Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

wild. You're coming across if the JH is guilty already? Your saying he's guilty & he himself is saying he's 100% innocent. Hold fire on the boy to the full facts come out.

He won't be told unfortunately John

JohnFromLondonTown wrote:wild. You're coming across if the JH is guilty already? Your saying he's guilty & he himself is saying he's 100% innocent. Hold fire on the boy to the full facts come out.

jesus christ all bucking mighty look what i said

come on your intelligent how does anything you seen make him look innocent ?

absolutely nothing does but i think he is innocent but talk means rubbish all we and WSA got to go on is what NOTW tell them.

sorry thats facts if NOTW don't supply different tapes to what we seen john is screwed thats facts lets hope NOTW show something different.

Its worth remembering wild that one of the boys Barry Hearn appointed to his team a couple of months back is an ex Met Police Chief who he quite cleverly handed this issue over to for him to investigate & come back to the board with his findings & recommendations.

You might be right wild & JH is guilty. But you might be wrong too. Keep an open mind on this one boyo' with regard to the JH fella.

Wild i feel that Higgins is innocent until proven guilty and not guilty before proven innocent. I do not have privvy to all the information but trust the ivestigaters will do their job correctly. Time will tell.

im sorry before john that was uncalled for

i also think john was lead up the garden path but in all honesty that doesn't matter he is seen on tape and just supplying evidence or the investigation believing him will not be enough will it.

people us have to trust the WSA in what the do and run this sport.betting firms got to trust things are seen to be done right for them even in reality its not right..

what use would betting firms sponsoring snooker if its seen to be fixed so that someone wins even if its not so in effect letting john off the hook on just mooney's say so that he had nothing to do with it or the investigation believing him will not be good enough will it...letting john off will be seen as sweeping it under the carpet with sponsors.

virtually john will have to be seen on tape saying he wont be involved in this thats the only hope for him to get off scotch free will that ever happen ? doubt that...so he will get a ban it will not be a life ban proberbly a tournament or 2 ban and if he dont get a ban that nickname "The Wizard of Wishaw" would have come true and snooker be seen as covering it up.

yes its speculating but hat what forums do we speculate on who wins tournaments we speculate on things we hear to discuss it.

i don't even think john is guilty so how can i presume him innocent until hes proven guilty in my eyes,opinion whatever he is innocent of these charges.

This is always the problem with the "to be clean you have to look clean" mantra. It switches the onus to proving you are innocent. Personally I'd prefer an investigation based on actual evidence: betting patterns; suspicious shot selection; proven connections between players and suspects in match-fixing cases. This was entrapment of the very worst kind, and I personally think allegations by trashy tabloids would be best if ignored. If they set up a sting based on evidence or a tip-off that Higgins would fix a result, then that evidence should be turned over and be thoroughly investigated. Entrapment isn't tolerated in criminal law because it's not motivated by justice, and any investigation into wrong-doing should adopt a similar approach.

OK - I'm going to wade into this now - firstly the evidence has been handed over. Now crucially there is something called Innocent until proven guilty in this country - and John Higgins hasn't been declared guilty yet by the official enquiry. Although you all have your views on the evidence- and I respect that let's not forget that at the moment nothing has been proven against John yet. The time to debate that is after the outcome of the enquiry.

All I am saying is let's keep an open mind

you know as well as i do its all political correctness today..

snooker is at a crossroads the governing body has to do things that would benefit the sport long term not benefit a individual i think theres enough there to tell us john knew very little about what was going on most probably pat mooney told him what he needed to know and possibly put that mafia seed in to john's mind in the first place to keep him sweet who really knows again only speculating but realistic can you see a way out for john where he can carry on with his career where he left off ?

my mind is closed to the fact the guy been made to look someone hes not can any of us recognize the John Higgins thats been painted in the NOTW ? I CANT because i dont believe for one minute hes guilty.

footygirl wrote:OK - I'm going to wade into this now - firstly the evidence has been handed over. Now crucially there is something called Innocent until proven guilty in this country - and John Higgins hasn't been declared guilty yet by the official enquiry. Although you all have your views on the evidence- and I respect that let's not forget that at the moment nothing has been proven against John yet. The time to debate that is after the outcome of the enquiry.

All I am saying is let's keep an open mind

Well, IMO there are two issues at hand, the first one is fixing a match previously, the second one is conspiring to fix a match.

One of these is un-proven, and for the record I think he is innocent, however the other is evident on the video. Both of these IMO are equally damaging of the sport, and both change the way you feel about a players integrity.

There is no light at the end of this tunnel, it would take a miracle to salvage any good from this.