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The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Dan-cat

From the Metro today:

Judd Trump feels snooker is failing to move with the times and risks being left a long way behind other sports if changes aren’t made to attract a younger audience. The world number one has plenty of ideas on the matter and wants to see commentary, dress code, marketing and TV coverage all seriously shaken up. The 31-year-old has enjoyed incredible success in the last three seasons, winning his first World Championship and Masters titles and taking his career prize money to well over £5m. Far from resting on his laurels, though, he believes snooker faces a difficult future as it is not appealing to younger sports fans and he wants and he wants changes made fast. The Ace sees two major problems with how the game is presented. Firstly, how the players dress, which he feels is completely unappealing to a younger audience.

Secondly, he believes snooker has something of an obsession with the past, showcasing veterans rather than young talent on the television, and allowing unbridled waves of nostalgia rather than living in the present. Trump sees other sports modernising and urges snooker to follow their lead. ‘It’s kind of stuck in a rut a little bit, it’s fallen behind some of the other sports and not enough is being done on the whole image of snooker,’ Trump told Metro.co.uk. ‘I’ve got the golf on and their clothing is all changing, becoming more lenient for the younger generation. People don’t want to go around dressed in waistcoats nowadays, they did 40 years ago but snooker is falling behind, stuck in their own ways and other sports have moved on....

Full article:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/09/judd-tru ... -14381242/

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby SnookerFan

Dan-cat wrote:From the Metro today:

Judd Trump feels snooker is failing to move with the times and risks being left a long way behind other sports if changes aren’t made to attract a younger audience. The world number one has plenty of ideas on the matter and wants to see commentary, dress code, marketing and TV coverage all seriously shaken up. The 31-year-old has enjoyed incredible success in the last three seasons, winning his first World Championship and Masters titles and taking his career prize money to well over £5m. Far from resting on his laurels, though, he believes snooker faces a difficult future as it is not appealing to younger sports fans and he wants and he wants changes made fast. The Ace sees two major problems with how the game is presented. Firstly, how the players dress, which he feels is completely unappealing to a younger audience.

Secondly, he believes snooker has something of an obsession with the past, showcasing veterans rather than young talent on the television, and allowing unbridled waves of nostalgia rather than living in the present. Trump sees other sports modernising and urges snooker to follow their lead. ‘It’s kind of stuck in a rut a little bit, it’s fallen behind some of the other sports and not enough is being done on the whole image of snooker,’ Trump told Metro.co.uk. ‘I’ve got the golf on and their clothing is all changing, becoming more lenient for the younger generation. People don’t want to go around dressed in waistcoats nowadays, they did 40 years ago but snooker is falling behind, stuck in their own ways and other sports have moved on....

Full article:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/09/judd-tru ... -14381242/


For once, I agree with him.

This obsession with the 1980s does hold back younger talent. Sadly though, that does seem to be what people like.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Prop

He might have a point. But Judd’s idea of what might appeal to the younger audience would likely turn off large swathes of the existing audience.

I mean, what does he want to change? Have everyone dressed in tacky Armani and walking out to some horrific ‘urban’ chart noise?

It’s ok saying things should change, but I don’t hear him actually making any suggestions.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby mantorok

SnookerFan wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:From the Metro today:

Judd Trump feels snooker is failing to move with the times and risks being left a long way behind other sports if changes aren’t made to attract a younger audience. The world number one has plenty of ideas on the matter and wants to see commentary, dress code, marketing and TV coverage all seriously shaken up. The 31-year-old has enjoyed incredible success in the last three seasons, winning his first World Championship and Masters titles and taking his career prize money to well over £5m. Far from resting on his laurels, though, he believes snooker faces a difficult future as it is not appealing to younger sports fans and he wants and he wants changes made fast. The Ace sees two major problems with how the game is presented. Firstly, how the players dress, which he feels is completely unappealing to a younger audience.

Secondly, he believes snooker has something of an obsession with the past, showcasing veterans rather than young talent on the television, and allowing unbridled waves of nostalgia rather than living in the present. Trump sees other sports modernising and urges snooker to follow their lead. ‘It’s kind of stuck in a rut a little bit, it’s fallen behind some of the other sports and not enough is being done on the whole image of snooker,’ Trump told Metro.co.uk. ‘I’ve got the golf on and their clothing is all changing, becoming more lenient for the younger generation. People don’t want to go around dressed in waistcoats nowadays, they did 40 years ago but snooker is falling behind, stuck in their own ways and other sports have moved on....

Full article:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/09/judd-tru ... -14381242/


For once, I agree with him.

This obsession with the 1980s does hold back younger talent. Sadly though, that does seem to be what people like.


It's what older people like, a younger person is not going to understand the nostalgia. I also agree, I thought Hearn would understand this given how he attracted a younger audience to Darts, but then you can play Darts in front of 10,000 people in a large bar - simples.

You can't do that in Snooker, but what you can do is characterise the players better, give them a brand, have their nicknames branded on their clothes, create hype around their personality and style of game. That's something he could do, viewers invest in players more than anything these days, put the players at the forefront and market the rubbish of them.

BBC/ITV do this already, but you need to ramp it up significantly, you need to go over the top, make a splash, not just some cheesy interview.

Watch the build up on any Sky Sports Darts event, they are absolute bucking masters at building hype, they have an outstanding production team that simply knocks it out of the park, exquisite video editing and modern music used for maximum impact, and it works, it's totally over the top, but it works.

I think that would be a start imo

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby SnookerFan

I know out of seven billion odd people, I'm literally the only person in the world who thinks this, but I couldn't give a flying buck about the dress code.

If there was a way to change it that would bring in new fans, I'd be all up for it. But then, it absolutely baffles me that people would turn a sport on or off just based on what they're wearing, so I'm the wrong person to ask. (The exception is Beach Volleyball, of course. I watache that based on what they're wearing.) rofl

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby mantorok

I tell you what else would also help, a complete and utter shake-up of the commentary, and I don't mean getting rid of them and putting new people in, although there are some I would drop in a heartbeat, but generally the commentary is still very old school, where's the enthusiasm, the excitement? Why do some commentators feel the need to create that funeral-home feel?

And no I don't have any suggestions, some of the commentators comment really well on every stage of a match, and frame, take Fouldsy, when he speaks it's for reason and he is really engaging, they need more commentary like that, and they shouldn't go silent for too long, and if there's not much to say then talk about something interesting, maybe a bit more trivia about the players or something juicy, and yeah, they need to go a little over the top with the drama. Like I say there are a handful that do this already, the rest should be shot.

This is all theatrical and shallow I know, but unfortunately it works, viewers want to feel something important and exciting is happening, even if it is just a white ball hitting a another ball into the pocket.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby The_Abbott

So basically no ROS, MJW or Hoggins on teh match table! These old farts are the past!!

Also, why dress smart when you can dress like a loser.

BEAT IT JUDD!

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby SnookerFan

mantorok wrote:I tell you what else would also help, a complete and utter shake-up of the commentary, and I don't mean getting rid of them and putting new people in, although there are some I would drop in a heartbeat, but generally the commentary is still very old school, where's the enthusiasm, the excitement? Why do some commentators feel the need to create that funeral-home feel?

And no I don't have any suggestions, some of the commentators comment really well on every stage of a match, and frame, take Fouldsy, when he speaks it's for reason and he is really engaging, they need more commentary like that, and they shouldn't go silent for too long, and if there's not much to say then talk about something interesting, maybe a bit more trivia about the players or something juicy, and yeah, they need to go a little over the top with the drama. Like I say there are a handful that do this already, the rest should be shot.

This is all theatrical and shallow I know, but unfortunately it works, viewers want to feel something important and exciting is happening, even if it is just a white ball hitting a another ball into the pocket.



What I like about Foulds, and McManus too, is that they are former players but they also follow the game and stay knowledgeable about the current players.

Usually I would say that a commentary duo should be one former player and one journalist. The player will be there to analyse the game and explain why a player played a certain shot, the journalist is there to have stats and facts on the players currently on the table. Often when you should have two players, you have two people filling the same role. Foulds and McManus though, both could fit either role. That's what makes their commentary so good. They're former players, but it feels like they know what they're talking about when it comes to the modern game as well.

On the BBC we get old geezers like Virgo, Parrott and Dennis Taylor who quite often have no idea who the players are, even if they've had decent runs in several non-BBC tournaments. Even Hendry, who is good at the analysing of shots played and can do it with a gravitas because he was so successful, often admits he's no idea who a player is because he's only watching a tournament when he's paid to.

Foulds and Angles seem to have a rare ability to do it all.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Dan-cat

He raises some interesting points. The dress code... I dunno. I guess it does make it seem a bit dated. But I'm one of those fans that straddles the old / young divide I think. I like to watch Willo play (for example) because he's such a master, shotmaker, crafty buck. Not because he's old and I used to watch him 20 years ago.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Iranu

mantorok wrote:It's what older people like, a younger person is not going to understand the nostalgia. I also agree, I thought Hearn would understand this given how he attracted a younger audience to Darts, but then you can play Darts in front of 10,000 people in a large bar - simples.

You can't do that in Snooker, but what you can do is characterise the players better, give them a brand, have their nicknames branded on their clothes, create hype around their personality and style of game. That's something he could do, viewers invest in players more than anything these days, put the players at the forefront and market the rubbish of them.

BBC/ITV do this already, but you need to ramp it up significantly, you need to go over the top, make a splash, not just some cheesy interview.

Watch the build up on any Sky Sports Darts event, they are absolute bucking masters at building hype, they have an outstanding production team that simply knocks it out of the park, exquisite video editing and modern music used for maximum impact, and it works, it's totally over the top, but it works.

I think that would be a start imo

Do we actually know that young people don’t watch snooker? It seems to me that Judd’s making a link between something he’s assuming (young people don’t watch snooker) and something he personally dislikes (the dress code).

Putting nicknames on the players’ clothes would be tacky as buck. Snooker already tries way too hard to attach nicknames to players that haven’t earned them.

As much as they’ve often been lumped together, snooker is NOT like darts as a sport or an event. Being over the top and bombastic works in darts because the crowd is bombastic as well and treats it as an excuse to get snake hissed and buck about. Snooker’s completely different.

Snooker doesn’t need to take lessons from the presentation of darts.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Iranu

The_Abbott wrote:So basically no ROS, MJW or Hoggins on teh match table! These old farts are the past!!

Also, why dress smart when you can dress like a loser.

BEAT IT JUDD!

He’s obviously talking more about the likes of Ken and Jimmy who haven’t done anything for years.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby cupotee

didn't read the link because i can't be bothered sorry but i'm guessing he didn't include the point of investing in facilities for youngsters to get realistic access to playing conditions that he's as familiar with like the back of his hand , my guess if true is because he doesn't want these youngsters making inroads on his very knowledge and experience of playing snooker , there ya go .

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby badtemperedcyril

I don't really think the vast majority of people, young or old give a toss about what the players wear and just accept that waistcoats and bow ties are just "what a snooker player wears". Television viewing figures are presently healthy compared with other sports, given the amount of channels and platforms available now - there is so much more choice... hundreds of channels, netflix, prime etc... Do young people prefer Twenty20 cricket (I'm not saying they do, btw) just because they wear colourful trackies instead of traditional cream flannels? NO, of course not. They may be more attracted to that format of cricket but its because its faster and more dashing but nothing to do with the dress.

I think Judd is failing to notice the big problem snooker has in the UK: a falling number of participants.
Clubs are closing in towns and cities at an alarming rate. Does he have any ideas as to how that might be addressed?

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Iranu

cupotee wrote:didn't read the link because i can't be bothered sorry but i'm guessing he didn't include the point of investing in facilities for youngsters to get realistic access to playing conditions that he's as familiar with like the back of his hand , my guess if true is because he doesn't want these youngsters making inroads on his very knowledge and experience of playing snooker , there ya go .

I have to be honest, I’m not sure why you keep banging this drum. Did young players have better access to pro conditions in previous generations? Did Judd not ply his trade on club tables as a youngster?

Obviously, ideally conditions would be much closer to pro level nationwide but surely the decline of the amateur game is a much bigger factor? And the decline of kids taking up snooker? Table conditions can be perfect but if there are no kids playing on them...

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby cupotee

Iranu wrote:
cupotee wrote:didn't read the link because i can't be bothered sorry but i'm guessing he didn't include the point of investing in facilities for youngsters to get realistic access to playing conditions that he's as familiar with like the back of his hand , my guess if true is because he doesn't want these youngsters making inroads on his very knowledge and experience of playing snooker , there ya go .

I have to be honest, I’m not sure why you keep banging this drum. Did young players have better access to pro conditions in previous generations? Did Judd not ply his trade on club tables as a youngster?

Obviously, ideally conditions would be much closer to pro level nationwide but surely the decline of the amateur game is a much bigger factor? And the decline of kids taking up snooker? Table conditions can be perfect but if there are no kids playing on them...


judd trump is from bristol yet he practices at the exclusive grove academy in romford , similarly jack lisowski's from gloucestershire and practices at the same place , how did they get there and why aren't local players from that area practicing there , i think o sullivan practiced there for years too but not sure on that , interestingly he lives close to there , high street clubs can't realistically afford to acquire and properly maintain pro tables , its probably unrealistic even in a best case scenario to expect high street clubs to do so .

i find it interesting that these top players never mention access to pro tables that youngsters would need to acquire familiarity with pro conditions to properly understand the game and gain interest , isn't that the point of what he was saying , there's no point i don't mean you whining about rod lawler and his like qualifying from q school when youngsters aren't getting access to a pro set up , why should they be expected to compete when its too expensive , it isn't about declining interest its simply to expensive to oust the lawlers and mcleods and bring down the average age of the top 16 from what is it like 40 .

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby cupotee

Dan-cat wrote:I hear you Cupotee, but doubtful that players like Trump / Lisowski / Ronnie got access to tournament tables until they were already established in the game. They managed?


didn't o sullivans dad by a house across the road with a bigger garden so that he could install a pro ? table for ronnie to practice on ? and i don't know the details of o sullivans practice access through the years but i know he was a member of the grove for i think ages as well .

just to recap , i don't begrudge anyone with access to the best or very good facilities its just that it makes a huge difference if you don't know , its a total waste of time and money trying to become a pro if you're not fully familiar with a pro spec or v similar set up .
Last edited by cupotee on 09 Apr 2021, edited 1 time in total.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Jester82

Young folks do not have the attention span for Snooker. With Darts you can drink yourself to death and behave obnoxiously, while Snooker is more gentle and worldly. To some it might seem almost dull.
You don't see fighting like you do in the football stadium, flip a birdie and what not. And there is no real controversy in Snooker beyond sb. wearing his bow tie incorrectly. It does not make any headlines. And the players who participate aren't any interesting characters when you walk around looking like a penguin.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Dan-cat

Jester82 wrote:Young folks do not have the attention span for Snooker. With Darts you can drink yourself to death and behave obnoxiously, while Snooker is more gentle and worldly. To some it might seem almost dull.
You don't see fighting like you do in the football stadium, flip a birdie and what not. And there is no real controversy in Snooker beyond sb. wearing his bow tie incorrectly. It does not make any headlines. And the players who participate aren't any interesting characters when you walk around looking like a penguin.


It's true - smart phones / the internet have killed attention spans.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Iranu

cupotee wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:I hear you Cupotee, but doubtful that players like Trump / Lisowski / Ronnie got access to tournament tables until they were already established in the game. They managed?


didn't o sullivans dad by a house across the road with a bigger garden so that he could install a pro ? table for ronnie to practice on ? and i don't know the details of o sullivans practice access through the years but i know he was a member of the grove for i think ages as well .

Yeah Ronnie’s dad did do that but that’s very much an exception. One top player out of dozens.

How did Ronnie get to practise at the Grove? Was it because he was so good? Surely there were pro players practising there at that time?

The likes of Willo grew up playing in working men’s clubs against adult amateurs on tables that obviously would have been nothing like pro standard.

I don’t see how pros having access to pro practice conditions over young players is a problem?

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby mantorok

Iranu wrote:
mantorok wrote:It's what older people like, a younger person is not going to understand the nostalgia. I also agree, I thought Hearn would understand this given how he attracted a younger audience to Darts, but then you can play Darts in front of 10,000 people in a large bar - simples.

You can't do that in Snooker, but what you can do is characterise the players better, give them a brand, have their nicknames branded on their clothes, create hype around their personality and style of game. That's something he could do, viewers invest in players more than anything these days, put the players at the forefront and market the rubbish of them.

BBC/ITV do this already, but you need to ramp it up significantly, you need to go over the top, make a splash, not just some cheesy interview.

Watch the build up on any Sky Sports Darts event, they are absolute bucking masters at building hype, they have an outstanding production team that simply knocks it out of the park, exquisite video editing and modern music used for maximum impact, and it works, it's totally over the top, but it works.

I think that would be a start imo

Do we actually know that young people don’t watch snooker? It seems to me that Judd’s making a link between something he’s assuming (young people don’t watch snooker) and something he personally dislikes (the dress code).

Putting nicknames on the players’ clothes would be tacky as buck. Snooker already tries way too hard to attach nicknames to players that haven’t earned them.

As much as they’ve often been lumped together, snooker is NOT like darts as a sport or an event. Being over the top and bombastic works in darts because the crowd is bombastic as well and treats it as an excuse to get snake hissed and buck about. Snooker’s completely different.

Snooker doesn’t need to take lessons from the presentation of darts.


I'm not saying to emulate it verbatim, I'm saying they could learn a lot about marketing players and upping their production, which to this day, is still very outdated.

Darts also had die-hard fans, the ones who are the first to claim the rows of tables at the front, are at least 50, some knocking on 70+. Yes there are many young fans too and it's a great piss-up, I'm sure I wouldn't be wrong in suggesting that there are some snooker fans who like to chuck back a few when they go to a tournament. The core audience doesn't give a rubbish about what's tacky or not, they want to watch the sport, the rest is just candy to entice an otherwise disinterested audience, it's a modern audience and I think they could do better at capturing it by moving with the times. No-one would begrudge these peripheral changes.

Now of course we are debating this because Judd "thinks" a younger audience is not being captured, I don't know where that's true or not, but what I will say is we're wise enough to see through the marketing crap, the tackiness of it or what not, but it doesn't alter the sport that's being played, it can, however go a little further to promoting itself and making it look less like a 1920's dinner party.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby mantorok

Dan-cat wrote:
Jester82 wrote:Young folks do not have the attention span for Snooker. With Darts you can drink yourself to death and behave obnoxiously, while Snooker is more gentle and worldly. To some it might seem almost dull.
You don't see fighting like you do in the football stadium, flip a birdie and what not. And there is no real controversy in Snooker beyond sb. wearing his bow tie incorrectly. It does not make any headlines. And the players who participate aren't any interesting characters when you walk around looking like a penguin.


It's true - smart phones / the internet have killed attention spans.


Tell me about it, Tik Tok is abhorrent, kids aren't interested in anything that lasts more than a minute.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Iranu

Dan-cat wrote:
Jester82 wrote:Young folks do not have the attention span for Snooker. With Darts you can drink yourself to death and behave obnoxiously, while Snooker is more gentle and worldly. To some it might seem almost dull.
You don't see fighting like you do in the football stadium, flip a birdie and what not. And there is no real controversy in Snooker beyond sb. wearing his bow tie incorrectly. It does not make any headlines. And the players who participate aren't any interesting characters when you walk around looking like a penguin.


It's true - smart phones / the internet have killed attention spans.

I think this is bullocks, personally. It’s not that attention spans are shorter, it’s that there are a million more things competing for that attention.

The lack of characters is also nonsense. 80s nostalgia vastly overestimates how much players back then showed personality - we only see the highlights now. The winks, the jokes. You could easily put together similar highlight reels from any decade since.

Check out an interview from Ronnie, MJW, Gilbert, even the likes of Lisowski and you’ll see there are loads of characters. Follow their Twitters and you’ll see it even more.

buck, Yan Bingtao speaks limited English but when asked what he’d buy with his Masters winnings his reply was a Louis Vuitton handbag for his girlfriend. A funny response from a guy who hasn’t even mastered the language.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby cupotee

Iranu wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:I hear you Cupotee, but doubtful that players like Trump / Lisowski / Ronnie got access to tournament tables until they were already established in the game. They managed?


didn't o sullivans dad by a house across the road with a bigger garden so that he could install a pro ? table for ronnie to practice on ? and i don't know the details of o sullivans practice access through the years but i know he was a member of the grove for i think ages as well .

Yeah Ronnie’s dad did do that but that’s very much an exception. One top player out of dozens.

How did Ronnie get to practise at the Grove? Was it because he was so good? Surely there were pro players practising there at that time?

The likes of Willo grew up playing in working men’s clubs against adult amateurs on tables that obviously would have been nothing like pro standard.

I don’t see how pros having access to pro practice conditions over young players is a problem?


i don't know how many tables there are across britain that respectably replicate pro conditions but it has to be very few indeed , if you've never played on pro tables before its like an assault on your senses especially if you're playing against a player much more experienced and a referee behind you , the difference is huge , laughably huge really .
i don't understand people , top pro's or anyone else complaining about the lack of interest or the lack of new young players coming through when there's virtually nowhere for youngsters to get familiarity of playing pro snooker in england , thats the main point everything else is a sideshow .

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby mantorok

Jester82 wrote:Young folks do not have the attention span for Snooker. With Darts you can drink yourself to death and behave obnoxiously, while Snooker is more gentle and worldly. To some it might seem almost dull.
You don't see fighting like you do in the football stadium, flip a birdie and what not. And there is no real controversy in Snooker beyond sb. wearing his bow tie incorrectly. It does not make any headlines. And the players who participate aren't any interesting characters when you walk around looking like a penguin.


You could, ever been to the Darts? The first time I went I expected it to be a blood bath, turns out it's the complete opposite, security is tighter than a ducks bottom, and everyone I met were well behaved, mature, it was dominated by older fans than I expected (50+), were really into darts itself, and I only saw 1 person who was too drunk to stand. Only a fraction of the audience carried on drinking after the evenings events, the majority just had a few friendly pints in the evening.

I do agree with everything else you've said though.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Iranu

cupotee wrote:i don't know how many tables there are across britain that respectably replicate pro conditions but it has to be very few indeed , if you've never played on pro tables before its like an assault on your senses especially if you're playing against a player much more experienced and a referee behind you , the difference is huge , laughably huge really .
i don't understand people , top pro's or anyone else complaining about the lack of interest or the lack of new young players coming through when there's virtually nowhere for youngsters to get familiarity of playing pro snooker in england , thats the main point everything else is a sideshow .

But again, this isn’t new. All young players have had to deal with the same thing over the years. Unless your suggesting there was easier access to pro conditions in years gone by?

With Q School specifically, maybe anybody who hasn’t been on the pro tour before could get a week at the venue prior to the tournament to practise on the tables or something.