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Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Johnny Bravo

CaldoTheKid wrote:https://www.eurosport.co.uk/snooker/world-championship/2021-2022/he-has-just-three-major-wins-mark-selby-on-why-judd-trump-is-not-yet-an-all-time-great_sto8685749/story-amp.shtml

Selbo is jealous Trump is more loved than him, despite not being as successful.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Holden Chinaski

Johnny Bravo wrote:
CaldoTheKid wrote:https://www.eurosport.co.uk/snooker/world-championship/2021-2022/he-has-just-three-major-wins-mark-selby-on-why-judd-trump-is-not-yet-an-all-time-great_sto8685749/story-amp.shtml

Selbo is jealous Trump is more loved than him, despite not being as successful.

Nobody likes Trump.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby SnookerFan

Johnny Bravo wrote:
CaldoTheKid wrote:https://www.eurosport.co.uk/snooker/world-championship/2021-2022/he-has-just-three-major-wins-mark-selby-on-why-judd-trump-is-not-yet-an-all-time-great_sto8685749/story-amp.shtml

Selbo is jealous Trump is more loved than him, despite not being as successful.


Trump didn't invite him round for Thanksgiving dinner.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby TheRocket

I think all these comments get under Judds skin and its part of the reason why he hasnt played that well recently. Selby obviously not the first one who spoke about Judds poor TC record. Just like Robbos mere World title record speaks against him, so does Judds TC record.

They both arguably played the best Snooker over the last 2-3 years consistently and are the best players but they still have a lot to prove.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby SnookerFan

Dan-cat wrote:Selby being honest here. He's got 4 WCs.

Doesn't matter how good your peak game is


Well, it matters a bit.

I don't think I'd win The Crucible even if I was playing my peak game. Let alone playing below it.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Reg Varney

Dan-cat wrote:Selby being honest here. He's got 4 WCs.

Doesn't matter how good your peak game is


Yup. Trump may have more ranking titles than Selby but I know who's career I'd want, and it wouldn't be the Terminators.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby orky

I'm 99.9% sure Selby was just being honest when being asked the question. Nothing to do with jealousy or player x being liked or not being liked etc. I think all neutral snooker fans would agree with him. I know Selby is a something like 7 or 8 years older than Trump or thereabouts, but I'd much rather have Selby's career than Trump's. Absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that Trump will get near to, match or even beat Selby's records when he makes up the age gap difference or when both have retired. 4 world championships, 3 masters and 2 UK wins trounces what Trump has achieved so far and IMO at the moment Trump is not a true all time great. He's miles behind the likes of Selby Reardon and Williams let alone Davis Higgins Hendry and O' Sullivan. Thinking you are as good as you are doesn't automatically make you as good lol.

As for the peak standard argument, that is another debate. You could argue Selby has played in the harder era as he turned pro sooner after the class of 92 did and Trump came along later. Selby has had to fight against slightly younger versions of class of 92 and the likes of Murphy Robertson etc who are closer to his age bracket. Judd has been fighting against far older versions of the class of 92 and the only great player in his age range is Ding who is an awesome player but seems to have disappeared from the top echelons of the game, sadly.

I'd much rather have a so called lower peak standard level and win far more than have a really high peak standard level, play to that level once in a blue moon and not win the big ones consistently like the true greats. Ultimately having the higher peak level doesn't matter too much as it's the titles that count, and I'm not including the Gibralter Open lol. Selby is a mental giant of the game and that's where he gains a lot of my respect. Judd on the other hand is crumbling mentally where it matters most.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Prop

Good post, as usual, Orky.

I suppose it boils down to how you might define a great or an all time great. For me, he’s not quite all time. Not yet. It’s easy to get spellbound watching him play somewhere near his peak level. Higgins (after Judd beat him in the CoC final) declared him an all time great, and it just didn’t sit right with me. Trophies are what do the talking.

Maybe in ten years we’ll be able to look at his titles and say he became an all time great. But he’s still got to do it.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Iranu

Johnny Bravo wrote:
CaldoTheKid wrote:https://www.eurosport.co.uk/snooker/world-championship/2021-2022/he-has-just-three-major-wins-mark-selby-on-why-judd-trump-is-not-yet-an-all-time-great_sto8685749/story-amp.shtml

Selbo is jealous Trump is more loved than him, despite not being as successful.

What did he say that you disagree with?

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Iranu

SnookerFan wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Selby being honest here. He's got 4 WCs.

Doesn't matter how good your peak game is


Well, it matters a bit.

I don't think I'd win The Crucible even if I was playing my peak game. Let alone playing below it.

Most players’ peak games are pretty much the same.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby orky

I genuinely think it is another argument in terms of which player has the higher peak level. But does that make them a greater player? Wasn't it Tepchaia who rattled in 5 centuries the other week in a best of 11 match? Who else has reached that peak level? Hence I say it's the big titles that matter most ultimately.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Johnny Bravo

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
CaldoTheKid wrote:https://www.eurosport.co.uk/snooker/world-championship/2021-2022/he-has-just-three-major-wins-mark-selby-on-why-judd-trump-is-not-yet-an-all-time-great_sto8685749/story-amp.shtml

Selbo is jealous Trump is more loved than him, despite not being as successful.

Nobody likes Trump.

Maybe you don't, but I do. I enjoy his game a lot and don't a buck about what he says otherwise. And most casuals feel the same. <cool>

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby orky

I love the way Trump plays, a real joy to watch when something near his best and a huge asset to the game. However that alone doesn't mean what Selby is saying isn't true. Trump of course still has time in his side but I just cannot see him matching Selby/Higgins's triple crown tally. I'd actually be surprised if he wins a second world title. His cue action is rather unique and when it goes it's gonna go rather quickly. He won't be winning titles in his 40s I don't think. Also, the CO92 and the likes of Murphy, Selby, Robertson etc are gonna stick around for a few years yet. Hopefully the likes of Brecel Xintong and Yan move on to the next level - all things considered it's going to be tough for Judd. None of the others mentioned, apart from maybe Robertson at the Crucible, will be under as much pressure and that's going to be a huge factor IMO.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Johnny Bravo

orky wrote:I'm 99.9% sure Selby was just being honest when being asked the question. Nothing to do with jealousy or player x being liked or not being liked etc. I think all neutral snooker fans would agree with him. I know Selby is a something like 7 or 8 years older than Trump or thereabouts, but I'd much rather have Selby's career than Trump's. Absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that Trump will get near to, match or even beat Selby's records when he makes up the age gap difference or when both have retired. 4 world championships, 3 masters and 2 UK wins trounces what Trump has achieved so far and IMO at the moment Trump is not a true all time great. He's miles behind the likes of Selby Reardon and Williams let alone Davis Higgins Hendry and O' Sullivan. Thinking you are as good as you are doesn't automatically make you as good lol.

Of course Selbo has the better career atm, that's undisputable. But in 8 years time, Trump might match him.


orky wrote:As for the peak standard argument, that is another debate. You could argue Selby has played in the harder era as he turned pro sooner after the class of 92 did and Trump came along later. Selby has had to fight against slightly younger versions of class of 92 and the likes of Murphy Robertson etc who are closer to his age bracket. Judd has been fighting against far older versions of the class of 92 and the only great player in his age range is Ding who is an awesome player but seems to have disappeared from the top echelons of the game, sadly.

Well, you make a pretty good point, but you are talking apples and oranges.

Trump does have a higher peak, that hasn't got as much to do with who you are playing, but it's mostly about how heavy you can score and demolish the opposition. Selbo has always had to battle hard for his wins, he has never been able to blast opponents of the table the way Trump has. ROs and Hendry are the only other 2 that have done it.
So Selbo having to face younger versions of the class of 92 + Robbo and Smurf, means that he indeed has had to work harder to win his titles, but it doesn't influence peak form, an area where Trump clearly edges him.


orky wrote:I'd much rather have a so called lower peak standard level and win far more than have a really high peak standard level, play to that level once in a blue moon and not win the big ones consistently like the true greats. Ultimately having the higher peak level doesn't matter too much as it's the titles that count, and I'm not including the Gibralter Open lol. Selby is a mental giant of the game and that's where he gains a lot of my respect. Judd on the other hand is crumbling mentally where it matters most.

Trump is clearly not as strong mentally as Selbo, but he ain't weak either. IMO it also depends on who you are facing. Trump always fancies his chances against Selbo and sees himself as superior, that's why he manages to trounce Selbo most of the time, cause he doesn't fear him at all and plays relaxed. Whereas against Higgins, he has crumbled many times.

ROS always poops his pants against Higgins, yet he trounces Williams.

Life can be weird sometimes. :? :dizzy:

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Iranu

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Iranu wrote:How do you know what all these players’ peaks are, Johnny? Have you watched them in practice?

No, but practice does not matter. I'm talking about match performance.

And how do you know which players have hit their peak in a match?

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby SnookerFan

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
CaldoTheKid wrote:https://www.eurosport.co.uk/snooker/world-championship/2021-2022/he-has-just-three-major-wins-mark-selby-on-why-judd-trump-is-not-yet-an-all-time-great_sto8685749/story-amp.shtml

Selbo is jealous Trump is more loved than him, despite not being as successful.

Nobody likes Trump.

Maybe you don't, but I do. I enjoy his game a lot and don't a buck about what he says otherwise. And most casuals feel the same. <cool>


Are you saying you're a casual?

How can you possibly be a casual fan, yet still know enough to coach Ronnie O'Sullivan?

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Johnny Bravo

Iranu wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
Iranu wrote:How do you know what all these players’ peaks are, Johnny? Have you watched them in practice?

No, but practice does not matter. I'm talking about match performance.

And how do you know which players have hit their peak in a match?

If you are talking about whether they can play to a higher standard in a match than in practice, that I don't know.
I was just taking about the level they perform in matches, how high it is. Basically I look at how well they pot, the type of shots they pot/miss, their scoring, their safety etc.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Johnny Bravo

SnookerFan wrote:Are you saying you're a casual?

How can you possibly be a casual fan, yet still know enough to coach Ronnie O'Sullivan?

I never said I'm a casual. I said me and most snooker fans/viewers (which happen to be casuals) only look at how players perform on the table (not at what they say/do otherwise), and because of this Trump is loved.

Re: Selby claims Trump is not an all time great

Postby Johnny Bravo

orky wrote:So Johnny, in that case do you not think Hendry's peak form had something to do with the (so called) inferior opposition of the early to mid nineties?

I do think Hendry's peak form had to do something with the type of opposition he was facing, but in Trump's case, he's facing superior opposition. <cool>