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Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Noel

wildJONESEYE wrote: noal the police has to put up the evidence as they see it for the court they cant make things up Douglass investigated the issue and put forward the case to the Court or tribuneral to pass Judgement.


The investigation wasn't done by the police at all.
It was done by David Douglas, the hired disciplinarian and board member of the WPBSA.
It was an in-house job wild.
The findings the WPBSA wanted to put forward were. Nothing else.
The scandelous part is that the serious charges against Higgins and Mooney
were never put forward for "independent" scrutiny at all.
It was all swept under the carpet. The outcome they wanted was assured.

Image
David Douglas


=o(

Noel

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Casey

Noel wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote: noal the police has to put up the evidence as they see it for the court they cant make things up Douglass investigated the issue and put forward the case to the Court or tribuneral to pass Judgement.


The investigation wasn't done by the police at all.
It was done by David Douglas, the hired disciplinarian and board member of the WPBSA.
It was an in-house job wild.
The findings the WPBSA wanted to put forward were. Nothing else.
The scandelous part is that the serious charges against Higgins and Mooney
were never put forward for "independent" scrutiny at all.
It was all swept under the carpet. The outcome they wanted was assured.

Image
David Douglas


=o(

Noel


Noel remember Douglas saw the unedited tapes! I think its very unfair to suggest that the WPBSA removed the frame fixing charge for any other reason than they thought he was innocent.
Also I have a feeling Holt could regret his remark on facebook....

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby GJ

Holt isnt the most intelligent player about ...

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Casey

StalinESQ wrote:Holt :D

DJ will be rightly shunned. <ok>


I searched for him and I was wrong. It was only tongue and cheek.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Wildey

Noel wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote: noal the police has to put up the evidence as they see it for the court they cant make things up Douglass investigated the issue and put forward the case to the Court or tribuneral to pass Judgement.


The investigation wasn't done by the police at all.
It was done by David Douglas, the hired disciplinarian and board member of the WPBSA.
It was an in-house job wild.
The findings the WPBSA wanted to put forward were. Nothing else.
The scandelous part is that the serious charges against Higgins and Mooney
were never put forward for "independent" scrutiny at all.
It was all swept under the carpet. The outcome they wanted was assured.

Image
David Douglas


=o(

Noel


See Guys John Higgins can never get away from this when this sort of tripe is said.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Noel

GJtheaussiestud wrote:Holt isnt the most intelligent player about ...


No but my guess is you'd be shocked at how many people involved in snooker know ALL about what's been
going on for years and years and is still going on. The reason I am furious about these developments is that
snooker had a chance. This Higgins/Mooney affair could have been the watershed moment when our sport
really stood up for itself, proudly and said... we will do whatever it takes to secure the honour and trust of
everyone involved, especially the betting sponsors who will determine the future success of snooker at least
in the UK. Whoever said that "No player is bigger than snooker" should eat those words, because that's what this
abortion of justice says. We need our "meal ticket" show boy out there playing regardless.
I think the response will be anything but what they hope for.

The plot thickens.


=o(

Noel

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Casey

Noel wrote:
GJtheaussiestud wrote:Holt isnt the most intelligent player about ...


No but my guess is you'd be shocked at how many people involved in snooker know ALL about what's been
going on for years and years and is still going on. The reason I am furious about these developments is that
snooker had a chance. This Higgins/Mooney affair could have been the watershed moment when our sport
really stood up for itself, proudly and said... we will do whatever it takes to secure the honour and trust of
everyone involved, especially the betting sponsors who will determine the future success of snooker at least
in the UK. Whoever said that "No player is bigger than snooker" should eat those words, because that's what this
abortion of justice says. We need our "meal ticket" show boy out there playing regardless.
I think the response will be anything but what they hope for.

The plot thickens.


=o(

Noel


So use John John as a benchmark and forget about the truth?

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Wildey

case is spot on

it might have been good to throw the book at him but only if its the truth you cant sacrifice him if the evidence didn't add up which ive never thought it adds up but they know more than us.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Monique

There is only ONE person knowing the full truth, and that's John Higgins himself. Whatever that truth is, he will have to live with it.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby GJ

kostasmad wrote:YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!! GREAT NEWS!!!!! WELCOME BACK JOHN!!!!! :D :D :D


is that really you

werent you calling him lots of rude names yesterday

:roll: ;)

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Noel

case_master wrote: So use John John as a benchmark and forget about the truth?


"Truth" is irrelevant really. *
We are observing an orchestrated "outcome"
NoTW created an "outcome" be it true or not.
John and Pat's Story created an "outcome" too.
So did the WPBSA in determining which charges to put forward to the Tribunal.
They got the desired "outcome"

All that leads to what final "outcome"?
For the players? For us? For the Sponsors? For Snooker ?


=o|

Noel


*Truth has no part in "the end justifies the means" propositions.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Casey

Monique wrote:There is only ONE person knowing the full truth, and that's John Higgins himself. Whatever that truth is, he will have to live with it.


True in many ways. Of course there is John's family who have been effected, the press couldn't even leave them be at his sons Holy communion.

I also think he will be booed at many of the UK events.

I wonder what the likes of Williams, Ronnie and Hendry make of it? :chin:

John and Stephen aren't the best of friends anyway but he wouldn't comment on it I'm sure.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:There is only ONE person knowing the full truth, and that's John Higgins himself. Whatever that truth is, he will have to live with it.


the truth is the verdict .

now we move on with it we can not for the good of snooker start to question decision its made and its the end of it as far as im concerned john is back ill hugg the guy give him the respect he deserves as 3 times WC.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Tubberlad

Noel: if Ronnie were there today rather than John Higgins? Would you be screaming cover up? Maybe thats lowering the tone, but I'm VERY curious.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby GJ

thetubberlad wrote:Noel: if Ronnie were there today rather than John Higgins? Would you be screaming cover up? Maybe thats lowering the tone, but I'm VERY curious.


good point

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Noel

wildJONESEYE wrote:
Monique wrote:the truth is the verdict .
now we move on with it we can not for the good of snooker start to question decision its made and its the end of it as far as im concerned john is back ill hugg the guy give him the respect he deserves as 3 times WC.



Image

Good boy! Look... Sleep Walking Rolling!



=o\

Noel

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Noel

thetubberlad wrote:Noel: if Ronnie were there today rather than John Higgins? Would you be screaming cover up? Maybe thats lowering the tone, but I'm VERY curious.


Happy to give you my thoughts mate.
It's a fair question too ...
My first comment has to be that I suspect Ronnie has enough money and brains not to be tempted into such a Pandora's Box.
Frankly, I was surprised that Higgins didn't. So in a real world way it's quite a leap of imagination to swap them out in this snooker opera. If I really did believe that Ronnie was a match-fixer and that truth was being tossed aside in favour of falsly preserving his professional integrity for WPBSA gain I would feel even worse than for John. The reason being that O'Sullivan is
snooker's greatest performer and human asset [ thank God Hearn is replaceable ]. And if WPBSA would engineer this public relations fiasco to save Higgins I can't even begin to imagine to what lengths they'd go to to save Ronnie's ass. And my feelings about him and the cheap whitewashing by WPBSA and the lost opportunity to raise up snooker's image would be even more disheartened. It would be a greater loss in other words but nevertheless, however painful, a necessary one.



=o|

Noel


Hope that answers your question Tubs.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

thetubberlad wrote:Noel: if Ronnie were there today rather than John Higgins? Would you be screaming cover up? Maybe thats lowering the tone, but I'm VERY curious.


In fairness you could ask that question to the people praising Higgins as well.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Wildey

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:
thetubberlad wrote:Noel: if Ronnie were there today rather than John Higgins? Would you be screaming cover up? Maybe thats lowering the tone, but I'm VERY curious.


In fairness you could ask that question to the people praising Higgins as well.

ill answer that for you.

it doesent matter who the player is from my point of view.

all that matters is truth now the tribuneral has issued the only truth any of us will ever get therefore we move on and forget it ASAP.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Tubberlad

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:
thetubberlad wrote:Noel: if Ronnie were there today rather than John Higgins? Would you be screaming cover up? Maybe thats lowering the tone, but I'm VERY curious.


In fairness you could ask that question to the people praising Higgins as well.


Of course you could, and I agree wholeheartedly with you.

Noel: Class reply <ok>even if I don't agree with your cover up theory. Or that O'Sullivan is snooker's greatest human asset :redneck:

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Wildey

Noel wrote:
thetubberlad wrote:Noel: if Ronnie were there today rather than John Higgins? Would you be screaming cover up? Maybe thats lowering the tone, but I'm VERY curious.


Happy to give you my thoughts mate.
It's a fair question too ...
My first comment has to be that I suspect Ronnie has enough money and brains not to be tempted into such a Pandora's Box.
Frankly, I was surprised that Higgins didn't. So in a real world way it's quite a leap of imagination to swap them out in this snooker opera. If I really did believe that Ronnie was a match-fixer and that truth was being tossed aside in favour of falsly preserving his professional integrity for WPBSA gain I would feel even worse than for John. The reason being that O'Sullivan is
snooker's greatest performer and human asset [ thank God Hearn is replaceable ]. And if WPBSA would engineer this public relations fiasco to save Higgins I can't even begin to imagine to what lengths they'd go to to save Ronnie's ass. And my feelings about him and the cheap whitewashing by WPBSA and the lost opportunity to raise up snooker's image would be even more disheartened. It would be a greater loss in other words but nevertheless, however painful, a necessary one.



=o|

Noel


Hope that answers your question Tubs.


where is the evidence to say the decision was a fiasco ?

they judged it on evidence. your judgement comes on the back of what exactly ? a edited tape the NOTW Wanted you to see.

John has NEVER Denied saying what you heard on Tape and i personally believe Pat Mooney had force fed Higgins with a cover story they had maffia connections to justify his words in that meeting.

i think what happened today backs up that when the QC Was not convinced at all with how genuine Mooney was.

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby GrumpyMrDavros

wildJONESEYE wrote:where is the evidence to say the decision was a fiasco ?

they judged it on evidence. your judgement comes on the back of what exactly ? a edited tape the NOTW Wanted you to see.



I think those of us who think the investigation has been a fiasco - And I'm certainly in that camp - are concerned because the investigation team are refusing to answer any questions as to how they have come to their decision

Why did they drop the serious charge of match fixing ?

If Mooney and Higgins were facing the exact same charge then why does Mooney get a life ban whilst Higgins gets a slap on the wrist ?

If Sports Resolutions nothing to hide why aren't they asking the above questions ?

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Wildey

as ive explained there is a strong indication that higgins was taken on a ride by mooney and if you listen carefully to the statement by john higgins you would have noticed him refering to mooney http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 973869.stm

"i was nieve in trusting people that was working for the benefit of snooker and myself "

who do you think he was talking about there ??

Re: John Higgins to Return to Circuit

Postby Noel

wildJONESEYE wrote:where is the evidence to say the decision was a fiasco ?


wild... I've made a lot of posts expressing my views on this disturbing episode because I think it's really important.
I've tried to explain why I think this whole issue is important to snooker in a larger sense and not just to John personally.
Check through them if you want as they cover a lot of questions from members and comments on their concerns.
My issues from Day 1 about this tragic situation have remained unchanged over all these months because all the evidence that this has been a fiasco is there for us to see if we're willing to open our eyes and try to grasp the larger picture, the picture that like a big puzzle has a lot of still missing pieces to complete our recognition of what actually has happened and our understanding of why. The NoTW sting didn't just pop into Mazher Mahmood's mind one day watching a snooker match.
He works off tips like "Sarah Ferguson is so desperate for cash she'll sell exual favours" and his team springs into action. Maybe he thought he had a vulnerable pair in Mooney and Higgins because their WSS venture was failing. So, who told him that? Why did this happen almost immediately after Hearn is acclaimed by the player/members? Who was the puppet-master and what was their ulterior motive? Did they achieve their ends or is there more in the plan? You know, those kind of unanswered questions. I've suggested lots of reasons just even today why this is a fiasco... I've called the process by which today's verdicts and punishments were arrived at, a "Kangaroo Court" I've slammed the motives of the principals involved as being a "whitewash". I don't want to go over that again... but my reasons for saying so are offered in those posts.
I've suggested that it isn't about "truth" at all.... as Monique suggested, only Higgins and Mooney know what's "true" for sure.
I've maintained for 4 months that this whole thing is about "appearances" and still believe that. If WPBSA wanted it to look like they did the "right thing" with "impartiality" with "fairness" and minimize the damage, they failed big time. I know that the players pretty much voted Hearn in on a one-promise platform... more tournaments. None if any bargained on this rubbish. And it's probably got many on edge for various reasons. How the fans react is another worry... my guess ... not very well, but we'll have to see. Will the betting people be reassured it's clean business now? I wouldn't bet on that. So the "fiasco" part wild is not just what happened, but unanswered questions as to why, and wtf will happen next?
It's definitely not a closed book, turn the light out and sleep soundly thing at all mate.


=o|

Noel