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Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Monique » 05 May 2010 Read

Templeton Peck wrote:I think Monique just wants to see Higgins booted out because Ronnie has been whipped by him several times this season!


I wondered how long it would take before someone came up with that crap ;)

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby GJ » 05 May 2010 Read

i want higgins proven innocent so robbo can take his number 1 spot off him on the table not off it

:afro:

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Wildey » 05 May 2010 Read

Templeton Peck wrote:I think Monique just wants to see Higgins booted out because Ronnie has been whipped by him several times this season!

thats a joke right ? <laugh>

seriously monique would never think like that she is a snooker person and not just a Ronnie person and she would have prefered if nothing like this has happened and we move on in to next season.

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Sickpotter » 05 May 2010 Read

I'm still up in the air.

I really want to believe Higgins is innocent but here's what sticks in my craw.......

Wouldn't the paper be setting themselves up for a HUGE libel suit if they've falsely reported the actual events of the meeting? :huh:

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby SnookerFan » 05 May 2010 Read

gallantrabbit wrote:yes sick but for a rag like the NOTW that is bread and butter. Their lawyers are the most overworked in the land.


Yeah, like John said, these people are parasites, that would do anything to sell papers. Since when have newspapers been concerned with publishing the facts?

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Sickpotter » 05 May 2010 Read

Even if the paper is willing to go through the lawsuits that result from false reporting, it seems to me that the lawsuits that could result from this would far outweigh any benefit.

Higgins - sues for defamation of character which effectively ended his career....several million pounds would be a likely award
Mooney - lost board position, defamation of character.....several million pounds
WPBSA - sues for damaging the sport's reputation......God only knows how much of an award that could produce.

The list is long as to who would have to be paid off should the lawsuits come to pass, how much is the paper willing to pay?

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Monique » 05 May 2010 Read

sickpotter wrote:I'm still up in the air.

I really want to believe Higgins is innocent but here's what sticks in my craw.......

Wouldn't the paper be setting themselves up for a HUGE libel suit if they've falsely reported the actual events of the meeting? :huh:


I don't think they would take that risk sickpotter. They have lawyers and they certainlly know how far they can go.

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Wildey » 05 May 2010 Read

Monique wrote:
sickpotter wrote:I'm still up in the air.

I really want to believe Higgins is innocent but here's what sticks in my craw.......

Wouldn't the paper be setting themselves up for a HUGE libel suit if they've falsely reported the actual events of the meeting? :huh:


I don't think they would take that risk sickpotter. They have lawyers and they certainlly know how far they can go.


i think the law needs to change regarding this you really cant have newspapers doing this because its not in public intrest or to solve a crime its to sell newspapers (im flarrered to be honest they see snooker as a major newspaper seller) really in these types of things they got to report it to the police and not go it alone so that the sting is done in a profesional manor and it isnt done to quote mooney in a intimidated way so that the targets are instigating the deal and not the other way round.

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby GJ » 05 May 2010 Read

wildJONESEYE wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/why-i-am-out-to-nail-mazher-mahmood-474264.html

a article writen in 2006 about Mazher Mahmood of NOTW


:chin: ;)

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Rocket_ron » 05 May 2010 Read

case_master wrote:Some people have said a one year ban. However that would amount to as much as a lifetime ban, firstly he would lose his ranking – meaning when the ban was over he would have to compete in the POIS tour for a place on the main tour…with the ban included he would be out of the top 16 for 3 or 4 years at least…putting him at 38

good point, one year ban would finish him anyway

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby GrumpyMrDavros » 05 May 2010 Read

SnookerFan wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:yes sick but for a rag like the NOTW that is bread and butter. Their lawyers are the most overworked in the land.


Yeah, like John said, these people are parasites, that would do anything to sell papers. Since when have newspapers been concerned with publishing the facts?


I certainly agree with you to an very large extent . However ....


... publishing articles about named indivuals is very different from writing offensive and totally made up articles about unnamed Liverpool fans at Hillsborough because the named indivual can sue for defamation

The problem for John Higgins ( And boy is it problem ) is that despite the interview being edited and perhaps having his quotes taken out of context it doen't alter in any way what he's said . He's seen agreeing to throw frames for money .

What makes things look even bleaker for Higgins IMHO is that his excuse that " I went along with it because I was terrified it was the Russian mafia " doesn't sound very convincing at all

Rightfully Higgins will be allowed to put his case across at the upcoming WPBSA inquiry but as Barry Hearne said " It's not looking good John "

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Sickpotter » 06 May 2010 Read

Templeton Peck wrote:Well he's definitely brought the game into disrepute by not informing the WSA so I think it's a certainty he'll get more than a fine, but Thorburn did crack cocaine and only got a two match ban. Higgins (the other one) decked the ref and only got a five match ban. I think a 2 match ban like Thorburn's would see him punished enough, and a ban longer than what Higgins got for actual assault would be disproportionate.



Wasn't crack.

If guilt is proven, regardless of the the tour they were planning it for, it brings every match they play into question. That it was planned for a different tour is irrelevant to the image of snooker and the WPBSA. In order to ensure the tour's integrity the WPBSA would have no choice but to give him a ban. How long is the question but I'd bet at least long enough to finish John's career on the pro tour. :sad:

I really hope he's found innocent, terrible end to a great player if he's found guilty :-(

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby SnookerFan » 06 May 2010 Read

GrumpyMrDavros wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:yes sick but for a rag like the NOTW that is bread and butter. Their lawyers are the most overworked in the land.


Yeah, like John said, these people are parasites, that would do anything to sell papers. Since when have newspapers been concerned with publishing the facts?


I certainly agree with you to an very large extent . However ....


... publishing articles about named indivuals is very different from writing offensive and totally made up articles about unnamed Liverpool fans at Hillsborough because the named indivual can sue for defamation

The problem for John Higgins ( And boy is it problem ) is that despite the interview being edited and perhaps having his quotes taken out of context it doen't alter in any way what he's said . He's seen agreeing to throw frames for money .

What makes things look even bleaker for Higgins IMHO is that his excuse that " I went along with it because I was terrified it was the Russian mafia " doesn't sound very convincing at all

Rightfully Higgins will be allowed to put his case across at the upcoming WPBSA inquiry but as Barry Hearne said " It's not looking good John "


Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Though the old adage about not being able to trust the date in the News of the World, let alone the news, may be true. But to accuse somebody and name somebody, they'd better be able to back it up with some kind of fact, otherwise they're going down. It's how reliable the facts are that should be questioned.

Unfortunately, we've all seen the videos, and Barry Hearn is right. It doesn't look good. He is seen saying certain things, and even if heavily editted, it's hard to see how what he said was out of context.

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Eirebilly » 06 May 2010 Read

To be honest i am still shocked by all of this. I honestly want John Higgins to be innocent and the NotW creamed. I am not privvy to any of the information sorrounding the incident so i refraim from making any personal judgements about Higgins. One thing i will say is that the NotW are s-cum of the Earth :bird: .

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Casey » 06 May 2010 Read

NOTW blackmailed Max Mosley, now that's illegal and they knew it. However just like Higgins edited video, loopholes and interpretation of the law comes into play.

Just like the Higgins case not all is black and white.

I have also received the names of two high profile players that have backed John's innocence campaign, anybody that wants to know who they are can send me a PM

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Wildey » 06 May 2010 Read

N_Castle07 wrote:I will never ever buy a copy of the News Of The World ever again. They will never get my custom and i encourage everyone else to boycott them too.

theres more supesedly revelations in it this week so i want to see that to see what they say but after that i agree.

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby SnookerFan » 06 May 2010 Read

N_Castle07 wrote:I will never ever buy a copy of the News Of The World ever again. They will never get my custom and i encourage everyone else to boycott them too.


I don't buy it anyway. <laugh>

Like all of us, I hope John is innocent, despite how it looks. Come on John clear your name, and come on Hearn keep snooker's reputation good. <ok>

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby N_Castle07 » 06 May 2010 Read

wildJONESEYE wrote:
N_Castle07 wrote:I will never ever buy a copy of the News Of The World ever again. They will never get my custom and i encourage everyone else to boycott them too.

theres more supesedly revelations in it this week so i want to see that to see what they say but after that i agree.


How do you mean Wild? More revelations about Higgins or other players?

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Casey » 06 May 2010 Read

N_Castle07 wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote:
N_Castle07 wrote:I will never ever buy a copy of the News Of The World ever again. They will never get my custom and i encourage everyone else to boycott them too.

theres more supesedly revelations in it this week so i want to see that to see what they say but after that i agree.


How do you mean Wild? More revelations about Higgins or other players?


Nobody knows for sure, there were other tapped meeting between the NOTW and Pat Mooney so it might be that.

I would imagine that the NOTW would have had too hand all of their 'evidence' over to the WPBSA already.

I think we will have a decision on this by the end of the month.

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Casey » 07 May 2010 Read

Mooney added: "We arrived in Kiev and were met by a private car off the f light and fast-tracked through customs.

"We were taken to the venue where we met the staff and agreed a provisional layout for the event.

"The reporter said, 'Don't 'f*** me about - these are serious guys and if we don't get this agreed I'm in serious trouble. Remember they like a bet so we need to talk to John'. I said we'd talk later, not wishing to take this any further.

"At dinner we were joined by a man named Nichal and when we were leaving they took me aside and said he made millions of pounds with the reporter by fixing cricket and if we were to have this happen he would need to know some frame results.

"This was delivered in a very threatening manner by all three people with us. I was concerned because I thought I was dealing with Russian crime figures. Nichal then left and the reporter said, 'You understand that is not a guy you f*** about with.

"As we had drunk quite a lot we went back to the hotel where we sat in the reporter's suite. John left the room and they said this (the match-fixing) had to be done. I felt extremely threatened and said I'd talk to John the next day.

"In the morning I told John to tell them whatever they wanted to hear to ensure we got out in one piece. The News of the World set out deliberately to tarnish an unblemished snooker career and character and spared no expense to entrap both John and myself in what is a disgraceful piece of reporting.

"We can certainly be accused of being idiots and possibly even naive with hindsight.

"However, to have been so deliberately set up in a foreign country when doing nothing other than working on behalf of our sport is malicious in the extreme."



Pat Mooney Daily record

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Roland » 07 May 2010 Read

I was discussing this in the pub last night and the more we talked about it the more I convinced myself that Higgins and Mooney are innocent and were completely stitched up by someone from the anti-Hearn brigade.

The fact we're talking about World Series events which are exhibitions is one of the main points here. When I spoke to Mooney he said that the criteria of local players getting a spot was that they had made a century break. It stands to reason if you're setting up one of these events and it's going to go live on national tv of the country that's hosting it that you're going to let their players get some air time, so what do you do? Answer, let them have a few shots. How do you do that? By missing balls on purpose. It's what happens in exhibitions all over the place.

Does anyone bet on World Series events? Jimmy White won one last year, how did that happen? Lots of questions about the World Series, but the main point being its sole purpose was to demonstrate the popularity of snooker across Continental Europe and in that they have done a great job. Someone is bitter enough about something to go to NOTW and stitch up the creators of the World Series and currently you can't see it taking place any more, and the SPA has possibly lost its leader.

NOTW = scum

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Monique » 07 May 2010 Read

Sonny wrote:I was discussing this in the pub last night and the more we talked about it the more I convinced myself that Higgins and Mooney are innocent and were completely stitched up by someone from the anti-Hearn brigade.

The fact we're talking about World Series events which are exhibitions is one of the main points here. When I spoke to Mooney he said that the criteria of local players getting a spot was that they had made a century break. It stands to reason if you're setting up one of these events and it's going to go live on national tv of the country that's hosting it that you're going to let their players get some air time, so what do you do? Answer, let them have a few shots. How do you do that? By missing balls on purpose. It's what happens in exhibitions all over the place.

Does anyone bet on World Series events? Jimmy White won one last year, how did that happen? Lots of questions about the World Series, but the main point being its sole purpose was to demonstrate the popularity of snooker across Continental Europe and in that they have done a great job. Someone is bitter enough about something to go to NOTW and stitch up the creators of the World Series and currently you can't see it taking place any more, and the SPA has possibly lost its leader.

NOTW = scum


Well I certainly wish for the sake of snooker and for John that they can prove this. It's so sad to see a brilliant career end this way. But why on earth did they not report it to WPBSA as soon as they hit the UK ground?
What were they thinking about? If they felt that threatened would they go back there and carry on with the event?
And if they felt that threatened then they are good actores: they looked quite relax on that vid.

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Monique » 07 May 2010 Read

Sonny wrote:I think it would be easy enough to play along in such a scenario.


Honestly I don't. I don't think anyone can look that relaxed if they are fightened to the core. I know with 100% certainty that calling WPBSA to report the incident would have been my first reaction, that and/or contacting my lawyers (especially in Pat Mooney's case). Also, I know for certain I would not even envisage to go back there to carry on with the event.

Re: Not so black and white - Higgins has a case

Postby Casey » 07 May 2010 Read

Well I certainly wish for the sake of snooker and for John that they can prove this. It's so sad to see a brilliant career end this way. But why on earth did they not report it to WPBSA as soon as they hit the UK ground?
What were they thinking about? If they felt that threatened would they go back there and carry on with the event?


Monique, hopefully these are the questions that will be answered through the investigation.

When the new and video first broke it looked awful, however reports from other sources and Pat since, have provided some credibility to John’s claim.

I don’t know the answer and I can only hope he is found innocent.

Will he be? Well what I would say is this – Are the WPBSA willing to risk letting John back on the tour with his ability to win the world championship?

Now what I mean by that is, even if they find his story plausible, they know that not all will agree. Therefore if John won the world title next year the WPBSA might fear a backlash.
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