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Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

Lucky wrote:"someone has to be the scapegoat for all this to stop."


Unbelievable statement......goes against everything that's both morally and legally right.

dont give a toss.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:Hann was a fall guy but that obviously didnt work

are you completely stupid

Hann wasn't punished at all for the bribe etc he walked away before anything was done about that the punishment he had was well if he cant be bothered to fight his fight then he must be guilty.

until Joe Jogia nobody at all was punished by the WPBSA for gambling wrong doing since Peter Francisco in 1992.

hopefully that taught players a lesson and yet Stephen Lee got suspended in a match after that happened.

the question is was Stephen Lee that stupid?

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Lucky

Wild WC wrote:
Lucky wrote:"someone has to be the scapegoat for all this to stop."


Unbelievable statement......goes against everything that's both morally and legally right.

dont give a toss.



:dizzy: ........I rest my case your honour <ok>

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Ayrshirebhoy

Not the biggest fan of Stephen but the thought of him being innocent and being made a scapegoat is disgusting. If he is innocent I find it a real shame as he was hitting some of his best form in his career and I think hel be pretty much finished regardless of verdict anyway.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby GJ

Agree with lucky 100 %

wild what are you thinking are you on drugs

and im not joking asking that .............

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

no im not on drugs and im deadly serious here.

sorry but thats where im at with all this Rubbish.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Monique

Well sorry wild but what you are saying there is not only disgusting and unfair, it's also stupid.
I'm all for a strong stance against the people who are dishonest, but punishing innocents will not reflect well on the sport and will not stop the dishonest ones, quite the opposite. Because if people are put in a situation such that, when they are behaving properly, they can still be punished on mere rumours or suspicions, then why would they behave? The integrity of snooker is essential and part of it is also integrity and fairness towards its exponents, the players.
And a very last word… before you write such things take 2 minutes to think about how YOU would feel if being innocent and honest you were made a scapegoat, robbed of your pride, your name and your livelihood.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

Lifes not fair Monique

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Alex0paul

Wild WC wrote:Lifes not fair Monique


So if a loved one of yours was sentenced to death as a scapegoat for a murder that was committed because they couldn't find the real killer you'd be fine?

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Monique

Wild WC wrote:Lifes not fair Monique


I agree, some of us are born strong and healthy, others weak and maimed, some of us grow up in a secure country surrounded by a good family, others become orphans and soldier children and have no choice …
I could go on all day.
BUT that for me is the the reason for everyone of us - within the limits of our power - to make it as fair and good as we possibly can for those around us and ourselves. It's hard enough and full of sorrows as it is, no need to add to it.

Players must be treated fairly, innocents should not been punished and because a blind eye was turned maybe in the past, doesn't mean it should go the opposite way and become a witches hunt.

Also it's not because a problem is not talked about that it does not exist. Or because it's talked about that it's a new issue and getting worse.
You don't want to hear about doping in athletes? Simple: stop testing them. You won't hear anything anymore, but does it solve the problem?
I don't believe cheating is a main issue in snooker and if anything it's less of a problem than a few years back. It's talked about more because the authorities care more and don't try to sweep it under the carpet.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Alpha

Monique wrote:



I don't believe parakeeting is a main issue in snooker and if anything it's less of a problem than a few years back. It's talked about more because the authorities care more and don't try to sweep it under the carpet.[/quote]

Since snooker is so reliant on betting companies for sponsorship, World Snooker has to be seen to be caring more. Suspending Stephen Lee may well be an overreaction (and a shame too, since he was in such a rich vein of form) but if World Snooker want to retain the trust of the betting industry, they can not afford to sweep a story like this under the carpet.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

Lets not forget suspending lee was not a knee jerk reaction it was because of a 4 year period of suspect matches not a isolated incident.

thepchaya un-nooh was not suspended pending a inquiery last year and was cleared.

Stephen Lee must have a hell of a lot of questions to answer. Leting him continue playing like they had been doing previously was wrong if they stil suspected he was stil doing when he had already been investigated previously.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby GJ

Alex0paul wrote:
Wild WC wrote:Lifes not fair Monique


So if a loved one of yours was sentenced to death as a scapegoat for a murder that was committed because they couldn't find the real killer you'd be fine?



<ok>

i noticed wild has conveniently avoided responding to you comment

:parrot: :parrot: :parrot: :parrot: :parrot: :parrot:

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Monique

Wild WC wrote:Lets not forget suspending lee was not a knee jerk reaction it was because of a 4 year period of suspect matches not a isolated incident.

thepchaya un-nooh was not suspended pending a inquiery last year and was cleared.

Stephen Lee must have a hell of a lot of questions to answer. Leting him continue playing like they had been doing previously was wrong if they stil suspected he was stil doing when he had already been investigated previously.


I agree with that as well. It wasn't a knee jerk reaction. They never suspended Maguire or Burnett or Un-Nooh. They only did suspend Jogia after they had examined the evidence and decided he had a case to answer. So they must have some strong reason in Lee's case. Maybe the PL incident was the drop that caused the bucket to overflow, I don't know…
My reaction wasn't about Lee suspension in particular, it was about your statements about it being OK to make people scapegoats and the idea that it would deter others to be dishonest. That is plain wrong and won't work anyway.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

OK Monique it might be strong but im fed up with it all.

after the Higgins debacle i expected players to learn a lesson and stay clear and yet it still pops up.

i want players thats found Guilty have the Hardest Lesson possible and never play professionally again But even if their name pops up and it cant be proven i want it dealt with.

its like Cancer so getting Rid of some players is a short Prize to pay long term.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Monique

Wild WC wrote:OK Monique it might be strong but im fed up with it all.

after the Higgins debacle i expected players to learn a lesson and stay clear and yet it still pops up.

i want players thats found Guilty have the Hardest Lesson possible and never play professionally again But even if their name pops up and it cant be proven i want it dealt with.

its like Cancer so getting Rid of some players is a short Prize to pay long term.


You can't reason like that wild.

The other day a malevolent nutter - or most probably someone bitter to have bet on Shaun and lost - came up on twitter suggesting that Shaun Murphy had lost on purpose to Pankaj Advani. And within hours it was in the press including in India.

It was a ridiculous accusation, but one has to be extremely careful with those things because the consequence for the individuals and the sport could be huge. It's so easy nowadays on social networks to start rumours and evil people exist, or jealous, or bitter. You pick your choice.

I'm all for zero tolerance towards those proven guilty, but the innocents need to be protected.
The answer is not to punish players on mere suspicions. It's to give the disciplinary unit the means to act diligently and to have a policy of being transparent towards the public regarding the facts and the evidence.

I will always regret that some charges were dropped in the Higgins case and that the unedited tape wasn't made public. As it is now, some - including me - will always have their questions and doubts about what really happened. That's not good.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

yea well anyone taking things from twitter needs sacking.

people will always make malicious statements on twitter or on Facebook because they feel hard done by so only idiots will take that as if it was True.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby snooky147

Wild WC wrote:OK Monique it might be strong but im fed up with it all.

after the Higgins debacle i expected players to learn a lesson and stay clear and yet it still pops up.

i want players thats found Guilty have the Hardest Lesson possible and never play professionally again But even if their name pops up and it cant be proven i want it dealt with.

its like Cancer so getting Rid of some players is a short Prize to pay long term.


So, guilty by association is your cure?. What a great way to get rid of a few players in your way. Spread out a bit of betting poison about them, wait for the press to do their bit and then .....ta-da , their gone, guilty of nothing but innuendo. The trouble there is that it would never stop. The only way to root this out is with fair and balanced investigations.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

snooky147 wrote:
Wild WC wrote:OK Monique it might be strong but im fed up with it all.

after the Higgins debacle i expected players to learn a lesson and stay clear and yet it still pops up.

i want players thats found Guilty have the Hardest Lesson possible and never play professionally again But even if their name pops up and it cant be proven i want it dealt with.

its like Cancer so getting Rid of some players is a short Prize to pay long term.


So, guilty by association is your cure?. What a great way to get rid of a few players in your way. Spread out a bit of betting poison about them, wait for the press to do their bit and then .....ta-da , their gone, guilty of nothing but innuendo. The trouble there is that it would never stop. The only way to root this out is with fair and balanced investigations.

No not Press they are just idiots Jesus christ when Selby beat Ronnie in the Welsh Final a few years ago from Behind the Press in Wales even Questioned if Ronnie had thrown the Match.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby GJ

wild

Say your a snooker pro and rumours circulate your match fixing would you be happy to lose your whole career for the good of snooker :? :parrot: :parrot:

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

GJ wrote:wild

Say your a snooker pro and rumours circulate your match fixing would you be happy to lose your whole career for the good of snooker :? :parrot: :parrot:

No

But as a fan i dont really care about any of them TBH.

i just want all this Crap to Stop.

Nothing Harms a Sport more than Betting Scandals.

Drugs is nothing in comparisons because Drugs are there to try and Help someone win Trying to lose is worst in my opinion.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby GJ

very cut throat attitude mate

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

GJ wrote:very cut throat attitude mate

god if players haven't learned by now it needs to be cut throat

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Casey

Lee should not have been suspended until the WPBSA confirmed that he had a case to answer to. I can only imagine the lawsuit if he is found innocent. Hopefully it won’t take too long to get sorted.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Wildey

Casey wrote:Lee should not have been suspended until the WPBSA confirmed that he had a case to answer to. I can only imagine the lawsuit if he is found innocent. Hopefully it won’t take too long to get sorted.

i explained why earlier

He was already under investigation Long time before the Higgins Prem league match they had no alternative there was Too much coincidence going on for them just to let him carry on playing.

Lets be honest here the only precedent for this is Joe Jogia and he got a 2 year Ban.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Casey

Wild WC wrote:
Casey wrote:Lee should not have been suspended until the WPBSA confirmed that he had a case to answer to. I can only imagine the lawsuit if he is found innocent. Hopefully it won’t take too long to get sorted.

i explained why earlier

He was already under investigation Long time before the Higgins Prem league match they had no alternative there was Too much coincidence going on for them just to let him carry on playing.

Lets be honest here the only precedent for this is Joe Jogia and he got a 2 year Ban.


This is different to Jogia as that match never took place. The Hann deal never went through and the Higgins case was about a match in a tournament that didn't exist...so the punishment is going to be very interesting.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Monique

Wild WC wrote:
GJ wrote:very cut throat attitude mate

god if players haven't learned by now it needs to be cut throat



Learn what wild? If they have done nothing and are dragged into some "scandal" by mere rumours, what is there they could do about it? Again I'm not speaking specifically about the Lee case, I'm speaking in general.
That's why your reasoning will not work. If people are innocent, there is nothing for them to have "learned" because they did nothing wrong.
What players must know is that if there is suspicion, it will be investigated to the bottom, that they will be treated fairly but that there will be no tolerance whatsoever or under the carpet sweeping if they are guilty. They must know that the consequences - if found guilty - will be career ending.
But they should also be assured that they will not been thrown out of their job on mere malevolent rumours.

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby Casey

Witz78 wrote:Francisco
Hann
Jogia
Lee

Its a conspiracy against players i like


I bet Kevin Webster is your fav Corrie character too :evilgrin:

Re: Stephen Lee Statement

Postby PLtheRef

Monique wrote:Learn what wild? If they have done nothing and are dragged into some "scandal" by mere rumours, what is there they could do about it? Again I'm not speaking specifically about the Lee case, I'm speaking in general.
That's why your reasoning will not work. If people are innocent, there is nothing for them to have "learned" because they did nothing wrong.
What players must know is that if there is suspicion, it will be investigated to the bottom, that they will be treated fairly but that there will be no tolerance whatsoever or under the carpet sweeping if they are guilty. They must know that the consequences - if found guilty - will be career ending.
But they should also be assured that they will not been thrown out of their job on mere malevolent rumours.


Spot on Monique


Wild, your suggestion would not even stand up in the street, never mind in court.