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Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big?

Postby Acé

They got bags of talent but why do they struggle to win big tournaments or make big runs across the world championships?

you would think with the amount of tournaments these days they'd be winning so much

back in the days we had players like Jimmy/Ronnie/Judd who weren't lviing up to their potential but they would still win other big tournaments and make deep runs but players with talent these days don't make the cut ANYWHERE let alone the WC

why?

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby HustleKing

Well Brecel is not based in the UK and as far as I know, does not make much effort to spar with fellow pros so a lack of quality match practice is his biggest issue.

I'm not sure how high Lisowski's true potential is, maybe he'll just be a Maguire who seemingly had a lot of potential at first, but only ends up getting a handful of rankers and occasionally getting to big event semis or finals

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby Iranu

HustleKing wrote:Well Brecel is not based in the UK and as far as I know, does not make much effort to spar with fellow pros so a lack of quality match practice is his biggest issue.

I'm not sure how high Lisowski's true potential is, maybe he'll just be a Maguire who seemingly had a lot of potential at first, but only ends up getting a handful of rankers and occasionally getting to big event semis or finals

Lisowski will be very lucky to match Maguire’s success the way he’s going. At the moment he’s looking more like the new Drago than anything else.

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby cupotee

I don’t really see why they’ve got bags of talent they’re just rich kids ( i think brecel is anyway ) or face fit types , why else would lisowski be a grove player for ten years , i think they’ll both wind up journeymen like mark davis and tom ford .

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby chengdufan

They look talented because they play quickly and can smash in some cracking long pots. They both have fundamental flaws in their games though, which need tackling before they can become top 8 players.

Brecel has a really awful safety game, meaning his opponents get a lot of starters. He's the only 'top' pro I've seen who is frequently unable to leave the cueball in baulk when playing safe.

Lisowski misses easy pots too frequently when he's in. Perhaps he should slow down just a teency bit.

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby SnookerEd25

I enjoy watching Lisowski when he is on song but he is, for me, the modern day Drago; capable of potting anybody off the table when he is flying, and struggling to make any headway when he is not. His tactical game is non-existent; if the potting is not there, he has no plan B. Drago never captured a significant title because he couldn’t sustain form for long enough. With the opportunities available these days it is hard to believe Jack won’t win a ranker; he might even be able to win something like the Masters but the really big prizes will elude him ultimately.

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby Holden Chinaski

HustleKing wrote:Well Brecel is not based in the UK and as far as I know, does not make much effort to spar with fellow pros so a lack of quality match practice is his biggest issue.

This is indeed the problem with Brecel. He desperately needs to move to the UK, for at least a big part of the year, so he can practice with top players. He's a fool to think he can be a top player without doing this. His problem is match play. He loses matches because he makes the wrong decisions.

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby Holden Chinaski

Holden Chinaski wrote:
HustleKing wrote:Well Brecel is not based in the UK and as far as I know, does not make much effort to spar with fellow pros so a lack of quality match practice is his biggest issue.

This is indeed the problem with Brecel. He desperately needs to move to the UK, for at least a big part of the year, so he can practice with top players. He's a fool to think he can be a top player without doing this. His problem is match play. He loses matches because he makes the wrong decisions.

Even Judd Trump has said he became a much better player after he had this tour with Ronnie where they played a lot of exhibition matches together. Judd said he thought it was crazy Ronnie would do this because it made Judd so much better.

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby TheRocket

Lisowski lacks the Allround game + misses far too many sitters. He might be a little bit comparable to the Ronnie of the early to mid 90's. Obviously not as successful but great to watch and very erratic at the same time.

When it comes to Brecel Hustleking and Holden are probably right. If he still lives in Belgium he doesnt have the opportunity to practice with other toppros and improve his matchplay or Allround game.

Similar to Maflin who lives in Norway.

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby Wildey

chengdufan wrote:They look talented because they play quickly and can smash in some cracking long pots. They both have fundamental flaws in their games though, which need tackling before they can become top 8 players.

Brecel has a really awful safety game, meaning his opponents get a lot of starters. He's the only 'top' pro I've seen who is frequently unable to leave the cueball in baulk when playing safe.

Lisowski misses easy pots too frequently when he's in. Perhaps he should slow down just a teency bit.

Great post.


Ive never understood why playing fast = talented


Players have got to learn their natural pace some plays fast because they like Ronnie or Jimmy the reason the likes of Ronnie or Jimmy plays fast was because they didn't really copy anyone it just happened same With Alex Higgins.

Ronnie plays at his pace nobody else pace.


Today with Wall-to-Wall snooker and Youtube players try to clone the most successful players and the most successful players for this generation is faster than the past.

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby Andre147

Above all players need to feel confortable, playing at their own pace.

Ebdon was one of the most talented players I've seen, with creative shots that most players wouldn't dream of playing. Sure he could be slow at times, and at times perhaps too slow, but he was very talented.

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby TheSaviour

The answer is quite simple; lot´s of similar players, no-one can really dominate.

Ben Woollaston, Jak Jones, Judd Trump, Mark Selby, Ronnie O´Sullivan, Neil Robertson and Kyren Wilson are quite same as they. There probably should be something truly unique in them, likes some or many to be honest, hazard types of positional shots that one could really dominate. Or that they would have genuine crowds-backing in order to make them highly spirited snooker players.

Judd has now dominated a bit. That´s down to those slightly akwards "small" cannons he tends to play. That´s just that; a slightly hazard-types of cue ball controls. The obvious difficulty is just to make them right more often than not.

The safeties, counter-snookers, a willingness to struggle a bit during those safety-battles could be a yet another factor which would help a one to win big. That´s probably even more difficult than those hazard cue balls controls or genuine crowds-backing as particularly Mark Selby has mastered the laying the properly timed snookers and laying the counter-snookers.

Anthony Hamilton, Anthony McGill, Ding Junhui and Ursenbacher are slightly different quite of an animals. They could be on to something in terms of winning quite big, but it could take a few more years in order that to happen.

Just my opinions those, obviously. Not that much statistics or any further analyses of the results tells now.

Some true analyses, yes, but not any further analyses.

That Norwegian lad could well be a next "some" thing, as he has his, er, strenghts, er. Er. Martin Gould and Pengfei are quite off now. John Higgins, Joe Perry and his "own Jones" and Mark J Williams playing their own stuffs also. Which, sadly, won´t be enough to win big. Joe Perry, perhaps, why not.

Re: Why do guys like Lisowski and Brecel struggle to win big

Postby The_Abbott

TheSaviour wrote:The answer is quite simple; lot´s of similar players, no-one can really dominate.

Ben Woollaston, Jak Jones, Judd Trump, Mark Selby, Ronnie O´Sullivan, Neil Robertson and Kyren Wilson are quite same as they. There probably should be something truly unique in them, likes some or many to be honest, hazard types of positional shots that one could really dominate. Or that they would have genuine crowds-backing in order to make them highly spirited snooker players.

Judd has now dominated a bit. That´s down to those slightly akwards "small" cannons he tends to play. That´s just that; a slightly hazard-types of cue ball controls. The obvious difficulty is just to make them right more often than not.

The safeties, counter-snookers, a willingness to struggle a bit during those safety-battles could be a yet another factor which would help a one to win big. That´s probably even more difficult than those hazard cue balls controls or genuine crowds-backing as particularly Mark Selby has mastered the laying the properly timed snookers and laying the counter-snookers.

Anthony Hamilton, Anthony McGill, Ding Junhui and Ursenbacher are slightly different quite of an animals. They could be on to something in terms of winning quite big, but it could take a few more years in order that to happen.

Just my opinions those, obviously. Not that much statistics or any further analyses of the results tells now.

Some true analyses, yes, but not any further analyses.

That Norwegian lad could well be a next "some" thing, as he has his, er, strenghts, er. Er. Martin Gould and Pengfei are quite off now. John Higgins, Joe Perry and his "own Jones" and Mark J Williams playing their own stuffs also. Which, sadly, won´t be enough to win big. Joe Perry, perhaps, why not.


Joe Perry has a good chance but not without his own Jones.