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Which one ?

1985 World Championship final
9
56%
1998 Masters final
7
44%
 
Total votes : 16

Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby FoulNMiss

Hello everyone !

Obviously there is nothing else than a victory at the Crucible. But don't you think that the 98 final actually contains even more drama ?

Firstly, IMO a respotted black looks even more terrific than a "simple" final black (which kills me to call it that way lmao), as Williams had to clear from the brown first to snatch the tie and this ultimate black ball, right after that insane fluke on the yellow by Hendry.

The issue of both of them looks very close : An undefeatable champion losing to an underdog on the last black of a decider after leading the whole match and missing a match ball on his last shot, a horribly painful defeat for both Davis and Hendry, even decades later.

The difference is once again, the fact that Davis still won plenty of majors after this hard hit (he hadn't reach yet half of them), and some could argue this defeat helped him to be even more successful in the rest of his career. Whereas in the case of Hendry, it came at a moment where his decade of total domination was already behind him, that was one of his last chances to win something massive and he left this huge opportunity, even if he won the WSC in 99 later. Really, I find this respotted black highly symbolic as both the end of an era (Hendry winning almost everything), and the beginning of a new era with Willo winning his first TC event, quickly followed by the first one won by J. Higgins few months later at Sheffield. I see it at the ultimate moment in the history of snooker where the class of 92 definitely took the succession of Hendo.

For all of those reasons, even if the final between Taylor and Davis stays more strongly in all the minds, I would rate the drama of 98 even higher, considering the whole history of snooker. I am curious to have your view about it ?

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby Holden Chinaski

The correct answer would probably be '85 but I voted for the '98 Masters final. Incredible drama. I often watch that last frame again on youtube. You can really see the pressure getting to Hendry, which is crazy because he had so much bottle. Still can't believe Hendry missed that black to the middle pocket.

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby SnookerFan

The 1985 final seems more played out somehow. They haven't stopped mentioning it since.

Sure, 1998 comes round every so often in those classic match features they put on the BBC sometimes. But it seems they can't go five minutes without mentioning 1985. It's made a lot of snooker fans apathetic about it nowadays. I get that it was an iconic moment in snooker history, but the way some go on about it, you'd think it was the only snooker match that's ever happened.

Also, a new fan watching a replay of 1985 now might be surprised to find the famous final frame of 1985 took 70-dd minutes. Not saying like it's a bad thing. But 1998 was been between two attacking players, so probably stands up more towards newer fans. And they're probably less likely to know what happens in 1998 too, as it's less talked about.

Sod it, I'm voting 1998. If the question was which match was more iconic, I'd have said 1985.

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby TheRocket

SnookerEd25 wrote:Difference being, of course, '85 was at the home of snooker, for the sport's ultimate prize.

1998 was just some pumped-up invitational event...


Thats a little bit harsh imo. Some people consider the Masters as the 2nd biggest tournament even though I personally dont agree but its definitely not some tin pot event.

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby SnookerEd25

TheRocket wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:Difference being, of course, '85 was at the home of snooker, for the sport's ultimate prize.

1998 was just some pumped-up invitational event...


Thats a little bit harsh imo. Some people consider the Masters as the 2nd biggest tournament even though I personally dont agree but its definitely not some tin pot event.


I know. Just being facetious! I like the Masters, I just don't like the BBC and their sycophantic coverage. :td:

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby SnookerFan

I was only 4 when the 1985 final happened, and was probably in bed when it happened.

Had I watched it live, I'd probably have remembered it as massively dramatic.

I think people just get disillusioned with all the 1985 chat that's happened ever since. It was 35 years ago.

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby SnookerEd25

SnookerFan wrote:I was only 4 when the 1985 final happened, and was probably in bed when it happened.

Had I watched it live, I'd probably have remembered it as massively dramatic.

I think people just get disillusioned with all the 1985 chat that's happened ever since. It was 35 years ago.


Way to make me feel old, SF :mood:

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby SnookerFan

SnookerEd25 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I was only 4 when the 1985 final happened, and was probably in bed when it happened.

Had I watched it live, I'd probably have remembered it as massively dramatic.

I think people just get disillusioned with all the 1985 chat that's happened ever since. It was 35 years ago.


Way to make me feel old, SF :mood:


Sorry. :emb:

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby mick745

I was 10 when the 1985 final was on. Commentators were 'long in the tooth' then as well but at least they didnt 'bang on' about events 35 years previous, "i remember a great frame ted between Fred Davis and walter donaldson in 1952, will that drama every be surpassed'....etc.

Lots of snooker fans were not even born in 1985. They must know about the match and how it ended but it is not the same as having experienced it at the time.

Nor is it some sort of golden age. If Davis had potted the black it would just have been seen as another routine Davis win, too close for comfort but normal service. Many of the frames had long drawn out safety battles, not a single century was scored in the whole final. We only really remember the climax not the 12/13 hours previous.

You would think that snooker had gone backwards in its standard since then according to the bbc anyway. Golden age? No.

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby SnookerFan

mick745 wrote:I was 10 when the 1985 final was on. Commentators were 'long in the tooth' then as well but at least they didnt 'bang on' about events 35 years previous, "i remember a great frame ted between Fred Davis and walter donaldson in 1952, will that drama every be surpassed'....etc.

Lots of snooker fans were not even born in 1985. They must know about the match and how it ended but it is not the same as having experienced it at the time.

Nor is it some sort of golden age. If Davis had potted the black it would just have been seen as another routine Davis win, too close for comfort but normal service. Many of the frames had long drawn out safety battles, not a single century was scored in the whole final. We only really remember the climax not the 12/13 hours previous.

You would think that snooker had gone backwards in its standard since then according to the bbc anyway. Golden age? No.



It was a golden age in the terms of popularity, at least in the UK.

The game is a lot more globally popular nowadays, but a lot of people here wouldn't know that unless they were specifically interested in snooker.

The amount of times on hearing that I like snooker, people say; "Oh, I loved that in the 1980s. Not watched it in years." Also, I get questions like; "Is Dennis Taylor still playing?" Then I have to wonder if I can be bothered to explain what the Seniors Tour is to them. <laugh>

In terms of standard, I'm not sure it was a golden age. Certainly the type of game they play now has changed. Steve Davis only had something like 300 centuries in his career, and he was considered the dominant force for a decade. That's just now how the played in those days. I know the cliche is that the game is called snooker, not potting balls. But in the 1980s, that most people played.

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby mick745

Attacking players were rarer then but were still the most popular, Jimmy White, Alex Higgins and Kirk Stevens.

But the slower players had plenty of fans as well. My nan always though Davis was a nice young man but Thorburn and Taylor and others were popular too. Every player had a trait by which he was known by.

Nowadays casual fans see the same old faces year in year out but struggle to distinguish between their playing styles and personalities. Ronnie is really the only player with a large fan base, although Judd is maybe getting there. None of the other players appeal to non-snooker fans. They also hear that china are taking over the sport but never see chinese players lifting trophies.

This is certainly one way the sport has declined, casual interest.

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby Iranu

Some things mentioned less often on TV than the 1985 final:

- World Wars 1 and 2 (PM Ace for details)
- England’s 1966 World Cup victory
- 9/11
- The Cold War
- Jesus
- The invention of electricity
- Universal suffrage
- Man lands ON THE bucking MOON

How I wish that final had never happened.

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby SnookerFan

Iranu wrote:Some things mentioned less often on TV than the 1985 final:

- World Wars 1 and 2 (PM Ace for details)
- England’s 1966 World Cup victory
- 9/11
- The Cold War
- Jesus
- The invention of electricity
- Universal suffrage
- Man lands ON THE bucking MOON

How I wish that final had never happened.


rofl rofl rofl

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

mick745 wrote:Attacking players were rarer then but were still the most popular, Jimmy White, Alex Higgins and Kirk Stevens.

But the slower players had plenty of fans as well. My nan always though Davis was a nice young man but Thorburn and Taylor and others were popular too. Every player had a trait by which he was known by.

Nowadays casual fans see the same old faces year in year out but struggle to distinguish between their playing styles and personalities. Ronnie is really the only player with a large fan base, although Judd is maybe getting there. None of the other players appeal to non-snooker fans. They also hear that china are taking over the sport but never see chinese players lifting trophies.

This is certainly one way the sport has declined, casual interest.


There was a good mix of ages on the tour at the time from teenagers to people as old as 70 qualifying for the Crucible, as opposed to today where there's an overload of people between 30-45.. Plus many of the players had relied on exhibitions to make a living early in their career and has developed a whole persona to go with it. A lot of them were like Light Entertainment personalities while there were a few rock star players to give the game a bit of a edge.

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby badtemperedcyril

mick745 wrote:I was 10 when the 1985 final was on. Commentators were 'long in the tooth' then as well but at least they didnt 'bang on' about events 35 years previous, "i remember a great frame ted between Fred Davis and walter donaldson in 1952, will that drama every be surpassed'....etc.

I'd rather talk about Fred Davis v Walter Donaldson. I'm bored shitless with 1985 now!!!

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby Dragonfly

I voted 1985. If I was to watch both matches now I would probably think the Masters final was a better quality match.

But I am someone who is old enough to actually remember the 85 final. It's important to take into account the circumstances at the time. Snooker was hugely popular. And Davis ruled like a giant over the sport. He was by far the best and most successful player. He was also hugely famous. And didn't lose big matches very often.

At the time it was assumed he would destroy Taylor. And the early exchanges seemed to justify this. But as Taylor clawed his way back millions of viewers were enthralled. Sure the quality of play may not have been to the level we are used to now, but it was hugely dramatic.

The final frame and how it played out was one of the most dramatic sporting events of the era. Not just snooker but all sports. Again perhaps the quality wasn't great but it was truly iconic.

The Masters final of course was exciting. But no way did it grip an entire nation. It was thrilling for snooker fans. I don't think the public as a whole were really that bothered.

I'm basing my opinion really on the fact that the 85 final was such an extraordinary event of that era. Very few people had been gripped like that by a snooker match and never have been again

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby Ck147

Dragonfly wrote:I voted 1985. If I was to watch both matches now I would probably think the Masters final was a better quality match.

But I am someone who is old enough to actually remember the 85 final. It's important to take into account the circumstances at the time. Snooker was hugely popular. And Davis ruled like a giant over the sport. He was by far the best and most successful player. He was also hugely famous. And didn't lose big matches very often.

At the time it was assumed he would destroy Taylor. And the early exchanges seemed to justify this. But as Taylor clawed his way back millions of viewers were enthralled. Sure the quality of play may not have been to the level we are used to now, but it was hugely dramatic.

The final frame and how it played out was one of the most dramatic sporting events of the era. Not just snooker but all sports. Again perhaps the quality wasn't great but it was truly iconic.

The Masters final of course was exciting. But no way did it grip an entire nation. It was thrilling for snooker fans. I don't think the public as a whole were really that bothered.

I'm basing my opinion really on the fact that the 85 final was such an extraordinary event of that era. Very few people had been gripped like that by a snooker match and never have been again

:goodpost:

Re: Which decider would you rate as the most dramatic ?

Postby badtemperedcyril

1985, simply because of the enormity of what Taylor achieved and how he achieved it. Significantly, this was the World Championship and the culmination of 2 long days play. The Masters, whilst high in prestige, cannot possibly compare. Also, the game was bigger then - the thought of getting 18.5 Million viewers for a snooker match in the UK now is beyond comprehension.

Although I'm sick to death of the match it has to be 1985 for me.