Your top ten matches of all time?

Cloud Strife wrote:Mine in no particular order.

O'Sullivan 17-16 Selby WC 2020
O'Sullivan 13-12 Higgins WC 1996
O'Sullivan 17-4 Hendry WC 2004
O'Sullivan 17-7 Hendry WC 2008
O'Sullivan 10-9 Trump Tour Championship 2019
Campbell 9-0 Hendry UK 1998
Ebdon 13-11 O'Sullivan WC 2005
O'Sullivan 5-4 Higginson German Masters 2012
O'Sullivan 9-1 Williams Scottish Open 2000
Hendry 17-13 O'Sullivan WC 1999

Do you have a Ronnie duvet cover?

There's a biased list towards your favourite player and then there's a list when you are impartial.

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:I know a competition is ongoing, but nobody’s going to agree with everything, so post your top ten here.

Mine are:
1. Dennis Taylor 18-17 Steve Davis
2. Ronnie O’Sullivan 17-16 Mark Selby
3. Alex Higgins 16-15 Jimmy White
4. Stephen Hendry 18-17 Jimmy White
5. Alex Higgins 16-15 Steve Davis
6. Ken Doherty 17-16 Paul Hunter
7. Mark Selby 17-15 Ding Junhui
8. Stephen Hendry 16-15 Steve Davis
9. John Higgins 10-9 Ronnie O’Sullivan
10. Peter Ebdon 18-17 Stephen Hendry

The match you chose as a winner has a lot of historical importance, but otherwise it was a garbage match

Johnny, allow me to explain why I always (grudgingly) place Taylor-Davis top of the pile.

I know that when it comes to judging the greatest players of all-time, you go for a far more emotional criteria than I do. I stick to how much guys won, and the stength of the opposition they played against. You tend to bump the likes of Alex Higgins and Jimmy White way further up your list than I do.

When it comes to judging matches, you and I tend to swap our criteria around. You seem to focus entirely on quality. I go by the emotions each match produced. A lot of the greatest matches of all-time, in my view, are great because of a frame or two, usually towards the end.

Yes, I do take quality into account. But it's far from my top criteria. It's why the likes of O'Sullivan's semi-final wins over Hendry don't even qualify for consideration. If I went with quality, then something like Hendry-O'Sullivan 1999, Selby-Ding 2017, or perhaps even the 2019 CoC final would win.

But why go down that route? Why would you judge a match solely on quality? No match had anything like the impact of the Taylor-Davis final, nothing produced drama like it, and it was unquestionably snooker's greatest night.

I'm as sick of hearing about it as everyone else is. For a while I'd have shoved it way down the list just because I was so tired of it. But taking a step back and weighing everything up, it is the greatest match ever. And to be honest, I don't think it will be dethroned in my lifetime, or anyone else's lifetime for that matter.

Andre147 wrote:There's a biased list towards your favourite player and then there's a list when you are impartial.

Mine is impartial.

To be honest, I saw the old top four of Taylor-Davis '85, Higgins-White '82, Hendry-White '94 and Higgins-Davis '83 as an untouchable top four. Then lo and behold, we got a match that overtook three of those matches.

Maybe Taylor-Davis is the only one that's actually untouchable.

Andre147 wrote:There's a biased list towards your favourite player and then there's a list when you are impartial.

Then post your impartial lists, for buck's sake. I've twice written out an entire top 125 that was impartial, surely you buckers can manage 10 matches.

Pink Ball wrote:

Andre147 wrote:There's a biased list towards your favourite player and then there's a list when you are impartial.

Then post your impartial lists, for buck's sake. I've twice written out an entire top 125 that was impartial, surely you buckers can manage 10 matches.

I actually did both in my Top 10.

Andre147 wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:

Andre147 wrote:There's a biased list towards your favourite player and then there's a list when you are impartial.

Then post your impartial lists, for buck's sake. I've twice written out an entire top 125 that was impartial, surely you buckers can manage 10 matches.

I actually did both in my Top 10.

That makes no sense. You said that yours was a personal top 10 and not the 10 best matches of all time.

What, leaving personal bias aside, is your top 10?

Holden Chinaski wrote:The 1997 Liverpool Victoria Charity Challenge final will definitely be in my top ten.

good pick and I'd also add the 2019 Champion of Champions.

1985 is the most iconic snooker match ever by a considerable distance. Other matches have iconic moments, memorable moments, historic moments. But none compares to the 1985 final in terms of the match itself.

Which, to be honest, is a bit of a shame considering the match is comfortably older than I am. You wonder how long it’ll take for something to surpass it. Or even if anything ever will. Perhaps not, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps in days gone by the Ronnie-Selby semi would have done so. But then, Higgins-White 1982 hasn’t, despite having the most famous break of all time. The 2002 final went to a deciding frame and similarly featured an underdog against the undisputed king of the sport. And yet it’s rarely even mentioned in the best matches of all time, despite having a similar story (minus the early comeback).

The 1985 final was something special. It’s received a backlash because of being mentioned ad nauseam. This is understandable. Anything being constantly lauded will receive a backlash.

But it is by some distance the high water mark of snooker as a sport, regardless of your personal preferences.

Anybody disparaging it would do well to realise they probably wouldn’t be fans of snooker right now, let alone talking about it regularly on an online forum, if it weren’t for the ‘85 final.

Dennis Taylor can buck the buck off. But the 1985 final deserves its place in history and then some.

Iranu wrote:1985 is the most iconic snooker match ever by a considerable distance. Other matches have iconic moments, memorable moments, historic moments. But none compares to the 1985 final in terms of the match itself.

Which, to be honest, is a bit of a shame considering the match is comfortably older than I am. You wonder how long it’ll take for something to surpass it. Or even if anything ever will. Perhaps not, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps in days gone by the Ronnie-Selby semi would have done so. But then, Higgins-White 1982 hasn’t, despite having the most famous break of all time. The 2002 final went to a deciding frame and similarly featured an underdog against the undisputed king of the sport. And yet it’s rarely even mentioned in the best matches of all time, despite having a similar story (minus the early comeback).

The 1985 final was something special. It’s received a backlash because of being mentioned ad nauseam. This is understandable. Anything being constantly lauded will receive a backlash.

But it is by some distance the high water mark of snooker as a sport, regardless of your personal preferences.

Anybody disparaging it would do well to realise they probably wouldn’t be fans of snooker right now, let alone talking about it regularly on an online forum, if it weren’t for the ‘85 final.

Dennis Taylor can buck the buck off. But the 1985 final deserves its place in history and then some.

Bang-on.

Iranu wrote:You wonder how long it’ll take for something to surpass it. Or even if anything ever will. Perhaps not, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps in days gone by the Ronnie-Selby semi would have done so.

It would help Ronnie-Selby if the match had been a final rather than a semi...

D4P wrote:

Iranu wrote:You wonder how long it’ll take for something to surpass it. Or even if anything ever will. Perhaps not, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps in days gone by the Ronnie-Selby semi would have done so.

It would help Ronnie-Selby if the match had been a final rather than a semi...

Good point, although it still wouldn't have overtaken Taylor-Davis. A World Championship final going to an hour-long decider that finished on the black is just too much to cope with.

D4P wrote:

Iranu wrote:You wonder how long it’ll take for something to surpass it. Or even if anything ever will. Perhaps not, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps in days gone by the Ronnie-Selby semi would have done so.

It would help Ronnie-Selby if the match had been a final rather than a semi...

It would have. But it still wouldn’t take top spot.

Pink Ball wrote:

D4P wrote:

Iranu wrote:You wonder how long it’ll take for something to surpass it. Or even if anything ever will. Perhaps not, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps in days gone by the Ronnie-Selby semi would have done so.

It would help Ronnie-Selby if the match had been a final rather than a semi...

Good point, although it still wouldn't have overtaken Taylor-Davis. A World Championship final going to an hour-long decider that finished on the black is just too much to cope with.

Exactly.

You could argue the Kyren-McGill semi would have had a better chance of surpassing the 1985 final because of its final frame drama, had it been a final, although obviously it lacked the story that Ronnie-Selby did.

But that’s the point. 1985 had the whole package from a historic point of view.

Iranu wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:

D4P wrote:

Iranu wrote:You wonder how long it’ll take for something to surpass it. Or even if anything ever will. Perhaps not, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps in days gone by the Ronnie-Selby semi would have done so.

It would help Ronnie-Selby if the match had been a final rather than a semi...

Good point, although it still wouldn't have overtaken Taylor-Davis. A World Championship final going to an hour-long decider that finished on the black is just too much to cope with.

Exactly.

You could argue the Kyren-McGill semi would have had a better chance of surpassing the 1985 final because of its final frame drama, had it been a final, although obviously it lacked the story that Ronnie-Selby did.

But that’s the point. 1985 had the whole package from a historic point of view.

This forum would have nowhere near as many regulars without the 1985 final. That, alone, would be enough to make it the greatest match of all time in my view.

Can't disagree with what Iranu said. If you put everything into consideration, the 1985 WC Final is the greatest match of all time. I doubt something will ever surpass that, mainly because we live in a digital era now, and back in those days there were very few terrestrial channels in the UK, and this makes a big difference.

But it's been a long time since we had a decider in a World Final, I'd love to see another decided in the colours, not even mentioning the final black but colours at least.

Iranu wrote:You could argue the Kyren-McGill semi would have had a better chance of surpassing the 1985 final because of its final frame drama, had it been a final, although obviously it lacked the story that Ronnie-Selby did.

But that’s the point. 1985 had the whole package from a historic point of view.

Not disagreeing, but will point out that one advantage Ronnie-Selby had over Taylor-Davis was the rivalry, and the revenge (for Ronnie) angle.

Agreed, 85 final was something special, I was only 12 but remember staying up late and watching it. Some people forget how big snooker was back then in the UK, we'll never see viewing figures like that again and such a dramatic final frame. Me and my brothers even got a snooker table that Christmas (8ft I think definitely not a full size!) and so did some of our friends. Just ahead of the 2019 CoC final in second for me :) My next 8 to follow...

D4P wrote:

Iranu wrote:You could argue the Kyren-McGill semi would have had a better chance of surpassing the 1985 final because of its final frame drama, had it been a final, although obviously it lacked the story that Ronnie-Selby did.

But that’s the point. 1985 had the whole package from a historic point of view.

Not disagreeing, but will point out that one advantage Ronnie-Selby had over Taylor-Davis was the rivalry, and the revenge (for Ronnie) angle.

True.

But that advantage only counts for fans of those players. Snooker just doesn’t permeate the culture like it did in 1985.

In 1985 it was either Davis or ANYONE ELSE.

The only matches that come close to those stakes are 1994 and 2002. 1994 sadly had the ‘wrong’ result and 2002 didn’t have the hour-long decider than 1985 had.

D4P wrote:

Iranu wrote:You wonder how long it’ll take for something to surpass it. Or even if anything ever will. Perhaps not, for obvious reasons.

Perhaps in days gone by the Ronnie-Selby semi would have done so.

It would help Ronnie-Selby if the match had been a final rather than a semi...

Quite a lot of great semi's that wish could have been the final, this is definitely one of the top ones.

Partisanship is so hard to avoid for the avid follower of any sport, be it team or individual. As a Welshman my favourite rugby matches tend to be famous Welsh wins. Snooker is slightly different as an individual sport but often I have strong loyalties, starting with Welsh players. The first championship I recall watching was 1978, Reardon's last title and of course there was the Griffiths first time win in 1979. Add to that Wales winning the team classics of 1979 and 1980 the it was a great introduction for me!

So, in the early days obviously my favourite players tended to be Reardon, Griffiths and Mountjoy. I had non-Welsh players I liked: Higgins, Thorburn, Dennis Taylor, Kirk Stevens and eventually Jimmy White. I think people will agree, quite a range of players there! As time has gone on obviously I supported Williams and Matthew Stevens but have also liked Selby, Judd and Roberston (his veganism notwithstanding). I have found it hard to like Murphy (warmed to him since he ceased to be a God-Botherer) have never really liked Higgins and ( i know this is heresy for some) have never warmed to O'Sullivan despite fully recognising his genius.

So, for me, any list will be necessarily biased based on what I have written above but I have full respect for those who are able to be objective! Many are reluctant to concede that they have unconscious bias, in sport as it other walks of life.

So, on this criteria here is my chronological list.


Griffiths - Charlton (1979 WC)

Higgins - White (1982 WC)

Higgins - Davis (1983 UK)

Taylor - Davis (1985 WC)

Mountjoy - Hendry (1988 UK)

Williams - Hendry (1998 Masters)

Williams - Higgins (2000 WC)

Williams - Stevens (2000 WC)

Williams - Higgins (2018 WC)

Trump - Higgins (2019 WC)


I stress: these are not what I consider to be per se the best matches, but rather those I have best memories of, based on who won (or who lost!) I like to think I am being honest at least.

I may attempt a more objective one!

Here are some honourable mentions:-


Reardon - White (1983 Yamaha)

White - Stevens (1984 Masters)

Johnson - Davis (1986 WC)

Doherty - Hendry (1997 WC)

Williams -Doherty (2003 WC)

Selby - O'Sullivan (2014 WC)


Of course many in both lists could be considered great matches in their own right.

White clinched it with 113 the frame after the 147 so it was an amazing end

Agree all round that the WC match was better but my criteria was really matches that stick in the memory: was a Stevens fan then and becoming a White one.

Muller wrote:Partisanship is so hard to avoid for the avid follower of any sport, be it team or individual. As a Welshman my favourite rugby matches tend to be famous Welsh wins. Snooker is slightly different as an individual sport but often I have strong loyalties, starting with Welsh players. The first championship I recall watching was 1978, Reardon's last title and of course there was the Griffiths first time win in 1979. Add to that Wales winning the team classics of 1979 and 1980 the it was a great introduction for me!

So, in the early days obviously my favourite players tended to be Reardon, Griffiths and Mountjoy. I had non-Welsh players I liked: Higgins, Thorburn, Dennis Taylor, Kirk Stevens and eventually Jimmy White. I think people will agree, quite a range of players there! As time has gone on obviously I supported Williams and Matthew Stevens but have also liked Selby, Judd and Roberston (his veganism notwithstanding). I have found it hard to like Murphy (warmed to him since he ceased to be a God-Botherer) have never really liked Higgins and ( i know this is heresy for some) have never warmed to O'Sullivan despite fully recognising his genius.

So, for me, any list will be necessarily biased based on what I have written above but I have full respect for those who are able to be objective! Many are reluctant to concede that they have unconscious bias, in sport as it other walks of life.

So, on this criteria here is my chronological list.


Griffiths - Charlton (1979 WC)

Higgins - White (1982 WC)

Higgins - Davis (1983 UK)

Taylor - Davis (1985 WC)

Mountjoy - Hendry (1988 UK)

Williams - Hendry (1998 Masters)

Williams - Higgins (2000 WC)

Williams - Stevens (2000 WC)

Williams - Higgins (2018 WC)

Trump - Higgins (2019 WC)


I stress: these are not what I consider to be per se the best matches, but rather those I have best memories of, based on who won (or who lost!) I like to think I am being honest at least.

I may attempt a more objective one!

Nice to see the Griffiths v Charlton match get a mention. It was truly an epic when you take everything into consideration. Sometimes, players who aren't flamboyant get forgotten but Charlton deserves credit as an absolute warrior of the game. 1979 must have seemed like it would finally be his year once Reardon, Spencer and Higgins were out of the way. Standing between him and the title were two qualifiers, one a rookie (Virgo and Griffiths), and Dennis Taylor, to whom he'd never lost. At the age of 49 and appearing in his seventh World Championship semi-final in nine attempts, perhaps he had too much experience? It was an absolute monster of a match... Griffiths leading 10-4, only for Charlton to grind him down with his slow tempo and zero mistakes, recovered to trail only 11-10 overnight. Charlton led for the first time 16-15 and again at 17-16 before what would be one of the most remarkable frames in Championship history. It went something like this: Charlton missed an easy red to the middle with game on; Griffiths missed the red from distance but double kissed and fluked a snooker; Charlton fouled; Griffiths potted red/black then missed an easy last red; Charlton attempted a tricky red at full stretch but missed it by a mile and fluked a snooker; Griffiths escaped from the snooker and fluked the red!; Griffiths pots green, yellow, green; Griffiths fluked the brown with an amazing baulk cushion to middle pocket double!; Griffiths twice attempts the blue at distance but went safe; Charlton under hits his safety; Griffiths sinks blue and pink for 17-17. Griffiths won the next to lead 18-17 and from 0-48 took the match with a 97 clearance at something like 1.40am!

My list is going to be matches that I have actually watched live on television or attended. I'm not going to include matches that were before I was born or matches I never watched live. I only ever vividly remember watching the 1994 world final but I was only 5 so I'm not going to include that on my list.

1. Paul Hunter 10-9 Ronnie O'Sullivan 2004 Masters final
2. Stephen Hendry 17-13 Ronnie O'Sullivan 2002 World championship semi final.
3. Ken Doherty 17-16 Paul Hunter 2003 world championship semi final
4. John Higgins 10-9 Mark Williams UK Championship final 2010
5. John Higgins 10-9 Ronnie O'Sullivan 2006 Masters final
6. Judd Trump 17-15 Ding Junhui 2011 world championship semi final
7. Mark Williams 18-16 John Higgins 2018 world championship final
8. Ronnie O'Sullivan 17-16 Mark Selby 2020 world championship
9. Ronnie O'Sullivan 10-9 Kyren Wilson 2018 Champions of champions final
10. Neil Robertson 10-9 Judd Trump 2019 Champions of champions final