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Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Casey

Well I am more interested the out outcome of the investigation from 2 years ago, it seems to be the bigger fish. Hopefully we won't have to wait 9 months or so for an outcome.

Any word on Jogia's appeal or did the SPA pull their £10k?

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby snooky147

Wild WC wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:I agree that O'Sullivan doesn't throw matches for financial gain, but that doesn't make it any better than throwing matches for financial gain. Who gets hurt if a player throws a match for financial gain? Bookmakers. Big deal. My heart bleeds for them.

Before you say innocent punters get hurt if a player throws a match for financial gain, then the same applies to punters who lose money on a match where a player throws a match just so he can get a plane home sooner.

That is in fact a good point

sport stars should put their Heart and Soul in to every match they play they not only conning bookmakers but they conning people who paid good money believing in them.


one of the reasons I stopped betting on snooker for a while back was O'Sullivan. When he was in could not care less mode he did me several times for quite a lot (for me anyway) of money. I came to the conclusion that if he wasn't going to try there was no point.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Wildey

Jamie Burnett incident happened before The Barry Hearn era and how The WPBSA Do things today with Anti Corruption units etc

for me its more interesting that Stephen Lee and Joe Jogia was Suspended but Thepchaia Un-Nooh wasent.

so its not a Blanket Rule of Suspicion Betting Pattern=Suspension.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Monique

Wild WC wrote:Jamie Burnett incident happened before The Barry Hearn era and how The WPBSA Do things today with Anti Corruption units etc

for me its more interesting that Stephen Lee and Joe Jogia was Suspended but Thepchaia Un-Nooh wasent.

so its not a Blanket Rule of Suspicion Betting Pattern=Suspension.


Indeed it's not.
Jogia wasn't suspended immediately, he was only after the Unit had examined some of the evidence and found that they had ground enough to suspend him.
Lee wasn't suspended on October 5, as soon as the Unit got to examine the evidence related to the 2010 case, but - probably - a new occurrence of suspicious betting around the same player triggered their decision after the PL match.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:
Wild WC wrote:Jamie Burnett incident happened before The Barry Hearn era and how The WPBSA Do things today with Anti Corruption units etc

for me its more interesting that Stephen Lee and Joe Jogia was Suspended but Thepchaia Un-Nooh wasent.

so its not a Blanket Rule of Suspicion Betting Pattern=Suspension.


Indeed it's not.
Jogia wasn't suspended immediately, he was only after the Unit had examined some of the evidence and found that they had ground enough to suspend him.
Lee wasn't suspended on October 5, as soon as the Unit got to examine the evidence related to the 2010 case, but - probably - a new occurrence of suspicious betting around the same player triggered their decision after the PL match.

exactly

ive seen a lot of talk this week and many think WPBSA Did this on a whim.

it interrupted their agreement with sky it cost Matchroom Sport gate revenue so it was not a decision they took lightly at all as has been suggested in a very naïve way of thinking by some.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Sickpotter

I'm starting to think it's the sports betting offices that need to be shut down. :chin:

Remove that avenue of illicit money and the match fixing would virtually disappear.

To those who've lost money betting on "fixed" matches or matches where a player didn't give it their all.....STOP BETTING ON SNOOKER!!!!



I've been a gambler for most of my life, mostly because of necessity and always on a 1 to 1 basis. By that I mean I never looked to make money from bookies or any other agency that takes bets. Do you really think these groups offer odds that are in your favor? They are trying to take your money, not give you a good return on it and they are profitable. It'd be interesting to see what percentage of bookie users are winners, I doubt it's very high.

If you can't manage not to gamble http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N57SxyxUhTQ , apply a little more logic to your betting. Take a players propensity to put in no effort for certain events and make money from it.

Take ROS for example. You virtually never get good odds to bet with him, he's virtually always the match favorite so what's the payout? 1-1? Why not bet against him when you know he's not inclined to be at a given event or is unlikely to take it seriously? Certainly that's got to offer the best return for your buck no?

I don't know what the answer is but it's bound to create issues having so much sponsorship money coming from betting groups.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Monique

How can anyone need to gamble out of necessity? You have to explain that to me. Because, as you say, those bookies are no charity and if they are still in business it's because they win more than they lose. So if you are short on money, gambling is the last thing you should do because it's as good as putting your money to the bin more often than not even if every sportsperson was trying 100% all the time.
They have information and means no private person has.

Some players are known to be highly inconsistent, for various reasons, so people who bet on them should know what they do and accept the risks without complains. Nobody forces them to bet in the first place. It's that simple.

That doesn't exonerate players, or other persons with inside information, who deliberately "fix" matches to make money. It's dishonest and there is no excuse for it, and ultimately it's also, or even mainly, the ones who bet in good faith who are their victims. IF Lee is guilty he should be punished. Note the IF.

It's never healthy for any sport to depend on just one type of sponsoring. Snooker should know it: what happened with the tobacco ban was a clear instance of it. But as it is for now snooker DOES depend a lot on the bookies sponsoring and it can't afford to lose it.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Sickpotter

I needed to gamble because I was unemployed and my unemployment insurance didn't even cover my rent much less any other normal expenses one typically incurs.

I call it gambling as there was no certainty I'd win but I did tend to pick and choose so that the match was always in my favour and I always bet on myself.

Gambling on yourself is much different than betting on other players matches, you know you'll always be putting in 100% ;-)

Typically I took $20 every day to the pool hall and would play matches for $5, $10 until I doubled up at which point I might move to $20 a match. By the end of the month I had managed to eat, get around and pay my rent.

No doubt about it, being primarily sponsored by betting firms is at some point going to be a big problem for the sport, just like tobacco :sad:

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Sickpotter

One other point about gambling as it pertains to sport and sports betting.

It's very difficult for fans to bet logically rather than emotionally. When you've made a bet on your favorite and lost you've inflicted a double wound. 1st you lost your bet and 2nd your fav player/team got beat.

IMO leave sports betting alone if you're unable to make your bets based on logic or you'll be a very unhappy person.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Smart

Sickpotter wrote:One other point about gambling as it pertains to sport and sports betting.

It's very difficult for fans to bet logically rather than emotionally. When you've made a bet on your favorite and lost you've inflicted a double wound. 1st you lost your bet and 2nd your fav player/team got beat.

IMO leave sports betting alone if you're unable to make your bets based on logic or you'll be a very unhappy person.


clear head, treat it like a business transaction is the best method - I always like to choose bets that are either EVENS (so I get my stake plus 100% back), those are the bets that appeal to me - sort of like a 50/50 shot. I have placed large on outsiders or worse still placed bets when I have come home drunk. Thats a bit of a no-no. <laugh>

clear head, business transaction - works for me <ok>

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Smart

Witz78 wrote:what i often do is put a cover bet on as insurance so that if my favourite player or team loses at least im reimbursed back financially.


I know a lot of peeps do that, but I feel wrong doing it. LIke the advert says you feel dirty bet against your own team. <ok>

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Muppet147

Smart wrote:
Witz78 wrote:what i often do is put a cover bet on as insurance so that if my favourite player or team loses at least im reimbursed back financially.


I know a lot of peeps do that, but I feel wrong doing it. LIke the advert says you feel dirty bet against your own team. <ok>


You should bet against Loserpool. You'd make heaps of money.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Witz78

Smart wrote:
Witz78 wrote:what i often do is put a cover bet on as insurance so that if my favourite player or team loses at least im reimbursed back financially.


I know a lot of peeps do that, but I feel wrong doing it. LIke the advert says you feel dirty bet against your own team. <ok>


when i do it i do it not to win money but to jinx the opposition or opponent so the player / team i want to win.

its just a bonus / insurance policy to cover your dissapointment should your favourite lose, then at least you win some cash to make up for it.

Take the WC for example, i bet on Robbo to beat Ronnie in the QF but there was no way i was cheering on Robbo or annoyed my bet lost rofl

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby vodkadiet

The best guy to bet on/against in sport is David Ferrer. He virtually beats his opponent when he is favourite and virtually always loses when he is underdog.

I have no doubt Jamie Burnett would be down Sauciehall Jobcentre now protesting against The Tories, and shouting 'Devolution' if Rodney Walker hadn't been in charge when he was missing simple blacks by a foot and a half.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby vodkadiet

Jewell wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:The best guy to bet on/against in sport is David Ferrer. He virtually beats his opponent when he is favourite and virtually always loses when he is underdog.

I have no doubt Jamie Burnett would be down Sauciehall Jobcentre now protesting against The Tories, and shouting 'Devolution' if Rodney Walker hadn't been in charge when he was missing simple blacks by a foot and a half.


Ferrer is a gambler's dream, in that he always gives a 100% in every tournament and has a great attitude. The nearest we have in snooker to Ferrer is probably Mark Selby.


Selby though loses to a lot of players he should beat, Ferrer rarely does.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Andre147

Witz78 wrote:
Smart wrote:
Witz78 wrote:what i often do is put a cover bet on as insurance so that if my favourite player or team loses at least im reimbursed back financially.


I know a lot of peeps do that, but I feel wrong doing it. LIke the advert says you feel dirty bet against your own team. <ok>


when i do it i do it not to win money but to jinx the opposition or opponent so the player / team i want to win.

its just a bonus / insurance policy to cover your dissapointment should your favourite lose, then at least you win some cash to make up for it.

Take the WC for example, i bet on Robbo to beat Ronnie in the QF but there was no way i was cheering on Robbo or annoyed my bet lost rofl


Same with me Witz :-D I also had a bet that Robbo would win that match, but obviously I didn't wnat him too.. one of the rare times where I was more than happy to lose to money :evilgrin: <cool> :evilgrin:

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Monique

Hector Nunns on twitter this morning, saying that Lee has filed an appeal and that if handled quickly - as it should - there is still a chance for him to be in Antwerp and of course Chengdou

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Witz78

Im all for innocent until guilty but this is strange.
Normally you would appeal a BAN and be reinstated pending an appeal hearing but this is effectively Lee appealing against the SUSPENSION (which is unfair IMO) as he was always going to contest the case against him if they found him guilty further down the line when they get round to holding a hearing.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:Hector Nunns on twitter this morning, saying that Lee has filed an appeal and that if handled quickly - as it should - there is still a chance for him to be in Antwerp and of course Chengdou

he wont be in Antwerp then.

this is britain nothing is handled quickly everything gets tied up in endless red tape.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Casey

Trumpster wrote:Strange coincidence it was a match against Higgins as well eh............


I believe they are now also concerned with pattern's on his other PL matches as well.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Wildey

Casey wrote:
Trumpster wrote:Strange coincidence it was a match against Higgins as well eh............


I believe they are now also concerned with pattern's on his other PL matches as well.

if thats the case ill be very surprise if his appeal will be successfull so quick to play in the International Championship never mind Antwerp.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby gallantrabbit

Sometimes you can't believe the naivety of these people...Lee must have know that the WSa had their big eyes on him. So even if he was innocent, which looks dodgy, why would he not try his heart out on every shot. Beggars belief. Especially for a guy who is very much on the up and winning decent prize money right now.
I know I'm a broken kin record on the subject, but I personally wouldn't give this commission any credibility until it bans Burnett who was banged to absolute rights guilty. I don't care if Hearn wasn't in charge then. We all have youtube...
I also don't care about the guilty till proven innocent bit. Even if Lee is innocent he deserves a ban for pure stupidity, as did Higgins.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Wildey

gallantrabbit wrote:Sometimes you can't believe the naivety of these people...Lee must have know that the WSa had their big eyes on him. So even if he was innocent, which looks dodgy, why would he not try his heart out on every shot. Beggars belief. Especially for a guy who is very much on the up and winning decent prize money right now.
I know I'm a broken kin record on the subject, but I personally wouldn't give this commission any credibility until it bans Burnett who was banged to absolute rights guilty. I don't care if Hearn wasn't in charge then. We all have youtube...
I also don't care about the guilty till proven innocent bit. Even if Lee is innocent he deserves a ban for pure stupidity, as did Higgins.

whatever went on with Burnett and Maguire Case as The Higgins Fiasco has meant Today in 2012 World Snooker has at long last stopped bucking about and Get down to it.

Barry Hearn has stated as has Jason Ferguson things are Going to Change and get Much tougher which it has. they spend Time trying to educate young players as older players what's Right and proper regarding Betting/Acceptable Behaviour following the Higgins case.

Re: Stephen Lee Suspended From World Snooker Tour !!

Postby Casey

Wild WC wrote:Stephen Lee's Suspension Continues as the Appeal was Dismissed by Robert Englehart QC (Sport Resolutions UK)

http://www.worldsnooker.com/page/NewsAr ... 63,00.html


Interesting. This of course does not prove his guilt, but it would suggest that there will be a full hearing on the matter. I would be surprised if it was resolved prior to around February time.

Can he still enter PTC's as an armature?