by HappyCamper » 10 Oct 2023 Read
https://wst.tv/world-snooker-tour-wst-statement/The WST is disappointed to hear that a number of players under contract with the WST have elected not to play in a WST event, preferring instead to play in a non-sanctioned event in Macau thereby being in breach of the terms of their player contract.
Following recent speculation and the publication of an article containing many inaccuracies, the WST would like to make its position clear regarding non-sanctioned exhibition events.
It is important to stress that WST players do not have to enter all WST events, they have the freedom to choose, which has always been the case. This level of freedom is unlike any other sport where players have voluntarily opted to enter contracts with their club/organisation. However, with this level of freedom we do make clear in our player contracts that a player must not do anything that is detrimental to the WST or a WST event. It is without doubt that playing in a non-sanctioned event instead of playing in a WST event is detrimental to that WST event.
Given the exhibition event in Macau directly clashes with the final stages of the Northern Ireland Open, a player’s participation in it would constitute a breach of their player contract given that to compete in Macau, the player would not be available to compete in the Northern Ireland Open thereby devaluing the Northern Ireland Open.
Unfortunately, despite engaging in email correspondence and phone calls intended to best explain our position and enable the players to make informed decisions, five players (four of whom are ranked within the top 16) have decided not to compete in the Northern Ireland Open and have withdrawn their entry in order to play in Macau. These players are Mark Selby, John Higgins, Luca Brecel, Thepchaiya Un-Nooh and Ali Carter, none of whom will therefore appear in Belfast.
As a result, if these players decide to participate in the exhibition in Macau, the WST will have no alternative but to refer them to the WPBSA Disciplinary Committee for breach of their player contract, and this has been clearly communicated to the players.
Taking necessary action in these circumstances protects WST events on behalf of the fans who attend and follow our events through television and social media, our sponsors/commercial partners, broadcasters/streaming partners and most importantly, the other 125 members of the WST.
WST has always been and will continue to be supportive of a player’s earning opportunities outside of the WST provided that these do not distract, devalue, or conflict with the WST or a WST event. Players and promoters have ample opportunity to play in and host non-sanctioned events during gaps in the WST calendar. The WST does not therefore support any clash with a WST event and would consider a player’s decision to prioritise a non-sanctioned event clashing with a WST event to be a breach of their player contract, as this would undoubtedly result in sizeable financial implications to the WST including loss of broadcast income, and sponsorship and ticket sales revenue let alone losses due to any reputational damage.
We reiterate that we are running the sport for all 130 players on the WST, and this will always be our guiding principle.
officially on the naughty step.
-
HappyCamper
- Posts: 18817
- Joined: 05 November 2018
- Location: Edinburgh
- Snooker Idol: Graeme Dott
- Walk-On: Banana Chips by Shonen Knife
by SnookerFan » 10 Oct 2023 Read
Is there a lot of money in this Macau tournament?
-
SnookerFan
- Posts: 151143
- Joined: 13 December 2009
- Snooker Idol: Michaela Tabb
- Walk-On: Entry Of The Gladiators
-
by D4P » 10 Oct 2023 Read
I'm not going to defend WST, but I will say that it's kind of lame for the Macau people to schedule their event in conflict with a WST event, knowing that any players who choose to play in Macau will be subject to WST backlash...
-
D4P
- Posts: 4781
- Joined: 26 December 2018
by Iranu » 10 Oct 2023 Read
“The WST does not therefore support any clash with a WST event and would consider a player’s decision to prioritise a non-sanctioned event clashing with a WST event to be a breach of their player contract, as this would undoubtedly result in sizeable financial implications to the WST including loss of broadcast income, and sponsorship and ticket sales revenue let alone losses due to any reputational damage.”
I’m not entirely how how these consequences would be any different than if the players just chose not to enter, which players do all the time.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41519
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by Andre147 » 10 Oct 2023 Read
Players have every right to want to earn more money, but you can't just play in an event that's happening at the same time as a WST sanctioned one, even if that player didn't enter the WST event in the first place.
That's like me not wanting to go for my workplace and going to work somewhere else instead and not expecting the consequences of it.
-
Andre147
- Posts: 41815
- Joined: 09 October 2011
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie and Luca
- Highest Break: 27
- Walk-On: Spies - Coldplay
by HappyCamper » 10 Oct 2023 Read
Andre147 wrote:Players have every right to want to earn more money, but you can't just play in an event that's happening at the same time as a WST sanctioned one, even if that player didn't enter the WST event in the first place.
That's like me not wanting to go for my workplace and going to work somewhere else instead and not expecting the consequences of it.
not refereeing in macau then?
-
HappyCamper
- Posts: 18817
- Joined: 05 November 2018
- Location: Edinburgh
- Snooker Idol: Graeme Dott
- Walk-On: Banana Chips by Shonen Knife
by Andre147 » 10 Oct 2023 Read
HappyCamper wrote:Andre147 wrote:Players have every right to want to earn more money, but you can't just play in an event that's happening at the same time as a WST sanctioned one, even if that player didn't enter the WST event in the first place.
That's like me not wanting to go for my workplace and going to work somewhere else instead and not expecting the consequences of it.
not refereeing in macau then?
Nope.
I was thinking though... Ronnie withdrew from the British Open to play play in a exhibition event with Jimmy White in Macau, and WST didn't say anything...
-
Andre147
- Posts: 41815
- Joined: 09 October 2011
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie and Luca
- Highest Break: 27
- Walk-On: Spies - Coldplay
by D4P » 10 Oct 2023 Read
Andre147 wrote:HappyCamper wrote:Andre147 wrote:Players have every right to want to earn more money, but you can't just play in an event that's happening at the same time as a WST sanctioned one, even if that player didn't enter the WST event in the first place.
That's like me not wanting to go for my workplace and going to work somewhere else instead and not expecting the consequences of it.
not refereeing in macau then?
Nope.
I was thinking though... Ronnie withdrew from the British Open to play play in a exhibition event with Jimmy White in Macau, and WST didn't say anything...
I read something the other day about how WST stopped sending Ronnie threatening letters once he hired himself a fancy attorney...
-
D4P
- Posts: 4781
- Joined: 26 December 2018
by gninnur karona » 10 Oct 2023 Read
"Players and promoters have ample opportunity to play in and host non-sanctioned events during gaps in the WST calendar."
From 1st September to 17th March, apart from the period 23rd December to 1st January, there are no gaps in the calendar of greater than 2 days.
The Northern Ireland Open from 2016-17 to 2020-21 occupied 7 days of the calendar, 2021-22 and 2022-23 14 playing days, with this season's event according to the current published calendar scheduled to take 12 playing days.
By artificially bloating the calendar (no corresponding increase in prize money) WST lose the moral high ground.
To put it simply if the Northern Ireland Open occupied only the seven days of the calendar that it actually needs, ample time would be available for the event in Macau to take place without overlap.
-
gninnur karona
- Posts: 602
- Joined: 05 June 2021
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby + T Un-Nooh
- Highest Break: 22
- Walk-On: Muse - Apocalypse Please
by chengdufan » 11 Oct 2023 Read
Iranu wrote:“The WST does not therefore support any clash with a WST event and would consider a player’s decision to prioritise a non-sanctioned event clashing with a WST event to be a breach of their player contract, as this would undoubtedly result in sizeable financial implications to the WST including loss of broadcast income, and sponsorship and ticket sales revenue let alone losses due to any reputational damage.”
I’m not entirely how how these consequences would be any different than if the players just chose not to enter, which players do all the time.
Presumably some sponsors/broadcasters would need to choose which event to support/cover.
Ticket sales is a bit of a stretch. I can't imagine many spectators going to Macau instead of Northern Ireland. I suppose it's possible though.
-
chengdufan
- Posts: 11525
- Joined: 08 July 2016
- Location: Chongqing
- Snooker Idol: Xiao Guodong
- Highest Break: 25
- Walk-On: Europe - The Final Countdown
by lhpirnie » 11 Oct 2023 Read
chengdufan wrote:Iranu wrote:“The WST does not therefore support any clash with a WST event and would consider a player’s decision to prioritise a non-sanctioned event clashing with a WST event to be a breach of their player contract, as this would undoubtedly result in sizeable financial implications to the WST including loss of broadcast income, and sponsorship and ticket sales revenue let alone losses due to any reputational damage.”
I’m not entirely how how these consequences would be any different than if the players just chose not to enter, which players do all the time.
Presumably some sponsors/broadcasters would need to choose which event to support/cover.
Ticket sales is a bit of a stretch. I can't imagine many spectators going to Macau instead of Northern Ireland. I suppose it's possible though.
I will be in Macau for the December event. But yes, it's not as if many will be weighing up which one to go to.
-
lhpirnie
- Posts: 2391
- Joined: 06 April 2019
- Location: London, UK
- Highest Break: 132
-
by McManusFan » 11 Oct 2023 Read
This seems a little heavy handed. I can't see these five facing any serious consequences. I wonder if it's more of a warning shot for future events.
-
McManusFan
- Posts: 7967
- Joined: 03 October 2018
- Snooker Idol: Alan McManus
- Highest Break: 8
by SnookerFan » 11 Oct 2023 Read
McManusFan wrote:This seems a little heavy handed. I can't see these five facing any serious consequences. I wonder if it's more of a warning shot for future events.
It wouldn't surprise me with WST. But then not a lot would.
They're not known for logical judgements or actions.
-
SnookerFan
- Posts: 151143
- Joined: 13 December 2009
- Snooker Idol: Michaela Tabb
- Walk-On: Entry Of The Gladiators
-
by snoopy2608 » 11 Oct 2023 Read
their strategy in dealing with this is interesting - the Macau event will now get far more attention than it previously would have done
-
snoopy2608
- Posts: 140
- Joined: 03 May 2019
by SteveJJ » 11 Oct 2023 Read
chengdufan wrote:Iranu wrote:“The WST does not therefore support any clash with a WST event and would consider a player’s decision to prioritise a non-sanctioned event clashing with a WST event to be a breach of their player contract, as this would undoubtedly result in sizeable financial implications to the WST including loss of broadcast income, and sponsorship and ticket sales revenue let alone losses due to any reputational damage.”
I’m not entirely how how these consequences would be any different than if the players just chose not to enter, which players do all the time.
Presumably some sponsors/broadcasters would need to choose which event to support/cover.
Ticket sales is a bit of a stretch. I can't imagine many spectators going to Macau instead of Northern Ireland. I suppose it's possible though.
Don't they mean that without some of the top players, NI Open ticket sales may suffer as opposed to if these players did attend?
-
SteveJJ
- Posts: 2770
- Joined: 05 June 2012
- Highest Break: 50
by SteveJJ » 11 Oct 2023 Read
I know it is very rare that WST do a lot that can be applauded but I can't see what other course of action they can take.
If players breach their contracts then they should expect to face the consequences.
I see Mark Allen, said he doesn't read the contract. He just signs it because otherwise he wouldn't be on tour. I suspect others are the same. Or they think that the potential earnings will cover any fine
-
SteveJJ
- Posts: 2770
- Joined: 05 June 2012
- Highest Break: 50
by carayip » 11 Oct 2023 Read
snoopy2608 wrote:their strategy in dealing with this is interesting - the Macau event will now get far more attention than it previously would have done
The Macau event doesn’t really need more attention. It’s more a promotion of the casino than a real snooker event. Casino of course has plenty of money and really doesn’t care about ticket sales or broadcast rights. They give away free tickets to their gamblers all the time as a promotion package.
-
carayip
- Posts: 1145
- Joined: 07 September 2018
by Prop » 11 Oct 2023 Read
I don’t see what the fuss is all about. It’s only a hugely lucrative, unsanctioned snooker event held in the gambling capital of the world less than a season after the sport’s biggest gambling scandal, which most of the top players are choosing over an official WST ranking event, rendering said WST event devoid of star attraction and doomed to leave a black mark on WST’s credibility as snooker’s answer to commercial sustainability in the years ahead
-
Prop
- Posts: 26044
- Joined: 16 December 2015
- Highest Break: 65
- Walk-On: Papua New Guinea - FSOL
by carayip » 11 Oct 2023 Read
Iranu wrote:“The WST does not therefore support any clash with a WST event and would consider a player’s decision to prioritise a non-sanctioned event clashing with a WST event to be a breach of their player contract, as this would undoubtedly result in sizeable financial implications to the WST including loss of broadcast income, and sponsorship and ticket sales revenue let alone losses due to any reputational damage.”
I’m not entirely how how these consequences would be any different than if the players just chose not to enter, which players do all the time.
WST don’t have problem with players not entering or withdrawing their events for personal reasons. But these guys are doing it for commercial reasons and who WST deems as rival promoter.
-
carayip
- Posts: 1145
- Joined: 07 September 2018
by Iranu » 11 Oct 2023 Read
carayip wrote:Iranu wrote:“The WST does not therefore support any clash with a WST event and would consider a player’s decision to prioritise a non-sanctioned event clashing with a WST event to be a breach of their player contract, as this would undoubtedly result in sizeable financial implications to the WST including loss of broadcast income, and sponsorship and ticket sales revenue let alone losses due to any reputational damage.”
I’m not entirely how how these consequences would be any different than if the players just chose not to enter, which players do all the time.
WST don’t have problem with players not entering or withdrawing their events for personal reasons. But these guys are doing it for commercial reasons and who WST deems as rival promoter.
I get that, but what I mean is surely WST would have to demonstrate that this has had more of a financial implication to their tour than if all the players had pulled out and done their own personal exhibitions during the week (which presumably happens relatively often). If it was a month long tour it would be inarguably a rival. A one-off exhibition not so much.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41519
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by carayip » 11 Oct 2023 Read
D4P wrote:I'm not going to defend WST, but I will say that it's kind of lame for the Macau people to schedule their event in conflict with a WST event, knowing that any players who choose to play in Macau will be subject to WST backlash...
I don’t think it’s lame. The Macau (and Shanghai) people clearly scheduled these events, right before or after a Chinese WST event for the convenience of the players. It also kind of motivated the players to play the Chinese events because even they didn’t do well in the official events, they could still make some quick money back after.
-
carayip
- Posts: 1145
- Joined: 07 September 2018
by HappyCamper » 11 Oct 2023 Read
D4P wrote:I'm not going to defend WST, but I will say that it's kind of lame for the Macau people to schedule their event in conflict with a WST event, knowing that any players who choose to play in Macau will be subject to WST backlash...
do we even know that the macau event wasn't scheduled first?
wst are generally quite late to finalise the season schedule.
-
HappyCamper
- Posts: 18817
- Joined: 05 November 2018
- Location: Edinburgh
- Snooker Idol: Graeme Dott
- Walk-On: Banana Chips by Shonen Knife
by Prop » 11 Oct 2023 Read
The Saudis will be watching this unfold with considerable enthusiasm.
-
Prop
- Posts: 26044
- Joined: 16 December 2015
- Highest Break: 65
- Walk-On: Papua New Guinea - FSOL
by Prop » 11 Oct 2023 Read
Home Nations tournaments are bucking twiddle anyway. This might all be a bit of a mess, but it might also serve as a bit of a wake up call to WST. It’s not the monopoly they think it is. Competition is a good thing.
-
Prop
- Posts: 26044
- Joined: 16 December 2015
- Highest Break: 65
- Walk-On: Papua New Guinea - FSOL
by RunningSide » 11 Oct 2023 Read
Prop wrote:I don’t see what the fuss is all about. It’s only a hugely lucrative, unsanctioned snooker event held in the gambling capital of the world less than a season after the sport’s biggest gambling scandal, which most of the top players are choosing over an official WST ranking event, rendering said WST event devoid of star attraction and doomed to leave a black mark on WST’s credibility as snooker’s answer to commercial sustainability in the years ahead
Good post
-
RunningSide
- Posts: 2093
- Joined: 19 September 2021
- Location: Sheffield
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie Mark Williams
- Highest Break: 79
- Walk-On: Anything by Cure.
by carayip » 11 Oct 2023 Read
Iranu wrote:carayip wrote:Iranu wrote:“The WST does not therefore support any clash with a WST event and would consider a player’s decision to prioritise a non-sanctioned event clashing with a WST event to be a breach of their player contract, as this would undoubtedly result in sizeable financial implications to the WST including loss of broadcast income, and sponsorship and ticket sales revenue let alone losses due to any reputational damage.”
I’m not entirely how how these consequences would be any different than if the players just chose not to enter, which players do all the time.
WST don’t have problem with players not entering or withdrawing their events for personal reasons. But these guys are doing it for commercial reasons and who WST deems as rival promoter.
I get that, but what I mean is surely WST would have to demonstrate that this has had more of a financial implication to their tour than if all the players had pulled out and done their own personal exhibitions during the week (which presumably happens relatively often). If it was a month long tour it would be inarguably a rival. A one-off exhibition not so much.
Maybe they fear if they don’t warn or stop them now, it will have a snowball effect that the top players eventually join forces with these rival promoters to form even bigger events? Then one man exhibition becomes 5 men that can also become 10 men. One off event can eventually become a series of events.
-
carayip
- Posts: 1145
- Joined: 07 September 2018
by carayip » 11 Oct 2023 Read
SnookerFan wrote:Is there a lot of money in this Macau tournament?
It’s part of a casino promotion campaign. I don’t think they lack money to give players lucrative appearance fees.
-
carayip
- Posts: 1145
- Joined: 07 September 2018
by Iranu » 11 Oct 2023 Read
carayip wrote:Maybe they fear if they don’t warn or stop them now, it will have a snowball effect that the top players eventually join forces with these rival promoters to form even bigger events? Then one man exhibition becomes 5 men that can also become 10 men. One off event can eventually become a series of events.
If it goes to court, I’m not sure “we’re worried this might happen” will cut it as far as evidence goes. Unless WST have Minority Report technology.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41519
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by Iranu » 11 Oct 2023 Read
Is that bit about having more freedom than in any other aport actually true?
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41519
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by SteveJJ » 11 Oct 2023 Read
Iranu wrote:carayip wrote:Maybe they fear if they don’t warn or stop them now, it will have a snowball effect that the top players eventually join forces with these rival promoters to form even bigger events? Then one man exhibition becomes 5 men that can also become 10 men. One off event can eventually become a series of events.
If it goes to court, I’m not sure “we’re worried this might happen” will cut it as far as evidence goes. Unless WST have Minority Report technology.
If it goes to court, I'd assume it would be more on the breach of player contract as the cast iron charge with them having to prove the other bits to strengthen their case
-
SteveJJ
- Posts: 2770
- Joined: 05 June 2012
- Highest Break: 50