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Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby lhpirnie

Iranu wrote:
cupotee wrote:Ian mcculloch’s knowledge and enthusiasm would be really good for the presentation , allan taylor i think would fit in well too , and more lisowski when he’s no longer in tournaments , there’s three that would add well to the mix.

I don’t think players should commentate or do punditry if they’re taking their snooker seriously. I did like Jack at the Worlds though. Maybe he could do more next year since it’s the end of the season anyway

Ronnie being the exception because he’s shown he can make it work. Look at Murphy’s results when he was doing commentary and punditry.

It's a good way for players to transition into retirement. I think Dominic Dale is excellent, very knowledgeable and certainly not dull.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby SnookerFan

Iranu wrote:
cupotee wrote:Ian mcculloch’s knowledge and enthusiasm would be really good for the presentation , allan taylor i think would fit in well too , and more lisowski when he’s no longer in tournaments , there’s three that would add well to the mix.

I don’t think players should commentate or do punditry if they’re taking their snooker seriously. I did like Jack at the Worlds though. Maybe he could do more next year since it’s the end of the season anyway

Ronnie being the exception because he’s shown he can make it work. Look at Murphy’s results when he was doing commentary and punditry.


Agreed, but a player getting towards the end of his career isn't so bad.

For example, Doherty has commentated for years on the BBC despite being an active player. Davis, Parrott and Hendry did too, before retiring. If you're doing it towards the end of your career when you not realistically going to be consistently going deep into tournaments that's one thing. If you'd rather sacrifice practice time, to give yourself some experience for commentary so you can transition to it when you retire, that's your decision to make.

When Murphy did it, it was more questionable. He is still close enough to his prime that he should be looking at winning tournaments. Having a session of commentary before an important Crucible session was just silly. Judd and Lisowski at least waited until they were knocked out of the tournament first.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby Iranu

lhpirnie wrote:
Iranu wrote:
cupotee wrote:Ian mcculloch’s knowledge and enthusiasm would be really good for the presentation , allan taylor i think would fit in well too , and more lisowski when he’s no longer in tournaments , there’s three that would add well to the mix.

I don’t think players should commentate or do punditry if they’re taking their snooker seriously. I did like Jack at the Worlds though. Maybe he could do more next year since it’s the end of the season anyway

Ronnie being the exception because he’s shown he can make it work. Look at Murphy’s results when he was doing commentary and punditry.

It's a good way for players to transition into retirement. I think Dominic Dale is excellent, very knowledgeable and certainly not dull.

Oh yeah totally. Murphy was about 35 when he did it. And he’d even said a year before on Snooker Scene that when you start doing punditry it’s a sign that you think you’re finished as a player!

If you’re in your career twilight that’s completely different.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby Johnny Bravo

Andre147 wrote:https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/20/john-virgo-expects-next-world-snooker-championship-to-be-last-for-him-and-dennis-taylor-15287651/?fbclid=IwAR1KQB4KJ95udmmHr621M-t_vwGbiIaqTvGwG3IrDC7Xi2ohmesJDBZIgVQ

It seems as though BBC have taken the decision to get rid of Virgo and Taylor after next year's World Championships.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Good riddance

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby Prop

Always makes me chuckle when DT trots out the “Thinball Wizard” gag. I mean, how many audience members in 2021 even remember the song? <laugh>

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby Andre147

Judging by the reactions here, seems most will be pleased to see the BBC get rid of Taylor, but believe Virgo still has something to offer.

I believe it depends who Virgo is commentating with.. for instance with Hendry it works perfectly, even Hendry once said commentating with Virgo is his favourite partner.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby SnookerFan

Andre147 wrote:Judging by the reactions here, seems most will be pleased to see the BBC get rid of Taylor, but believe Virgo still has something to offer.

I believe it depends who Virgo is commentating with.. for instance with Hendry it works perfectly, even Hendry once said commentating with Virgo is his favourite partner.


I think it's a fine line.

Personally, I'm not hugely disappointed that the BBC are moving in a direction of getting more knowledgeable commentators in. I know you need more than just knowledge to be a good commentator, but we're always the first on here to complain when the BBC get things wrong with their coverage. Commentators making factual gaffes, and not knowing who half the players are are part of that.

Having said that, us saddos who post on internet are the minority of the BBC audience. (In fact, I know there are some people on here who barely watch snooker on the BBC any more.) There's lots of people who are big fans of both Taylor and Virgo. They can be affable guys and are decent/experienced TV personalities. Should us minority be catered too, especially when Eurosport is an option? (Assuming that people can afford the channel, or are technologically proficient enough to get The App of course.)

I have noticed that at the past couple of Crucibles, the BBC do seem to be attempting to present it more professionally with longer coverage, use of BBC 4, even referring to non-BBC tournaments on analysis. I may be dreaming, but I think even Dennis Taylor has referred to golf a bit less.

That'll definitely please us. And makes it feel like they are presenting the sport in a more professional way. But, snake hissing off the majority of viewers is risky for a sport that is quite dependent on freeview coverage. We're not as popular as we'd like, sadly. And do ITV have enough dedication to show a 17-day tournament, where they have to show two tables and they can't cut out Saturday afternoon coverage to show horse racing?

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby 1892

Andre147 wrote:Judging by the reactions here, seems most will be pleased to see the BBC get rid of Taylor, but believe Virgo still has something to offer.

I believe it depends who Virgo is commentating with.. for instance with Hendry it works perfectly, even Hendry once said commentating with Virgo is his favourite partner.


That is exactly how I feel.

Not fussed about DT, but Virgo not being involved would be a shame. He was a miss at The Crucible last year I thought.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby Prop

One thing for me is that age itself should never be a factor in it. So applying whatever rule they have to come to the decision to sack DT and Virgo, surely Parrott’s head is next on the chopping block?

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby Iranu

Dan-cat wrote:DT's commentary hasn't declined at all with age (yet), we are just bored with the same old well worn cliches and idioms.

I think we'll miss him... on and on it seems to go, you don't what you've got till it's gone

It definitely has, though. His memory’s going if nothing else.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby SteveJJ

It may be a mistake culling them at the same time whether you feel their time has come or not. BBC guilty of not managing a transition sooner.

DT should be the first to go. I'd get rid of Parrott before Virgo though.

The bare minimum should be for a commentator to make the effort to learn about new players to upgrade their knowledge and skills. Times change, they haven't.

In terms of replacements. There are already some good ones at the beeb in McManus and Hendry.

I liked the guy who stood in at the Covid Crucible.

I think Ken is ok when hes not playing the joker/DT lite schtick.

Davis is better in the studio than in comms.

I must be in the minority in liking Perry. More insightful than ROS.

They need to sign Dale up.

If its true that Lines offered Xiao out for a fight whether that has any effect on getting comms work.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby Prop

Agree there, Steve. Particularly about Davis. He’s got all the knowledge and experience in the world but he just doesn’t do a job of getting any of it across in comms. He doesn’t commit to an opinion, and tends to waffle.

Dom Dale is very good. I’d be happy to hear more of him.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby Iranu

Agree with pretty much all of that Steve.

Ken’s noticeably better on ITV comms because it’s a less laddish/pally atmosphere.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby The_Abbott

I'm not sure what the BBC are trying to achieve here. I agree that commentators need to be freshened up at times but there are far worse at the BBC then these two. Parrott is younger and has even less knowledge of the game. Steve Davis rarely bothers these days.

Perry is too bland

Walker? Seriously?

Trump didn't add much when he tried.

Virgo is right the shots are the shots and is like the old school comedians who know how to wow a crowd. They get excited at teh crucible which is what we need not some bland dull yapping about stats and calling the wrong shots.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby badtemperedcyril

JV has definitely upped his game in the past 4 or 5 years whereas Dennis is pretty annoying. He goes on and on about his DDT's and little gems and quotes a lot of incorrect historical facts. Quite often he'll repeat the same WRONG information time and time again. In my opinion, for Dennis it's time to retire gracefully but JV should stay.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby SnookerFan

SteveJJ wrote:It may be a mistake culling them at the same time whether you feel their time has come or not. BBC guilty of not managing a transition sooner.

DT should be the first to go. I'd get rid of Parrott before Virgo though.

The bare minimum should be for a commentator to make the effort to learn about new players to upgrade their knowledge and skills. Times change, they haven't.

In terms of replacements. There are already some good ones at the beeb in McManus and Hendry.

I liked the guy who stood in at the Covid Crucible.

I think Ken is ok when hes not playing the joker/DT lite schtick.

Davis is better in the studio than in comms.

I must be in the minority in liking Perry. More insightful than ROS.

They need to sign Dale up.

If its true that Lines offered Xiao out for a fight whether that has any effect on getting comms work.


Dave Farrar, you mean.

Yeah. Use him. He was good.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby Johnny Bravo

SnookerFan wrote:Having said that, us saddos who post on internet are the minority of the BBC audience. (In fact, I know there are some people on here who barely watch snooker on the BBC any more.)

I watch on Eurosport, always had, always will. :-)

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby SnookerFan

Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:Having said that, us saddos who post on internet are the minority of the BBC audience. (In fact, I know there are some people on here who barely watch snooker on the BBC any more.)

I watch on Eurosport, always had, always will. :-)


I flick between the two when a BBC tournament is on. Partly for reasons of variety. We see the Eurosport coverage a lot of the year, it can be nice to see something different occasionally.

And partly just based on what it's easier for me to watch. I usually don't have the Eurosport App, but have the channel on my TV package. Pre-2012, when you could watch either match on the Red Button I tended to stick with BBC. When they reduced that, and were having a lot less coverage on the BBC, I would often turn over to Eurosport. At the time, they often used Eurosport 1 and 2 for when The Crucible and UK were on, so it was easier to find the match you wanted. I have reverted back to BBC more now. Eurosport no longer use both channels when a BBC event is on, presumably to get people to download their App. But I not have the I-Player built into my TV package so can watch it that way, even if the match I want to watch isn't on the main channel or Red Button.

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby badtemperedcyril

Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:Having said that, us saddos who post on internet are the minority of the BBC audience. (In fact, I know there are some people on here who barely watch snooker on the BBC any more.)

I watch on Eurosport, always had, always will. :-)

I watch both, mainly depending on who's commentating. I like Hendry, Parrott and Virgo on BBC and Foulds and Hendon on Eurosport. I often chose ES during the last WC though because it offered continuous coverage, enabling me to pause while I cooked dinner. It was a flippin nuisance on the BBC when evening coverage started on BBC1, then moved to BBC2 then at 8pm it went to the red button. FFS, what a ball ache!

Re: Virgo and Taylor last World Champs?

Postby SnookerFan

badtemperedcyril wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:Having said that, us saddos who post on internet are the minority of the BBC audience. (In fact, I know there are some people on here who barely watch snooker on the BBC any more.)

I watch on Eurosport, always had, always will. :-)

I watch both, mainly depending on who's commentating. I like Hendry, Parrott and Virgo on BBC and Foulds and Hendon on Eurosport. I often chose ES during the last WC though because it offered continuous coverage, enabling me to pause while I cooked dinner. It was a flippin nuisance on the BBC when evening coverage started on BBC1, then moved to BBC2 then at 8pm it went to the red button. FFS, what a ball ache!


The whole flicking between channels thing doesn't bother me that much, but can see why people would hate it if they were wanting to pause it as you say. Or Sky Plus it. Do people Sky Plus snooker when The Crucible is on? It's on pretty constantly.


   

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