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Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Dannyboy

He had an interview with Sky on the second anniversary of the death of George Floyd.

Got to say it’s quite disappointing to hear what he said. but I do find it strange and disappointing that he’s the only black player on tour - there should be more. And there’s not been another player in the last 25 years (at least?)

He feels WST haven’t done enough to promote the sport to the black communities and not promoting him to these communities. He said that they will give a wildcard to Australians, Americans, Chinese etc but not to a black player.

Jason Ferguson responded saying that this was an equal opportunities sport and it’s a sport for all. They were successful in getting the sport into the African games as an example. From what I heard, he seems to think Rory has some sour grapes that he’s not on the tour any more - if he wasn’t such a negative player, he’d be more popular I’m sure.

Personally, I think he has a minor point (and the argument that having 4 women on tour who frankly aren’t going to be good enough next season is a good argument for it). I think the financials aren’t going to help - having the £1000 Q School is going to be prohibitive for many. But there are probably at least a dozen nationalities represented on the tour now.

Sky are running this interview - what have they done to promote the sport? They haven’t shown a tournament for at least 5 years?

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby mick745

If you win a qualifying tournament you get on tour. Seems like equal opportunities to me.

I am not really in favour of positive discrimination as that would mean someone else (who may be better) misses out. I feel the same about Hendry etc getting invites not based on merit.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby The_Abbott

Rory not exactly a positive role model is he!

I get his point I mean but you have to have success. I am sure the fact we have so many Belgians on tour/Q-School is because Luca has won stuff. If Luca was scrapping at the lower reaches of the 128 I doubt it would have made other potential players to pick up a cue.

It would be great for a Frenchman or Austrian to qualify but doesn't mean we will suddenly get more from that country.

I am sure they have had the African winner on tour before but never turned up for events. So the opportunity has been there. Maybe they do need to promote the game more but that doesn't mean Rory should get a Jimmy card just so they can promote him.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Dannyboy

For what it’s worth, I agree to continental champions, world amateur champion, Womens world champion and world u21 champion gets a card - not anyone else. There shouldn’t be wildcards for historical performance or fame.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby McManusFan

The_Abbott wrote:Rory not exactly a positive role model is he!

I get his point I mean but you have to have success. I am sure the fact we have so many Belgians on tour/Q-School is because Luca has won stuff. If Luca was scrapping at the lower reaches of the 128 I doubt it would have made other potential players to pick up a cue.

It would be great for a Frenchman or Austrian to qualify but doesn't mean we will suddenly get more from that country.

I am sure they have had the African winner on tour before but never turned up for events. So the opportunity has been there. Maybe they do need to promote the game more but that doesn't mean Rory should get a Jimmy card just so they can promote him.


I don't think it's as simple as that. Neil Robertson is one of the top players, and the tour is hardly awash with Aussies is it?

This whole situation can only really be improved with investment in the amateur game.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby SnookerArcher

Simply too most people just aren't good enough regardless of funding, if it were that simple then Elon Musk etc could dominate easily or pay for a friend etc to, black sportspeople have dominated many sports like no other in modern history & often came from poverty e.g. NBA is full of such stories. Yes they became rich later but they had to have the talent in the first place to get the opportunity, granted snooker costs some money to be serious about, equipment and clothing for example & access to facilities.

From a diversity perspective yes I would like the game to be far less British (Primarily English) dominated and to have women breaking in, admittedly for eye candy too but if the Brits are still too good that's how it is, as much as I find 'Team USA' annoying I would like to see a US player or so on the tour so it feels more a 'global sport' but they simply aren't good enough so far and/or the interest isn't good enough to push them to that level.

Some solace though, the 'UK' championship has not been won by a UK citizen since Ronnie's last title in 2018! Twice by chinese in those 4yrs so non caucasians (Fortuitously too Ronnie won the world title in those seasons). No not the crucible but it is a big stepping stone and it's not easy to win with how many matches you need to win, 7 I last checked.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby SnookerArcher

McManusFan wrote:
The_Abbott wrote:Rory not exactly a positive role model is he!

I get his point I mean but you have to have success. I am sure the fact we have so many Belgians on tour/Q-School is because Luca has won stuff. If Luca was scrapping at the lower reaches of the 128 I doubt it would have made other potential players to pick up a cue.

It would be great for a Frenchman or Austrian to qualify but doesn't mean we will suddenly get more from that country.

I am sure they have had the African winner on tour before but never turned up for events. So the opportunity has been there. Maybe they do need to promote the game more but that doesn't mean Rory should get a Jimmy card just so they can promote him.


I don't think it's as simple as that. Neil Robertson is one of the top players, and the tour is hardly awash with Aussies is it?

This whole situation can only really be improved with investment in the amateur game.


Aye it's a good sport in seemingly being unbiased physically as far as sports go, not as much as darts as it does have some physicality e.g. cue power but I can see women being on some parity with men & it should have little racial bias if any, being athletic or tall while it has some benefits is hardly a requirement to be good at snooker, Shaun Murphy, Mark Allen, John Higgins (Ok he got fit this season), Mark Williams... Plenty of snooker players are in bad shape but are elites at their game, yes Ronnie has an edge on most players even the younglings as he's very fit.... A lot of players are over 6ft, taller than the ideal 5'10" young Ronnie said but with extensions, rests, spiders... Being short isn't an issue for the game (Well being a dwarf is lol, so being tall enough to at least bend over the table is the min height requirement), being too tall would be though, all the bending down is bad for the spine.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby chengdufan

To become good enough to be a snooker pro, you need both talent and loads of opportunity to practice.
To get the opportunity to practice a lot, you either need to come from a wealthyish family and have parents who don't mind if you're not doing your homework, or you need free access to a table.
What sort of demographic ticks those boxes? I'll give you a clue, it doesn't include many young black kids.

To really make the game more open to all, you need to have open events for kids to give snooker a try. For those who show some natural talent, offer them scholarships for free coaching, which is then managed alongside their schoolwork.
And do this in as many geographical locations as possible.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby SnookerArcher

chengdufan wrote:To become good enough to be a snooker pro, you need both talent and loads of opportunity to practice.
To get the opportunity to practice a lot, you either need to come from a wealthyish family and have parents who don't mind if you're not doing your homework, or you need free access to a table.
What sort of demographic ticks those boxes? I'll give you a clue, it doesn't include many young black kids.

To really make the game more open to all, you need to have open events for kids to give snooker a try. For those who show some natural talent, offer them scholarships for free coaching, which is then managed alongside their schoolwork.
And do this in as many geographical locations as possible.


Doesn't China have it on their national curriculum? Even then that won't help too much to become a pro you need to practise hrs daily and most people won't have the means to have a table at home, yes basketball is very cheap and easy to practise, just need a ball and hoop. Pool and table tennis to get to a facility is easier than snooker, the table size being 1 factor, I imagine pubs, pool clubs and halls may see pool as a better investment, certainly with less risks anyway as snooker is a much more specialised game with the table being 50% bigger than a pool table.

If it is about costs then how do blacks fare in professional pool?

chengdufan wrote:To become good enough to be a snooker pro, you need both talent and loads of opportunity to practice.
To get the opportunity to practice a lot, you either need to come from a wealthyish family and have parents who don't mind if you're not doing your homework, or you need free access to a table.


Ronnie O'Sullivan all over, I can't think of a high profile player who's had a fairytale start like his (Yes I know it got derailed with his father being jailed & mother for a much shorter period), O'Sullivans were millionaires long before the boy picked up a cue so while he's had the most immense pressure to be the best, better than his idols even someday with his dad telling everyone he'll be world champ since the boy was a kid he never had the financial pressure. I know, he laughs at the low ranked players calling them numpties & he'd have to lose an arm and leg to fall out of the top 50, funny as it is & I STILL laugh at that on a serious note he really has been blessed growing up to hone his talent with everything provided for him, like Ding neither has to do well on the tour to survive, they'll get big money regardless of prize money if anything their commercial interests outstrip whatever they win from the green baize.

Ronnie can & has gone into reality tv he can very easily do that and give up snooker anytime & he says and knows it, partly why he's the most dangerous opponent throughout his career as it's not life or death to win for him, much less so vs most players anyway. In his words he treats it like a hobby.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby SnookerArcher

chengdufan wrote:To really make the game more open to all, you need to have open events for kids to give snooker a try. For those who show some natural talent, offer them scholarships for free coaching, which is then managed alongside their schoolwork.
And do this in as many geographical locations as possible.


That's why China is reaping success in so many sports not just snooker, they have the funding & infrastructure to hone talent, they invest a lot into the ones who are promising so they can dedicate themselves fully & not worry about issues western sportspeople contend with like sponsorship. Team GB has a vicious circle system of giving more funding to sports that perform well in olympics, that's all very well but how can they expect the athletes not getting results to improve with no help? Underinvestment is a recipe for no success.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Wildey

too much race argument is done buck all that crap. racism is a real problem and people like Rory highlighting rubbish like this is not helping.


equal opportunity means get hold of a cue and perform to a standard and win.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Iranu

Wildey wrote:too much race argument is done buck all that crap. racism is a real problem and people like Rory highlighting rubbish like this is not helping.


equal opportunity means get hold of a cue and perform to a standard and win.

Considering the last time I went to a snooker club it was all white people, one of whom casually used the word c**n, I disagree.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Johnny Bravo

SnookerArcher wrote:From a diversity perspective yes I would like the game to be far less British (Primarily English) dominated and to have women breaking in,.............

Despite the fact that cue sports are not physically demanding sports, women still aren't as good as men. It is what it is. :shrug:

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby SnookerFan

Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerArcher wrote:From a diversity perspective yes I would like the game to be far less British (Primarily English) dominated and to have women breaking in,.............

Despite the fact that cue sports are not physically demanding sports, women still aren't as good as men. It is what it is. :shrug:


But is that because less women are interested in the sport, and because the game has traditionally been promoted to them less than it has men?

A couple of years ago, I saw a women's tournament advertised as being not too far away from me. It was being held in the back room of a pub.

The men you see on tour are playing in professional tournaments from childhood practically. If women reach adulthood before they take it up, because it's not been promoted to them, or because there are less opportunities for them, then that might explain why they're "not as good".

It's one thing saying pick up a cue, and if you're good enough you're good enough. But if 50% of the world's population aren't being given as much opportunities to improve their skills there's nothing wrong with the WST looking at ways to address this.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Johnny Bravo

SnookerFan wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerArcher wrote:From a diversity perspective yes I would like the game to be far less British (Primarily English) dominated and to have women breaking in,.............

Despite the fact that cue sports are not physically demanding sports, women still aren't as good as men. It is what it is. :shrug:


But is that because less women are interested in the sport, and because the game has traditionally been promoted to them less than it has men?

A couple of years ago, I saw a women's tournament advertised as being not too far away from me. It was being held in the back room of a pub.

The men you see on tour are playing in professional tournaments from childhood practically. If women reach adulthood before they take it up, because it's not been promoted to them, or because there are less opportunities for them, then that might explain why they're "not as good".

It's one thing saying pick up a cue, and if you're good enough you're good enough. But if 50% of the world's population aren't being given as much opportunities to improve their skills there's nothing wrong with the WST looking at ways to address this.

You make a good point.
I don't know of why women are worse at it than men, perhaps it also has to do with less women taking up the sport, as you said, but IMO men might also have better hand to eye coordination or something. :shrug: :chin:
For example, in pool, the women's game is far more developed than in snooker, and since the 90s, plenty of women have played to a very high level, yet none of them have surpassed the men.
The break is also a big reason there, since women can't generate as much power as men.
But overall, I just think men probably have something extra for a physical point of view.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Iranu

Men have had 100 years of development in snooker, women have had like half of that and in many cases not even allowed to join clubs (was it Rebecca Kenna who still isn’t allowed to take part in some league matches for her club because of other clubs’ rules?) not to mention the atmosphere of clubs history not being very woman-friendly.

It’s not really a surprise that women are currently lagging behind men, without even having to go into physical attributes.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby stanley_

I'm not sure what the answer is but it's in the interests of snooker to promote the game to different regions. Other than Chinese players, the tour is still hugely dominated by British players and the average age seems to keep getting older. There aren't a great deal of younger players breaking through and Q School shows that many of those who get back in are older (Lawler etc.).

Although this isn't related to race, the fact that they keep handing out wildcards to guys who are 50+ and who have very little chance of competing on tour (and, in Hendry's case, show little interest in playing in many tournaments) rather than giving it out to youngsters like Gao Yang who narrowly missed out on retaining a place, shows that their priorities aren't great at the moment. They seem more interested in keeping the famous players from the 80s/90s on tour regardless of ability instead of trying to get more young players involved.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby SnookerFan

Iranu wrote:Men have had 100 years of development in snooker, women have had like half of that and in many cases not even allowed to join clubs (was it Rebecca Kenna who still isn’t allowed to take part in some league matches for her club because of other clubs’ rules?) not to mention the atmosphere of clubs history not being very woman-friendly.

It’s not really a surprise that women are currently lagging behind men, without even having to go into physical attributes.


Yes, I'd forgotten that.

Ridiculous that some clubs are still male only. There really is no need for it.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

McLeod's suggestion that there should be wildcards for Black players was silly. It would look incredibly bad if WST started giving out tour places on racial lines. What he is right about is how there should have been more to promote Snooker in black communities. For a sport which like Darts (another almost all white sport) that prides itself on how working-class it is there is pretty much no players from minorities that are mainly from that class background.

stanley_ wrote:Although this isn't related to race, the fact that they keep handing out wildcards to guys who are 50+ and who have very little chance of competing on tour (and, in Hendry's case, show little interest in playing in many tournaments) rather than giving it out to youngsters like Gao Yang who narrowly missed out on retaining a place, shows that their priorities aren't great at the moment. They seem more interested in keeping the famous players from the 80s/90s on tour regardless of ability instead of trying to get more young players involved.


I said this last week but the format change for the UK Championship which does has some positives looks awful when you consider who was in the final last year and who was moaning about having to play amateurs in the first round. That is probably a problem with the BBC more than WST.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Iranu

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:McLeod's suggestion that there should be wildcards for Black players was silly. It would look incredibly bad if WST started giving out tour places on racial lines. What he is right about is how there should have been more to promote Snooker in black communities. For a sport which like Darts (another almost all white sport) that prides itself on how working-class it is there is pretty much no players from minorities that are mainly from that class background.

I think this comes back to the culture of snooker clubs which can be a similar vibe to Working Mens Clubs and not necessarily the most inclusive environment

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Pink Ball

SnookerFan wrote:
Iranu wrote:Men have had 100 years of development in snooker, women have had like half of that and in many cases not even allowed to join clubs (was it Rebecca Kenna who still isn’t allowed to take part in some league matches for her club because of other clubs’ rules?) not to mention the atmosphere of clubs history not being very woman-friendly.

It’s not really a surprise that women are currently lagging behind men, without even having to go into physical attributes.


Yes, I'd forgotten that.

Ridiculous that some clubs are still male only. There really is no need for it.

Are some clubs really still male only? Snooker’s a working-class sport so I’ve never understood clubs that try to go down the golf route. Like dressing a shitty old bush pretending to be Shakira.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Iranu wrote:Men have had 100 years of development in snooker, women have had like half of that and in many cases not even allowed to join clubs (was it Rebecca Kenna who still isn’t allowed to take part in some league matches for her club because of other clubs’ rules?) not to mention the atmosphere of clubs history not being very woman-friendly.

It’s not really a surprise that women are currently lagging behind men, without even having to go into physical attributes.


Yes, I'd forgotten that.

Ridiculous that some clubs are still male only. There really is no need for it.

Are some clubs really still male only? Snooker’s a working-class sport so I’ve never understood clubs that try to go down the golf route. Like dressing a shitty old bush pretending to be Shakira.

Tbh I can’t understand golf clubs that go down the golf club route

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby Pink Ball

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Iranu wrote:Men have had 100 years of development in snooker, women have had like half of that and in many cases not even allowed to join clubs (was it Rebecca Kenna who still isn’t allowed to take part in some league matches for her club because of other clubs’ rules?) not to mention the atmosphere of clubs history not being very woman-friendly.

It’s not really a surprise that women are currently lagging behind men, without even having to go into physical attributes.


Yes, I'd forgotten that.

Ridiculous that some clubs are still male only. There really is no need for it.

Are some clubs really still male only? Snooker’s a working-class sport so I’ve never understood clubs that try to go down the golf route. Like dressing a shitty old bush pretending to be Shakira.

Tbh I can’t understand golf clubs that go down the golf club route

Because the men who play it have enough money to keep the clubs going. Most snooker players have no teeth and one shirt.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby SnookerArcher

Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerArcher wrote:From a diversity perspective yes I would like the game to be far less British (Primarily English) dominated and to have women breaking in,.............

Despite the fact that cue sports are not physically demanding sports, women still aren't as good as men. It is what it is. :shrug:


But is that because less women are interested in the sport, and because the game has traditionally been promoted to them less than it has men?

A couple of years ago, I saw a women's tournament advertised as being not too far away from me. It was being held in the back room of a pub.

The men you see on tour are playing in professional tournaments from childhood practically. If women reach adulthood before they take it up, because it's not been promoted to them, or because there are less opportunities for them, then that might explain why they're "not as good".

It's one thing saying pick up a cue, and if you're good enough you're good enough. But if 50% of the world's population aren't being given as much opportunities to improve their skills there's nothing wrong with the WST looking at ways to address this.

You make a good point.
I don't know of why women are worse at it than men, perhaps it also has to do with less women taking up the sport, as you said, but IMO men might also have better hand to eye coordination or something. :shrug: :chin:
For example, in pool, the women's game is far more developed than in snooker, and since the 90s, plenty of women have played to a very high level, yet none of them have surpassed the men.
The break is also a big reason there, since women can't generate as much power as men.
But overall, I just think men probably have something extra for a physical point of view.


I've read explanations for the differences in how the brains are wired between the sexes, men are left brained (logic), women centre. Left handers are right brained which is good for arts & sport. Darts or shooting, videogames should be fairly even if there's no/little natural coordination advantage between the two.

One answer to help along women in the WST are mixed team events. As for the race issue... It's a niche sport to begin with, much harder than pool & other table sports even at the lowest level not to mention how much longer it takes to play, most people will never even play snooker on a table in their life. Thinking back to school where there were a lot of blacks, the majority even in many classes the general sport interest was the cliche football (I've never cared for that at pro level, I used to enjoy playing it though). Team ballgames are a lot cheaper & easier to get into, more inclusive, for those into sports vast majority of british schoolboys want to be footballers (Snore, very few sports I've watch football over and golf is one of them!)
People often follow the herd so interest in a niche game that requires so much dedication to be good is difficult to come by for racial minorities that aren't traditionally that into it. In the case of blacks they tend to thrive at athletics, basketball, boxing etc.... physical sports, table sports not so much to my knowledge & water sports, technical sports such as gymnastics they tend not to have a large number at elite levels & fewer who win (Yes Simone Biles was ridiculously successful, like Serena Williams at tennis but they're exceptions).
Not to say the talent isn't there just it's not as tapped into & that will be more the case for niche disciplines.

Re: Rory McLeod comments on Sky Sports

Postby HappyCamper

McManusFan wrote:I thought the whole left/right brain thing wasn't true.


aye it's basically nonsense, or being generous a gross oversimplification. but once these pop psychology ideas take hold they tend to stick around.