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Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Cannonball

Witz78 wrote:
GJ wrote:snooker backer posted something interesting on twitter appartenlty trump isnt the most popular player going by searches online

so he isnt as popular as some think ...........


i would take what she says with a pinch of salt mate

anti-Judd if ever i saw it


Is snooker backer the same person who is behind Feb's tourney at SWSA? If so, is this view on twitter the result of the Judd feet on table thing up there?

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby PLtheRef

Jewell wrote:Ronnie coming back would be the best thing ever! :-D

Even when it was initially announced he would be missing the rest of the season I said he would come back for the Worlds, and it looks my prediction is going to be coming to fruition. :-D

Over the last few months we've seen little signs here and there to suggest Ronnie will be coming back to defend his crown. All that remains is for the announcement to be made.

Can't wait for the Crucible now, with Selby in such great form, what price a Ronnie-Selby final? That one could possibly be the most anticipated match in snooker history, even the Ronnie would be salivating at the prospect of that match up.


A lot of people agree with you - for the tournament it probably be good for the build up to the event. The long awaited return of Ronnie O'Sullivan, the one player the fans would give their right arm to watch' - in the strictest realms of World Snooker hyperbole of course.

For Ronnie himself I think it could be a very bad thing and these are the reasons why;

He will be coming to Sheffield to play on the 20th April having not won a professional match since beating Carter eleven and a half months previously.

He will be woefully short of match practice - the Snooker Legends events do not count as genuine preparation to defend the biggest championship in this sport.

As Number 1 seed he will not have to enter the qualifiers - removing essentially the only competitive avenue for him to take - on top of this it will also mean taking on someone who will be considerably match sharper at least than him, and also on top of this will have won between one and five best of 19 frame matches to qualify for the tournament.


Personally, I don't think it'd be fair on Ronnie to turn up on April 20th, get beat in the first round and be eliminated before the tournament really gets going. Likewise, it wouldn't be fair on the tournament to build up the return of O'Sullivan for him to lose in the first round which is more than likely.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby GJ

As usual you post alot of sense Patrick

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Cannonball

PLtheRef wrote:
Jewell wrote:Ronnie coming back would be the best thing ever! :-D

Even when it was initially announced he would be missing the rest of the season I said he would come back for the Worlds, and it looks my prediction is going to be coming to fruition. :-D

Over the last few months we've seen little signs here and there to suggest Ronnie will be coming back to defend his crown. All that remains is for the announcement to be made.

Can't wait for the Crucible now, with Selby in such great form, what price a Ronnie-Selby final? That one could possibly be the most anticipated match in snooker history, even the Ronnie would be salivating at the prospect of that match up.


A lot of people agree with you - for the tournament it probably be good for the build up to the event. The long awaited return of Ronnie O'Sullivan, the one player the fans would give their right arm to watch' - in the strictest realms of World Snooker hyperbole of course.

For Ronnie himself I think it could be a very bad thing and these are the reasons why;

He will be coming to Sheffield to play on the 20th April having not won a professional match since beating Carter eleven and a half months previously.

He will be woefully short of match practice - the Snooker Legends events do not count as genuine preparation to defend the biggest championship in this sport.

As Number 1 seed he will not have to enter the qualifiers - removing essentially the only competitive avenue for him to take - on top of this it will also mean taking on someone who will be considerably match sharper at least than him, and also on top of this will have won between one and five best of 19 frame matches to qualify for the tournament.


Personally, I don't think it'd be fair on Ronnie to turn up on April 20th, get beat in the first round and be eliminated before the tournament really gets going. Likewise, it wouldn't be fair on the tournament to build up the return of O'Sullivan for him to lose in the first round which is more than likely.


Robertson doesn't agree. He is quoted as saying Ronnie could just practice once every couple of weeks and turn up and do well. I don't think that's true. But a Ronnie who'd put a solid month of practice, and played matches against very good players, would be a threat to anyone. He decided to prove a few folk wrong last year, got his head on, and was a very worthy champion. It's all about Ronnie's mind. If it happy and at one with the table, he's almost unbeatable. Stupid amounts of natural talent takes a lot of pressure off a player; they always know they have it in their cue to turn it on, and win, even if things are going wrong.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Witz78

If he decides to come back for the Worlds whats to stop him playing in some of the tournaments before it too

who says its an all or nothing scenario

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby GJ

witz

the draws are done for all except china open

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Skullman

PLtheRef wrote:A lot of people agree with you - for the tournament it probably be good for the build up to the event. The long awaited return of Ronnie O'Sullivan, the one player the fans would give their right arm to watch' - in the strictest realms of World Snooker hyperbole of course.

For Ronnie himself I think it could be a very bad thing and these are the reasons why;

He will be coming to Sheffield to play on the 20th April having not won a professional match since beating Carter eleven and a half months previously.

He will be woefully short of match practice - the Snooker Legends events do not count as genuine preparation to defend the biggest championship in this sport.

As Number 1 seed he will not have to enter the qualifiers - removing essentially the only competitive avenue for him to take - on top of this it will also mean taking on someone who will be considerably match sharper at least than him, and also on top of this will have won between one and five best of 19 frame matches to qualify for the tournament.

Personally, I don't think it'd be fair on Ronnie to turn up on April 20th, get beat in the first round and be eliminated before the tournament really gets going. Likewise, it wouldn't be fair on the tournament to build up the return of O'Sullivan for him to lose in the first round which is more than likely.


Of course Ronnie may still have fear factor to a lot of lower ranked players. Even if the qualifier is match sharp and playing better than him, he may get enough fear frames off them to win.

After that though it'll be a lot harder. Not trying to belittle Ronnie's last World title but what are chances he'll run into MJW, Carter and Stevens again, three players who can't buy a win off him?

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Skullman

Jewell wrote:He could play himself into form as the tournament progresses, of course that relies on the draw to a large extent. Say he draws someone like Dominic Dale in the first round, with all due respect to Dominic, Ronnie wouldn't even need to practice for that one.


Isn't that what he tried in 2011? Look how that worked out. Of course Ronnie can win if he exclusively runs into his sweeties, but then so could anyone.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Roland

If Ronnie came back for the worlds he'd be seeded 1 and Selby 2 or 3 assuming he's WN1 or 2 at the next cut off and seeds 1 and 4 meet in one semi and 2 and 3 in the other so they would be in opposite halves. Dream final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby. It has to happen! If it does, Selby wins 18-17 after being 17-15 down. :D

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby PLtheRef

Skullman wrote:Of course Ronnie may still have fear factor to a lot of lower ranked players. Even if the qualifier is match sharp and playing better than him, he may get enough fear frames off them to win.

After that though it'll be a lot harder. Not trying to belittle Ronnie's last World title but what are chances he'll run into MJW, Carter and Stevens again, three players who can't buy a win off him?


You raise a good point there, but there is also a fear of a Ronnie O'Sullivan in form - look at how quickly and ruthlessly he can scythe his way through a draw, 2004 and 2008 being prime examples of this.

If we use a hypothetical situation at the moment which is nigh on certain to not happen and use the rankings for the Crucible (#1 seed playing #32, 2# against 31 and son on), Ronnie would play Jamie Cope in the first round - now Jamie hasn't played well for a couple of years and personally would be someone ideal for O'Sullivan as he is very much beatable

From then on it would be Carter in the Last 16, Maguire in the quarter-finals and Higgins in the semi-finals. Now you said Carter cannot buy a win off him, now that may well be true if you look at the way Ronnie's played against him in their last two WC meetings, 18-11 and 18-8 but that is when Ronnie was in form. Ronnie won't be coming to that match with any form other than a first round win.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Roland

It would be the biggest match in snooker history. Seriously.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby PLtheRef

Sonny wrote:It would be the biggest match in snooker history. Seriously.


I'm assuming this comeback includes needing 2 or 3 snookers in every frame

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Sickpotter

Has any of this thread been fact based or are we talking wishful thinking?

I haven't seen any news other than players/people other than Ronnie saying he's going to turn up.

What's Ronnies position? Last direct statement I saw was he was not defending and wouldn't compete this season, full stop.

Personally I'd love him to defend but I'm not sure it can happen for various reasons....

The players contracts stipulate a lot of responsibilities and expectations that don't just revolve around one event.

Is it fair to the rest of the players that Ronnie hasn't signed or done any of the promotion that's been required of them?

The man will be match cold and no matter one's talent that's a hard position.

Does the game hype the "return of Ronnie" only for Ronnie to fall victim to a match sharp nobody?

Doesn't that put huge pressure on Ronnie, (something he's been trying to take out of his life) making it even more likely he'll have an early exit?

Does allowing Ronnie to play undermine Hearns position and weaken his ability to drive snooker the way he wants? It certainly would drive other players to believe they could take the same stance and play the game part time, a direct conflict with the player contracts.

I think there's a lot more to consider than just how much Ronnie's fans would love it, it'll be interesting to see how it plays (or doesn't) out.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Roland

The fact is he probably won't defend his title because he's got more to lose than to gain.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Witz78

Jewell wrote:Skull,

In 2011 I don't think match sharpness really came into it. TBH, he came up against Higgins who was the better player and won fair and square.


i disagree with that

Ronnie wasnt firing on all cylinders and clearly wasnt 100% in the head but he was 8-5 up on Higgins who was well out of sorts and looking poor.

Ronnie could and should have won 2 of them last 3 frames anyway but instead got pegged back to 8-8 and the damage was effectively done as Higgins came out at nightime with his typical grit and belief and Ronnie almost went through the motions knowing hed missed the trick earlier to go 10-6 up.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Witz78

Sonny wrote:The fact is he probably won't defend his title because he's got more to lose than to gain.


thats true that hes got more to lose than gain probably, but im not really sure that logic would even come into Ronnies thinking.

plus if he did play and doesnt defend the title, then the obvious ready made excuse is that hes not match sharp, so in some ways hes got nothing to lose actually, as theres little or no expectation on him.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Skullman

Witz78 wrote:
Sonny wrote:The fact is he probably won't defend his title because he's got more to lose than to gain.


thats true that hes got more to lose than gain probably, but im not really sure that logic would even come into Ronnies thinking.

plus if he did play and doesnt defend the title, then the obvious ready made excuse is that hes not match sharp, so in some ways hes got nothing to lose actually, as theres little or no expectation on him.


Little expectation? Everywhere I look, I see Ronnie fanboys certain that he is so far ahead of the rest that he'll win the Worlds just by turning up. Plus, hearing from Hendry, someone who Ronnie respects, that he should win after a couple of weeks practice will put pressure on him.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Cannonball

Folk reckon ROS would have a good chance for a few reasons. He's proven himself good over the long format, like Robbo, but unlike Selby. Secondly, the standard of snooker has clearly fallen, which leaves the competition vulnerable to ROS. Thirdly, he has more talent in his wrong hand, than the rest of the tour can manage with their best hand. Fourthly, as Hendry says, ROS is the greatest he's played against. The last point is very important, because when the pressure is on, Ronnie knows full well that he can find that extra something special and kick into overdrive, and complete the type of clearance that others can only dream of; e.g. the 92 at last years Worlds. Lastly, the competition will be knackered by the time the Worlds come round, jet-lag from the two Chinese events and lots of competitions this year will take a toll. ROS will be fresh and he will have more time to practice than the competition in the run-up to the Worlds.

Would he be under pressure; yes and no. No because no-one will expect him to do well after a year out. Yes, because folk will expect ROS to do well after a year out, because he's Ronnie.

Can he do it? He is certainly capable. I think he has at least 5 good years left, maybe 10 because of his superiority in natural talent.

The wood pushers will always hate ROS; the way he takes the pee out of his own talent only makes their jealousy and anger more inflamed. There are times when he infuriates. But Ronnie is Ronnie, and we should be thankful that the enigma is here at all. What he has done on the table should be a delight to any true snooker fan.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby PLtheRef

Trumpster wrote:Folk reckon ROS would have a good chance for a few reasons. He's proven himself good over the long format, like Robbo, but unlike Selby. Secondly, the standard of snooker has clearly fallen, which leaves the competition vulnerable to ROS. Thirdly, he has more talent in his wrong hand, than the rest of the tour can manage with their best hand. Fourthly, as Hendry says, ROS is the greatest he's played against. The last point is very important, because when the pressure is on, Ronnie knows full well that he can find that extra something special and kick into overdrive, and complete the type of clearance that others can only dream of; e.g. the 92 at last years Worlds. Lastly, the competition will be knackered by the time the Worlds come round, jet-lag from the two Chinese events and lots of competitions this year will take a toll. ROS will be fresh and he will have more time to practice than the competition in the run-up to the Worlds.

Would he be under pressure; yes and no. No because no-one will expect him to do well after a year out. Yes, because folk will expect ROS to do well after a year out, because he's Ronnie.

Can he do it? He is certainly capable. I think he has at least 5 good years left, maybe 10 because of his superiority in natural talent.

The wood pushers will always hate ROS; the way he takes the pee out of his own talent only makes their jealousy and anger more inflamed. There are times when he infuriates. But Ronnie is Ronnie, and we should be thankful that the enigma is here at all. What he has done on the table should be a delight to any true snooker fan.


The standard certainly hasn't dropped this year. Lets be clear on that one. It doesn't drop because one of the best players in the game decides to take a year off. If Ronnie was to go on and win this years event without playing for a year then you may have a point.

Ronnie came to the Crucible last year in good form - Quarter-Finalist in the Masters, winner of the German, Semi-Finalist of the Welsh and Quarter-Finalist in China. In 2008 he reached three ranking finals before Sheffield, in 2004 He reached two ranking finals, a semi and the Masters final. In the build up to 2001 he reached two ranking finals, a semi and reached the final of four of the six invitationals he was invited to.

This year he's not going to come with any form.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Cannonball

You've got to be joking. The standard at the Masters was pretty poor, when we compare it to the eras of Ronnie, Hendry and Davis. Mark Selby World No.1? Do me a favour.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby PLtheRef

Trumpster wrote:You've got to be joking. The standard at the Masters was pretty poor, when we compare it to the eras of Ronnie, Hendry and Davis. Mark Selby World No.1? Do me a favour.


Do you have a bee in your bonnet about Mark Selby being World Number 1 or something? Last time I checked the World rankings he does happen to be top of the list so I guess that makes him Number 1

If the standard is poor you do not get 20 century breaks - and seven 6-5 matches with a further couple of 6-4 results on top.

The standard does not automatically rise or drop if one player enters or doesn't enter a particular tournament.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:If he decides to come back for the Worlds whats to stop him playing in some of the tournaments before it too

who says its an all or nothing scenario

what tournaments

hes entered nothing and draws been made.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Sickpotter

I don't care how much talent you have, you can't go in cold to the most demanding event in snooker and have any realistic chance of winning.

Natural talent is great allowing players to take a few months off pick up a cue and pick up where they left off.

BUT.....as one gets older that is less and less feasible. As we age, the amount of time required to get back in the flow increases.

When I was in my 20's I could put my cue down for up to a year and it would take me less than a week of practice to get right back in it. As I got older I found it much harder. Now it would take me 10 hrs a day for 2 months to find my game after a year break. Sure I may roll in a ton within 5 frames after a long break but I won't have any consistency and that's what the WC is all about.

Are there any betting shops who've posted odds on ROS? It'd be interesting to see what the bookies think given in a normal season they make Ronnie fav in every event.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby PLtheRef

Sickpotter wrote:I don't care how much talent you have, you can't go in cold to the most demanding event in snooker and have any realistic chance of winning.

Natural talent is great allowing players to take a few months off pick up a cue and pick up where they left off.

BUT.....as one gets older that is less and less feasible. As we age, the amount of time required to get back in the flow increases.

When I was in my 20's I could put my cue down for up to a year and it would take me less than a week of practice to get right back in it. As I got older I found it much harder. Now it would take me 10 hrs a day for 2 months to find my game after a year break. Sure I may roll in a ton within 5 frames after a long break but I won't have any consistency and that's what the WC is all about.

Are there any betting shops who've posted odds on ROS? It'd be interesting to see what the bookies think given in a normal season they make Ronnie fav in every event.


Ronnie is 8-1 apparently according to the BBC sport website. Thats before even knowing whether he will compete.

Agree with you entirely, if Ronnie was that good that he could take a lay-off and pick up a cue immediately and start winning tournaments quite truthfully he would have won the only PTC he entered this year.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Sickpotter

Any shops offering odds on whether or not he'll even play?

IMO that might be a more interesting bet ;-)

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Monique

Sickpotter wrote:Has any of this thread been fact based or are we talking wishful thinking?

I haven't seen any news other than players/people other than Ronnie saying he's going to turn up.

What's Ronnies position? Last direct statement I saw was he was not defending and wouldn't compete this season, full stop.

Personally I'd love him to defend but I'm not sure it can happen for various reasons....

The players contracts stipulate a lot of responsibilities and expectations that don't just revolve around one event.

Is it fair to the rest of the players that Ronnie hasn't signed or done any of the promotion that's been required of them?

The man will be match cold and no matter one's talent that's a hard position.

Does the game hype the "return of Ronnie" only for Ronnie to fall victim to a match sharp nobody?

Doesn't that put huge pressure on Ronnie, (something he's been trying to take out of his life) making it even more likely he'll have an early exit?

Does allowing Ronnie to play undermine Hearns position and weaken his ability to drive snooker the way he wants? It certainly would drive other players to believe they could take the same stance and play the game part time, a direct conflict with the player contracts.

I think there's a lot more to consider than just how much Ronnie's fans would love it, it'll be interesting to see how it plays (or doesn't) out.


Playing part time is not in conflict with the players contract at all. It's withdrawing after entering an event that is.
Next season with the flat structure in most event I fully expect more players to start to pick and choose.
Hearn is the first to try to get Ronnie playing, he's the one who chases him. Why? Because he's bringing attention and fans and that's ultimately what the sponsors want. Ronnie has not asked to have the option to enter the WC, he's been offered it.
Why do you think some many players have stated an opinion about it? Because they are asked to. That simple.
It get snooker in the spotlight. It's a talking point.

Ronnie himself has said nothing, has not varied from his initial stance. It's all speculations and hype.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby GJ

Mon

I agree in 128 lay out players can pick and choose

Look at Tennis The big names like federer big and choose and peak for the big events

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Casey

Monique wrote:
Sickpotter wrote:Has any of this thread been fact based or are we talking wishful thinking?

I haven't seen any news other than players/people other than Ronnie saying he's going to turn up.

What's Ronnies position? Last direct statement I saw was he was not defending and wouldn't compete this season, full stop.

Personally I'd love him to defend but I'm not sure it can happen for various reasons....

The players contracts stipulate a lot of responsibilities and expectations that don't just revolve around one event.

Is it fair to the rest of the players that Ronnie hasn't signed or done any of the promotion that's been required of them?

The man will be match cold and no matter one's talent that's a hard position.

Does the game hype the "return of Ronnie" only for Ronnie to fall victim to a match sharp nobody?

Doesn't that put huge pressure on Ronnie, (something he's been trying to take out of his life) making it even more likely he'll have an early exit?

Does allowing Ronnie to play undermine Hearns position and weaken his ability to drive snooker the way he wants? It certainly would drive other players to believe they could take the same stance and play the game part time, a direct conflict with the player contracts.

I think there's a lot more to consider than just how much Ronnie's fans would love it, it'll be interesting to see how it plays (or doesn't) out.


Playing part time is not in conflict with the players contract at all. It's withdrawing after entering an event that is.
Next season with the flat structure in most event I fully expect more players to start to pick and choose.
Hearn is the first to try to get Ronnie playing, he's the one who chases him. Why? Because he's bringing attention and fans and that's ultimately what the sponsors want. Ronnie has not asked to have the option to enter the WC, he's been offered it.
Why do you think some many players have stated an opinion about it? Because they are asked to. That simple.
It get snooker in the spotlight. It's a talking point.

Ronnie himself has said nothing, has not varied from his initial stance. It's all speculations and hype.


I would put money on Hearn knowing what Ronnie's decision is and i would put even more on him playing at the crucible. Hype built up by Hearn, fair enough.

Re: Will he.....won't he???

Postby Wildey

This will he or wont he thing is Better for Hearn and the Publicity Machine than Ronnie playing in everything at the Moment but there will come a time everyone will need to know whats happening.

and that's up to Ronnie.