2021/22 Snooker Island World Cup

I'm playing Saturday, I should also get at least 5 frames in but we shall see.

I played all my frames today and have sent my 5 highest break scores to Iranu. I am hopeful of avoiding the whitewash!

Belgium's scores are in

chengdufan wrote:1st round:
Palestine (1) v Cornwall (8)
North America (4) v Belgium (5)
Sheffield (3) v Coventry (6)
South-East England (2) v Southwest China (7)

Scores in from Belgium, Coventry and Southwest China

We should have our first match completed by the end of day this side of the pond. I can't get much table time these days, only two or three frames a week and I never count the first (I am not much for practice time these days, no point and too busy, so the first frame of a session is my "practice"). I now have three frames recorded, two to go. My game is all right, but my confidence level is lower than whale crap. Every pot seems a struggle. I will make claim to the highest break of the tournament so far though I expect that it is not likely to stand very long:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJhqBGzsRrE


Rekoons will especially appreciate the Red along the Black cushion shown in the thumbnail.

acesinc wrote:We should have our first match completed by the end of day this side of the pond. I can't get much table time these days, only two or three frames a week and I never count the first (I am not much for practice time these days, no point and too busy, so the first frame of a session is my "practice"). I now have three frames recorded, two to go. My game is all right, but my confidence level is lower than whale crap. Every pot seems a struggle. I will make claim to the highest break of the tournament so far though I expect that it is not likely to stand very long:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJhqBGzsRrE


Rekoons will especially appreciate the Red along the Black cushion shown in the thumbnail.

Really enjoyed watching this, thanks for sharing! The red along the cushion was impressive, no doubt, given the tightness of the pockets. I enjoyed watching the black which followed more though Not only was it a very difficult long pot with the cue ball tight on the cushion, you judged the pace perfectly to get past the pink and have choice of two reds

Let me know when you’re ready for me to reveal your scores, Chengdu.

Great video ACESINC, wish I could play like that.

acesinc wrote:Rekoons will especially appreciate the Red along the Black cushion shown in the thumbnail.

That was exactly what I was thinking and going to write!
also the little stun to free black and pink was nice.

I'm not playing too badly lately but it's been a while since I managed a 20 in match frames, I really depend too much on easy positional shots. I was 25 behind with only the colours left a while ago and managed to pot yellow to blue with decent position but from blue to pink the white rolled 10 cm too far and landed bang on the cushion, missed pink and lost the frame I landed plum on the black though.

Iranu wrote:Let me know when you’re ready for me to reveal your scores, Chengdu.

Whenever Badsnookerplayer posts his scores here

Juddernaut88 wrote:Great video ACESINC, wish I could play like that.

Thanks, Judders, I appreciate the sentiment. In proper humility though, I don't consider myself to be a particularly "skilled" player. By that, I mean I don't feel like I have consistent textbook form. I am one of the worst actual potters in my club. The reason I do respectably well is: a) my cue ball control is far better than most (and by that I mean far better than most snooker players overall, not just in my club. I think I am a fair judge as I have played against several hundred opponents over the years.) and b) my table analysis/shot selection is top drawer.

I have a mantra that I call upon occasionally and that is, "Most players play at the wrong stroke most of the time, and they will never understand why." My point is that without any improvement to your physical skills whatsoever you can improve your overall game if you choose the correct shot for a situation and understand why. To accomplish this requires critical watching of the professional game, not just for entertainment. If you are a club player, I always recommend watching the old YouTube videos from the 70's and 80's because the tables you see there will probably play much closer to your club table than do the modern television tables. Watch a video and regularly pause during the break so that you can analyze the position of the balls and decide in your mind exactly what stroke the pro will choose to play and why. Then watch and learn from what he actually does. Eventually, you properly learn WHY to play a shot in a particular way and that will make a huge difference in your game. You will notice in my break that every stroke was struck purposely with precise intention except for the Blue in middle which was obviously a hit 'n' hope type situation to make something of those Reds. To learn those skills is in your brain, how you think about the game much more so than how physically skilled you are when striking the ball. You can do it at home without even a cue in your hand.

Keep at it, keep an open mind, and you will get there!

Take note of what he says Judders.

There's really 2 equally important aspects to every shot you play: the pot and the position. always play with a certain position in mind, be it for a next ball or fo an area where you want the white to send. Never just play the pot and forget about the position or this game will bite you and the white will go in off or land somewhere awkward all the time

in playing for position as well you have to strike the white in a certain way (soft, hard, top, screw,...) so you have decided, set your mind and there is no last split second doubt creeping in your mind and arm, you attempt the pot, and attempt it in a certain way. I believe this can cause you to strike better.

when you don't see where the next ball should be coming from, just assess the natural path the white will take and check it doesn't go close to a pocket. this alone will save you many fouls if you make it a habit.

edit: when I say always play for a certain position in mind, it doesn't even matter if you achieve the position you want, even when you know what is the correct shot to play but you know that you are unlikely to finsih where you want because you can't screw back that far, just try it within your capabilities and accept you will end up way short, but at least you played the correct shot the correct way, you will make less errors in letting the white run loose. thats my opinion.

Perfectly stated, Rekoons.

I am set to get my final frame in shortly. Will just post my scores directly into the thread in a couple hours.

North America vs. Belgium is complete. I will post scores here as I understand Rekoons' are already locked in. In descending order over 5 frames:

36
19
16
15
14

Good luck and well played to Belgium!

acesinc wrote:North America vs. Belgium is complete. I will post scores here as I understand Rekoons' are already locked in. In descending order over 5 frames:

36
19
16
15
14

Good luck and well played to Belgium!

rekoons wrote:Hi chengdu, here are my mini breaks, balls weren't nicely positioned a lot, which is what I need to be able to make some bigger breaks.

17, 15, 11, 13 and 12

Thanks.

The top 5 breaks were:
ACES: 36 | 19 | 16
Rekoons: 17

Result:

North America (4) 3-1 Belgium (5)

Congratulations to North America who are through to the semi-final of the World Cup.
Belgium become the early favourites to claim the National Cup.

North America will play the winner of the Palestine Cornwall tie in the semi-final of the World Cup, while Belgium will face the loser of that match in the semi-final of the National Cup.

I think the advice from Aces and Rekoons is spot on. I would say though that I think I already follow all of that to the letter, but still struggle to make 10.

As well as doing everything right, you still need some talent. I won't be modest and can say that I am easily one of the best players among those 5-10 colleagues of mine who know how to hold a cue and can pot a ball (There are many others in my office who don't play at all). I'd say I'm the second best player in the group.
You also need the opportunity to play regularly, which I don't have unfortunately...

What I'm trying to get at here is that we should be aware how good the fellas who have been entering these competitions and getting 10+ 20+ 30+ 50+ regularly are!
And then you consider how weak they are compared to the hundreds of amateurs entering Q School or playing around China. And then consider how much better the 'numpties' and 'journeymen' of the professional game are.

The pros we watch on TV make it look easy. It's not.

Cornwall's scores are in.

Playing Saturday with my matchstick size cue.

RunningSide wrote:Playing Saturday with my matchstick size cue.

You playing on Johnny’s table then?

Edit, the photo didn't work

Iranu wrote:

RunningSide wrote:Playing Saturday with my matchstick size cue.

You playing on Johnny’s table then?

Ten incher?

RunningSide wrote:Playing Saturday with my matchstick size cue.

"3. Cue
A cue shall be not less than 3 ft (914 mm) in length and shall
show no change from the traditional tapered shape and form,
with a tip, used to strike the cue-ball, secured to the thinner end."

Careful there, RunningSide. I wouldn't want to see a walkover due to an infringement.

chengdufan wrote:...

What I'm trying to get at here is that we should be aware how good the fellas who have been entering these competitions and getting 10+ 20+ 30+ 50+ regularly are!
And then you consider how weak they are compared to the hundreds of amateurs entering Q School or playing around China. And then consider how much better the 'numpties' and 'journeymen' of the professional game are.

The pros we watch on TV make it look easy. It's not.

Well said, ChengduFan. With this, you have put us all through the Total Perspective Vortex, that of the Frogstar system, if I remember my Douglas Adams correctly. I shall flop forward now out of the Vortex with every shred of self-respect and dignity taken from me.

acesinc wrote:

RunningSide wrote:Playing Saturday with my matchstick size cue.

"3. Cue
A cue shall be not less than 3 ft (914 mm) in length and shall
show no change from the traditional tapered shape and form,
with a tip, used to strike the cue-ball, secured to the thinner end."

Careful there, RunningSide. I wouldn't want to see a walkover due to an infringement.

This ok?

chengdufan wrote:...

rekoons wrote:Hi chengdu, here are my mini breaks, balls weren't nicely positioned a lot, which is what I need to be able to make some bigger breaks.

17, 15, 11, 13 and 12

Thanks.

...

Rekoons, what I take away from your scoreline is that you are making four ball breaks just about every single frame. That is great. ChengduFan regularly mentions "10+" breaks, but to be clear, what we are really talking about is four ball breaks. The maths is simple enough to understand....10-16 four ball, 17-24 six ball, 25-32 eight ball, etc. Do you know the difference between a four ball break in the teens and an eight or ten ball break in the 30's in terms of table analysis/management and shot selection? Nothin'. Four ball breaks means you are seeing the correct "next shot" and moving the White around appropriately. And if you are doing that with regularity, then you already have the skills to run 8 or 10 in a row. All you need to do is to actually make the pots and THAT is the physical skills portion of it that Chengdu is talking about in one of his posts above. Obviously, one must have reasonable consistency in potting skills, but one does NOT need to be potting them off the lamp shades all day, every day in order to run the occasional 20+ or 30+.

Anybody, and I mean anybody, can make two ball breaks, aka single digit breaks. I witness far, far, far too many incredible breaks with an end value of 1 point. On a much too regular basis, I witness an opponent line up a fantastically difficult pot of a Red, ponder, get down, get up, walk around some more, then finally, pot a superlative Red that would make Joe Davis roll over in his grave. And the White does nothing. The position left on Colour (if we can even use the term "position" since the mere concept obviously had no bearing on the shot selection anyway) is hideous; even worse than the difficulty level of the original pot of Red. And of course, the break ends at 1. Happens way, way, way too much.

By demonstrating ability to compile four balls on a regular basis, you clearly have the skills to run 30+ on an occasional basis. 40+ and better is a whole different game because that will generally require not only analyzing the lay of the balls on the table, but in fact manipulating the balls on the table. Strokes like the Pink/Black nudge, or bumping balls off cushion. So getting to the four ball break step is probably the biggest leap in skill that most snooker players will ever reach. For ChengduFan and Juddernaut, there is a way to judge if you are at least improving toward this goal even before you actually reach the goal. And it goes back to watching the pros from the 70's and 80's and it is this......take note of EVERY stroke you play, did you plan and account for EVERY ball that moved on the table surface when you played the stroke you decided on? In general for most shots of course the only balls to move should be the cue ball and the object ball. Occasionally, you will need to plan for nudges but you should have them well-visualized in your mind before you play them. And learn from your results. If your strokes regularly result in other balls being moved around that you had not envisioned and/or planned for, then chances are that you aren't doing something correctly. Once you understand and employ this, the four ball breaks will start happening often.

As example again going back to my break above (not to self-congratulate or harp on it, it is a good break, but far from my best; it is just convenient because the video is there), looking at each stroke, only cue and object moved on every stroke except 1) the Blue in middle which was intended to develop Reds without specific outcome, 2) Pink/Black nudge to put them both in pottable positions, and 3) last pot of Black which was the mistake to end break. In my mind, the intent was to stun past that Red to leave it into the opposite corner. I failed by adding a touch too much screw.

I think that most players do not realize a fundamental paradigm of Professional Snooker gameplay. When a professional player is on a break, they will rarely play cut shots thinner than 3/4 ball. If they purposely leave for themselves a thinner cut than that, then it is far more difficult to calculate positional outcomes because the White will go careening around the table and possibly impact other balls with unpredictable results. 3/4 ball and thicker means you can stun the cue ball the way you want: top, screw, soft, strong. Rekoons, I think you will agree that this is exactly what you meant when you mentioned assessing the "natural path" of White when you were in a situation that you just cannot exactly assess what your precise positional play is going to be. This is often the case when you leave yourself a half-ball or a thin cut. If it is not possible to know exactly where the White will end up after your stroke, at the very least, be very damn sure of where it will NOT end up, i.e., in a pocket for an in off foul, as you mentioned.

Anyone who thoroughly understands these principles is surely on the path to becoming a four ball breaker. And anyone who is a four ball breaker (or better) obviously thoroughly understands these principles (either objectively, or possibly intuitively). And the next step after consistent four ball breaks is the occasional six- and eight-ball, 20+ and 30+. The steps between are significant, but really not all that large.

acesinc wrote:

RunningSide wrote:Playing Saturday with my matchstick size cue.

"3. Cue
A cue shall be not less than 3 ft (914 mm) in length and shall
show no change from the traditional tapered shape and form,
with a tip, used to strike the cue-ball, secured to the thinner end."

Careful there, RunningSide. I wouldn't want to see a walkover due to an infringement.

Slightly exaggerated size,not first time,very old cue,good for pool but stretching for shots between baulk and blue spot.still regreting mardy sell of fav cue,not playing can't miss mate,so hopeful for tomorrow.

acesinc wrote:

chengdufan wrote:...

rekoons wrote:Hi chengdu, here are my mini breaks, balls weren't nicely positioned a lot, which is what I need to be able to make some bigger breaks.

17, 15, 11, 13 and 12

Thanks.

...

Rekoons, what I take away from your scoreline is that you are making four ball breaks just about every single frame. That is great. ChengduFan regularly mentions "10+" breaks, but to be clear, what we are really talking about is four ball breaks. The maths is simple enough to understand....10-16 four ball, 17-24 six ball, 25-32 eight ball, etc. Do you know the difference between a four ball break in the teens and an eight or ten ball break in the 30's in terms of table analysis/management and shot selection? Nothin'. Four ball breaks means you are seeing the correct "next shot" and moving the White around appropriately. And if you are doing that with regularity, then you already have the skills to run 8 or 10 in a row. All you need to do is to actually make the pots and THAT is the physical skills portion of it that Chengdu is talking about in one of his posts above. Obviously, one must have reasonable consistency in potting skills, but one does NOT need to be potting them off the lamp shades all day, every day in order to run the occasional 20+ or 30+.

Anybody, and I mean anybody, can make two ball breaks, aka single digit breaks. I witness far, far, far too many incredible breaks with an end value of 1 point. On a much too regular basis, I witness an opponent line up a fantastically difficult pot of a Red, ponder, get down, get up, walk around some more, then finally, pot a superlative Red that would make Joe Davis roll over in his grave. And the White does nothing. The position left on Colour (if we can even use the term "position" since the mere concept obviously had no bearing on the shot selection anyway) is hideous; even worse than the difficulty level of the original pot of Red. And of course, the break ends at 1. Happens way, way, way too much.

By demonstrating ability to compile four balls on a regular basis, you clearly have the skills to run 30+ on an occasional basis. 40+ and better is a whole different game because that will generally require not only analyzing the lay of the balls on the table, but in fact manipulating the balls on the table. Strokes like the Pink/Black nudge, or bumping balls off cushion. So getting to the four ball break step is probably the biggest leap in skill that most snooker players will ever reach. For ChengduFan and Juddernaut, there is a way to judge if you are at least improving toward this goal even before you actually reach the goal. And it goes back to watching the pros from the 70's and 80's and it is this......take note of EVERY stroke you play, did you plan and account for EVERY ball that moved on the table surface when you played the stroke you decided on? In general for most shots of course the only balls to move should be the cue ball and the object ball. Occasionally, you will need to plan for nudges but you should have them well-visualized in your mind before you play them. And learn from your results. If your strokes regularly result in other balls being moved around that you had not envisioned and/or planned for, then chances are that you aren't doing something correctly. Once you understand and employ this, the four ball breaks will start happening often.

As example again going back to my break above (not to self-congratulate or harp on it, it is a good break, but far from my best; it is just convenient because the video is there), looking at each stroke, only cue and object moved on every stroke except 1) the Blue in middle which was intended to develop Reds without specific outcome, 2) Pink/Black nudge to put them both in pottable positions, and 3) last pot of Black which was the mistake to end break. In my mind, the intent was to stun past that Red to leave it into the opposite corner. I failed by adding a touch too much screw.

I think that most players do not realize a fundamental paradigm of Professional Snooker gameplay. When a professional player is on a break, they will rarely play cut shots thinner than 3/4 ball. If they purposely leave for themselves a thinner cut than that, then it is far more difficult to calculate positional outcomes because the White will go careening around the table and possibly impact other balls with unpredictable results. 3/4 ball and thicker means you can stun the cue ball the way you want: top, screw, soft, strong. Rekoons, I think you will agree that this is exactly what you meant when you mentioned assessing the "natural path" of White when you were in a situation that you just cannot exactly assess what your precise positional play is going to be. This is often the case when you leave yourself a half-ball or a thin cut. If it is not possible to know exactly where the White will end up after your stroke, at the very least, be very damn sure of where it will NOT end up, i.e., in a pocket for an in off foul, as you mentioned.

Anyone who thoroughly understands these principles is surely on the path to becoming a four ball breaker. And anyone who is a four ball breaker (or better) obviously thoroughly understands these principles (either objectively, or possibly intuitively). And the next step after consistent four ball breaks is the occasional six- and eight-ball, 20+ and 30+. The steps between are significant, but really not all that large.

Needed 2 toilet breaks to read that Ace.

RunningSide wrote:

acesinc wrote:

chengdufan wrote:...

rekoons wrote:...

...

...

Needed 2 toilet breaks to read that Ace.

That's a short one for me. A few of my epic posts you couldn't finish without a nap.