but McDonald's victories over the declining Steve Newbury and Mick Price, and Marsh's over Tony Knowles were particularly surprising.

L16:
Ronnie O'Sullivan (6) 9-5 Terry Griffiths (16)
Ken Doherty (8) 9-4 Fergal O'Brien (22)
John Parrott (7) 9-8 Mark Williams (46)
James Wattana (4) 9-4 Joe Swail (15)
Peter Ebdon (10) 9-1 Jason Ferguson (42)
Dave Harold (11) 9-4 Alex Higgins (57)
Darren Morgan (9) 9-5 Mark King (29)
Stephen Hendry (1) 9-2 Willie Thorne (26)

QFs:
Doherty (8) 9-7 O'Sullivan (6)
Wattana (4) 9-5 Parrott (7)
Ebdon (10) 9-5 Harold (11)
Hendry (1) 9-3 Morgan (9)

SFs:
Doherty (8) 9-6 Wattana (4)
Hendry (1) 9-8 Ebdon (10)

Final:
Hendry (1) 10-5 Doherty (8)

Following the event...

Top 4
1. Stephen Hendry 25991
2. Steve Davis 19066
3. James Wattana 18801
4. Ronnie O'Sullivan 18144

Co92
12. John Higgins 9439
30. Mark Williams 4952

Top 16
In: Fergal O'Brien
Out: Terry Griffiths

Top 32
In: Jason Ferguson, Mark Williams, Dene O'Kane
Out: Steve James, Neal Foulds, Stephen Lee

Top 64
In: Mick Price; Wayne Jones
Out: Stephen O'Connor; Peter Francisco

Top 128
In: Nick Marsh; Mark Fenton; Richy McDonald; Craig MacGillivray
Out: Steve Campbell; Jim Chambers; Colin Morton; Robby Foldvari

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby csprince

chengdufan wrote:
csprince wrote:great work chengdufan i've enjoyed reading this thread.

Thanks CS! Good to see you back posting


thanks chengdufan.

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby chengdufan

Juddernaut88 wrote:Once this heads to 1997 onwards I'll feel so down as that was the slow fall of the great Stephen Hendry :(

There's a ways to go yet Judders! For now your man is still way clear of the pack :dance2:

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby chengdufan

1994 European Open - Het Rool Stadium (cuetracker) or Schijnpoort Arena (wiki) (same place?), Antwerp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Euro ... n_(snooker)

We had some wildcards playing at this event. Not the Belgians who had been trying to make it as pros the conventional way though, by heading to England for a summer of fun qualifiers. Here we had Nico Devlies and Yvan van Velthoven, along with a couple of players who would have been surefire Snooker Island favourites, Alain de cockerel (turn off your swear filters) and Curd Persyn.
You can just imagine the glee on the Island if Curd were to play Rob Milkins. And there would be such good intro possibilities:
We're not sure if it's he, she or it in the third person... it's Curd Persyn!!

Anyway, where was I? Van Velthoven actually won his wildcard game, against Matthew Couch, and then got a bye against Jimmy White, who withdrew (anyone know why?). So he made it to the last 16. Well played Yvan!

But it was a predictable winner. You guessed it, Stephen Hendry. He thrashed Parrott (thrashing the Parrott is not a euphemism) 9-3 in the final, after going 7-1 up. He made 3 centuries, 3 70+ers, 1 80+er and finished him off with a 92. Classy stuff from the Scot.

QFs:
Stephen Hendry (1) 5-2 Willie Thorne (26)
Ronnie O'Sullivan (4) 5-1 Dave Harold (11)
Nigel Bond (14) 5-3 Ken Doherty (7)
John Parrott (8) 5-2 Terry Griffiths (19)

SFs:
Hendry (1) 6-5 O'Sullivan (4)
Parrott (8) 6-4 Bond (14)

Final:
Hendry (1) 9-3 Parrott (8)

Following the event...
Top 4
1. Stephen Hendry 27267
2. Ronnie O'Sullivan 18343
3. Steve Davis 18268
4. James Wattana 18213

Incredibly close between 2nd and 4th...

Co92
12. John Higgins 9751
29. Mark Williams 4720

Top 16
In: Mark King
Out: Fergal O'Brien

Top 32
In: Neal Foulds
Out: Dene O'Kane

Top 64
In: Stephen O'Connor
Out: Tony Chappel

Top 128
In: Jim Chambers
Out: Eugene Hughes

Re: Rankings revisit - a trip through history

Postby badtemperedcyril

chengdufan wrote:Anyway, where was I? Van Velthoven actually won his wildcard game, against Matthew Couch, and then got a bye against Jimmy White, who withdrew (anyone know why?). So he made it to the last 16. Well played Yvan!

Suspect it was when he was undergoing cancer treatment. It was certainly late 94, early 95. He also had that implant hair thing done.