Post a reply

Re: O'Sullivan's last three frames versus Selby: in numbers

Postby SnookerFan » 07 Sep 2020 Read

Iranu wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Iranu wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I was being facetious with the; "Ronnie stands in the corner and punches himself" comment, by the way. I meant that more as a joke than anything.

Yeah that’s more Drago’s schtick.

Image


Actually, it's Tyson Fury's.

I don’t understand the difference. To me they’re exactly the same.


I'm just being silly.

Re: O'Sullivan's last three frames versus Selby: in numbers

Postby Holden Chinaski » 07 Sep 2020 Read

Andy Sparky wrote:The tone and attitude of O’Sullivan was really set before those last three frames. Watching the last FIVE frames of that match was like watching genius raging against the dying of the light.

It's definitely one of the best things I've ever seen in snooker. Magical stuff. It really shows how much stronger Ronnie has become in the psychological department.

Re: O'Sullivan's last three frames versus Selby: in numbers

Postby Pink Ball » 07 Sep 2020 Read

TheRocket wrote:I watched the fourth session of the Ding Selby 2017 semifinal. Ding had a golden opportunity in each frame , in fact more than one in each frame which he didnt take. Here are a few. Its there for anyone to see. Selby also made a lot of mistakes. I think we overrate this match a little bit. Ding had a great opportunity to win the world title that year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pLYDi2LofI&t=8m38s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pLYDi2LofI&t=15m55s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pLYDi2LofI&t=25m30s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pLYDi2LofI&t=1h19m13s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pLYDi2LofI&t=1h53m35s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pLYDi2LofI&t=1h57m45s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pLYDi2LofI&t=3h11m32s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pLYDi2LofI&t=3h23m25s

Right, so you're basing your opinion on this match on a session that wasn't the best session? The third session of that match was ridiculous. If you read back on the reaction on here at that time, you'll see that: viewtopic.php?f=633&t=7219&start=1170

The fourth session was very, very good, but the third session was off the scales.

If you think that it's not fair to push a match based on a session or less, not true. O'Sullivan-Selby is, in my opinion, a greater match and the second-greatest match of all-time. Until O'Sullivan went on a freakshow in the last three frames, it was nowhere near that. Probably not top 125. So what? Matches are about these moments.

Would the 1982 semi-final have been the third-greatest match ever without that 69 break? Would it buck.

Do you think the 1985 final wasn't boring as hell for the first third? It was, believe me, at 1-9. It became the greatest match of them all.

Stephen Hendry-Ronnie O'Sullivan 1999 actually had a pretty dull finish. But what went before it surpassed all else. It's remembered for its blinding standard, and rightly so.

Re: O'Sullivan's last three frames versus Selby: in numbers

Postby TheRocket » 07 Sep 2020 Read

I definitely agree when you say its about moments and there are barely any 4 session matches which have ultra high quality from start to finish anyway. Thats a very rare feat. I'm well aware of that.

But I rather question the general consensus which revolves around this match. And the general consensus has been that Ding played unbelievably well and as great as he can but was very unlucky because Selby played at his peak. I also believed in that for a long time.

Based from what I've seen and based on the stats there was one fantastic session which was the third.
But I also think Alex0paul was right when he said that Ding made quite a few mistakes whenever he was about to take control of the match or get on top of Selby. It was still a very good match but puts things more into perspective.

Re: O'Sullivan's last three frames versus Selby: in numbers

Postby Pink Ball » 07 Sep 2020 Read

I watched that match twice and I didn't get that impression at all. Ding was fighting back like a train at the end. It was a blue that was far more difficult than it looked that derailed him. I've seen a few Ding chokes, that wasn't one of them.

I'm convinced had that third session carried on he'd have nailed Selby. Ifs and buts.

I think this discussion has come about because we were arguing that Selby was as good in this match against O'Sullivan as he was in the 2017 semi. That's nonsense. Selby was good but not amazing. O'Sullivan was far from his best but Selby kept him in it. It was actually a pretty disappointing match for long stretches.

Re: O'Sullivan's last three frames versus Selby: in numbers

Postby TheRocket » 07 Sep 2020 Read

I agree about the O'Sullivan-Selby match. It was an ok or average quality match for most parts, nothing special. The final session was entertaining.

I was very surprised to see those numbers in the end though. Didnt expect Selbys pot success and long pot success to be that high.

Based on the match stats I said he must have played about the same level as he did against Ding in 2017. Which definitely was a hasty conclusion. To give a fair assessment I'd have to watch Ding-Selby from start to finish.

But no doubt that Ding definitely could have won that match. Selby wasnt invincible.

Re: O'Sullivan's last three frames versus Selby: in numbers

Postby Georgi1914 » 08 Sep 2020 Read

Andy Sparky wrote:The tone and attitude of O’Sullivan was really set before those last three frames. Watching the last FIVE frames of that match was like watching genius raging against the dying of the light.


I completely agree with you. Ronnie's vibes during the whole tournament felt like he was focused and very well prepared to get the job done this time. Yes, he had his lows and moments of bad luck against Ding and Williams, as well, but in the decisive moments he was simply flawless. I honestly thought before the semifinal that the match could turn into a massacre. Little did I know, the massacre was saved just for the last 3 frames and I am so fine with it now. :) The genius was on a mission and delivered a performance for the ages!

Re: O'Sullivan's last three frames versus Selby: in numbers

Postby Georgi1914 » 18 Sep 2020 Read

TheSaviour wrote:That´s just abysmal from Ronnie, Selby is ripping him in parts. Ronnie would stand a prospects if he only would refuse all those dumb long efforts. He stands no chances to manage to pot those, given the long format, the best possible opponent and the tight pockets. He leaks easy settings to Selby, and Selby now is the best I have ever seen him ever been. The match virtually is already over. It would take a miracle to Ronnie to manage to have his mind-setting correct. Now it has been anything but that. Anyone with a half-brain already saw during the first sessions, even when Ronnie lead 4-1 what would happen. It was Selby all the time with his absolute best! I have never seen anything as good that, from anyone. He is sharp as hell, makes no easy position-mistake at all, plays solid safety, has his mind-set spot on, meaning fancing to play the safety-battles all days long.

Ronnie versus Selby, the race to 17, is a complete no-show. Selby all the way, he´s ripping Ronnie in parts even while he trailed 1-4! Just could see how good Selby was even then and has been from a short while now, and Ronnie didn´t realise the situation at all and just kept on making those dumb long-efforts. A way, way too difficult attempts he had, and obviously he messed them all completely.

Selby could split the pack from the blue better. Now he has some slightly akwards runs of the balls. That´s the only thing I can think he could do better from now on. Then and only then it would be a match on.

I have lost all the words with the current Mark Selby!

Ronnie´s ability means absolutely nothing with these and this kind of a race to 17s. He played the first two sessions like a maniac or a 7 year old, tactical-wise. His tactics should be just to refuse many of those potting attempts and just to wait for a better setting of the balls and to clear up, and meanwhile just to tik-tok with Selby.

Anyone can talk what they ever wan´t to talk if you ask from me. They can watch the shows what they ever fancy to watch. They can follow the sports they ever fancy to watch.. They can go to where ever they just ever fancy to go. That´s not the case with everyone.

Who on earth has Ronnie now listened while FANCING to play like that?? (Probably a hell of a lot of people..) Still waiting and fancing for the miracle, and hoping his mind-set would be back to normal.


I remember this post written during the epic semi-final. I am by no means trying to pick on the poster that wrote this. But reading such a strong opinion of the 2 players now gives me a new wave of happiness for what O'Sullivan achieved. Ronnie did take some souls that night!
Post a reply