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Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:Thanks for ensuring I won't be watching any of that rubbish next season on Skysports Marco <ok>


eastenders for you lol

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Casey

Bourne wrote:Thanks for ensuring I won't be watching any of that rubbish next season on Skysports Marco <ok>


A bit of a sickner to be honest, as i say if he had lost it any other way than that it would be fine. I think its going to take some getting over for Mark.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Monique

Well sorry guys, but Marco Fu was awsome. It takes some guts and willpower to fight the way he did and the least we as snooker fans can do is to give him credit for that.
He's not an enthralling player but he's won it and totally deserves his spot in the PL.

As for Mark Allen, being a champion is also about coping with defeats and learning to lose, even this way. If he gets over it, which I expect him to do, he will be all the stronger. And I have no doubts he will be in PL some day, and rather sooner than later methinks.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby N_Castle07

well done Fu for winning this event twice. I think he will surprise a few in the PL this year he has had plenty experiance being there now.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Roland

He hasn't won this event twice, last year he was given a wildcard. As for surprising a few in the event proper, well he'll surprise me if he wins more than 1 match to be honest. As I said earlier, he's no shot clock player.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:He hasn't won this event twice, last year he was given a wildcard. As for surprising a few in the event proper, well he'll surprise me if he wins more than 1 match to be honest. As I said earlier, he's no shot clock player.

Fu has won the event, once, in 2003, before shot-clock was used. He indeed struggles with the shot clock. Marco's average natural shot time is not far from the 25 seconds mark which makes it difficult of course. He has to force on his natural pace to cope.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Rocket_ron

Sonny wrote:He hasn't won this event twice, last year he was given a wildcard. As for surprising a few in the event proper, well he'll surprise me if he wins more than 1 match to be honest. As I said earlier, he's no shot clock player.

well said sonny <ok>

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Roland

Monique wrote:
Sonny wrote:He hasn't won this event twice, last year he was given a wildcard. As for surprising a few in the event proper, well he'll surprise me if he wins more than 1 match to be honest. As I said earlier, he's no shot clock player.

Fu has won the event, once, in 2003, before shot-clock was used. He indeed struggles with the shot clock. Marco's average natural shot time is not far from the 25 seconds mark which makes it difficult of course. He has to force on his natural pace to cope.


Well if anything at least his inclusion will demonstrate to all who bother to notice these things that the shot clock is far from fair and should definitely never be introduced into normal tournament play.

And sorry I thought the comment about him winning the event twice was in reference to the Championship League. Either way it's wrong, he's won the PL once and the CL once. Of all the starters in the CL from day 1, his isn't the name I would've picked. Maybe it's only fair to have shot clock conditions in the CL as that's what the event they're qualifying for is all about?

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:
Monique wrote:
Sonny wrote:He hasn't won this event twice, last year he was given a wildcard. As for surprising a few in the event proper, well he'll surprise me if he wins more than 1 match to be honest. As I said earlier, he's no shot clock player.

Fu has won the event, once, in 2003, before shot-clock was used. He indeed struggles with the shot clock. Marco's average natural shot time is not far from the 25 seconds mark which makes it difficult of course. He has to force on his natural pace to cope.


Well if anything at least his inclusion will demonstrate to all who bother to notice these things that the shot clock is far from fair and should definitely never be introduced into normal tournament play.

And sorry I thought the comment about him winning the event twice was in reference to the Championship League. Either way it's wrong, he's won the PL once and the CL once. Of all the starters in the CL from day 1, his isn't the name I would've picked. Maybe it's only fair to have shot clock conditions in the CL as that's what the event they're qualifying for is all about?


I do find it bizarre that the CL is not played under shot-clock; it would be logical to do it. I've been told that the reason it's not, is because the Crondon venue is a two table set, even if it does not show on streaming, and it would be difficult to have the beep going in there, without the risk to disturb the other play in progress.

As for the shot clock being "unfair", well that's a different debate. It's certain that it does not suit certain players, who are naturally slow. It adds a level of stress for them. But now stress is also induced on fluent players by disruptive tactics, unecessary slowing down and more... even if the rules theoretically take care of the situation they are difficult to apply under most circumstances. Short formats are "unfair" to players who are slow to settle. Long formats are "unfair" on players with short attention spans or older ones. You could go on.
For me "shot-clock" is one form of the game, one particularly suitable for broadcasting. IF we had enough tournaments, in all sorts of formats and forms, so that, over the season all players would find themselves comfy in some events and maybe less comfy in others, but overall things even themselves, then, and only then, I wouldn't mind to have shot-clock in one or two official tournaments. It asks for quick thinking, a cool head, it keeps the game dynamic and positive.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Roland

For variety it's ok, like golfers playing different courses or tennis being played on different surfaces. But some people seem to think it's what's snooker needs full stop. The day every event moves to shot clock is the day I close this site down. And that's a promise.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:For variety it's ok, like golfers playing different courses or tennis being played on different surfaces. But some people seem to think it's what's snooker needs full stop. The day every event moves to shot clock is the day I close this site down. And that's a promise.


That would be nonsense, I agree. And I doubt any plans for that exist except in Seifer's mind and in the fears of some ill-informed fans.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Monique

N_Castle07 wrote:Sorry i thought Fu had won the CL twice i got him mixed up with Perry who has won it once also.


Yes and nobody would have picked Perry to play in it, or expected him to do well. But he did. Really gave his opponents a few good games there.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:
Sonny wrote:
Monique wrote:
Sonny wrote:He hasn't won this event twice, last year he was given a wildcard. As for surprising a few in the event proper, well he'll surprise me if he wins more than 1 match to be honest. As I said earlier, he's no shot clock player.

Fu has won the event, once, in 2003, before shot-clock was used. He indeed struggles with the shot clock. Marco's average natural shot time is not far from the 25 seconds mark which makes it difficult of course. He has to force on his natural pace to cope.


Well if anything at least his inclusion will demonstrate to all who bother to notice these things that the shot clock is far from fair and should definitely never be introduced into normal tournament play.

And sorry I thought the comment about him winning the event twice was in reference to the Championship League. Either way it's wrong, he's won the PL once and the CL once. Of all the starters in the CL from day 1, his isn't the name I would've picked. Maybe it's only fair to have shot clock conditions in the CL as that's what the event they're qualifying for is all about?


I do find it bizarre that the CL is not played under shot-clock; it would be logical to do it. I've been told that the reason it's not, is because the Crondon venue is a two table set, even if it does not show on streaming, and it would be difficult to have the beep going in there, without the risk to disturb the other play in progress.

As for the shot clock being "unfair", well that's a different debate. It's certain that it does not suit certain players, who are naturally slow. It adds a level of stress for them. But now stress is also induced on fluent players by disruptive tactics, unecessary slowing down and more... even if the rules theoretically take care of the situation they are difficult to apply under most circumstances. Short formats are "unfair" to players who are slow to settle. Long formats are "unfair" on players with short attention spans or older ones. You could go on.
For me "shot-clock" is one form of the game, one particularly suitable for broadcasting. IF we had enough tournaments, in all sorts of formats and forms, so that, over the season all players would find themselves comfy in some events and maybe less comfy in others, but overall things even themselves, then, and only then, I wouldn't mind to have shot-clock in one or two official tournaments. It asks for quick thinking, a cool head, it keeps the game dynamic and positive.


Dave Hendon asked matchroom about this and the answer he got was because theres 2 tables it would be shambolic having a shot clock.

monique when your at the table its your turn and your pace what you comparing it to is a player sitting down while a slow player at the table is under the same stress as a slow player playing fast.....sorry its totally different.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Alex0paul

wildJONESEYE wrote:
Monique wrote:
Sonny wrote:
Monique wrote:
Sonny wrote:He hasn't won this event twice, last year he was given a wildcard. As for surprising a few in the event proper, well he'll surprise me if he wins more than 1 match to be honest. As I said earlier, he's no shot clock player.

Fu has won the event, once, in 2003, before shot-clock was used. He indeed struggles with the shot clock. Marco's average natural shot time is not far from the 25 seconds mark which makes it difficult of course. He has to force on his natural pace to cope.


Well if anything at least his inclusion will demonstrate to all who bother to notice these things that the shot clock is far from fair and should definitely never be introduced into normal tournament play.

And sorry I thought the comment about him winning the event twice was in reference to the Championship League. Either way it's wrong, he's won the PL once and the CL once. Of all the starters in the CL from day 1, his isn't the name I would've picked. Maybe it's only fair to have shot clock conditions in the CL as that's what the event they're qualifying for is all about?


I do find it bizarre that the CL is not played under shot-clock; it would be logical to do it. I've been told that the reason it's not, is because the Crondon venue is a two table set, even if it does not show on streaming, and it would be difficult to have the beep going in there, without the risk to disturb the other play in progress.

As for the shot clock being "unfair", well that's a different debate. It's certain that it does not suit certain players, who are naturally slow. It adds a level of stress for them. But now stress is also induced on fluent players by disruptive tactics, unecessary slowing down and more... even if the rules theoretically take care of the situation they are difficult to apply under most circumstances. Short formats are "unfair" to players who are slow to settle. Long formats are "unfair" on players with short attention spans or older ones. You could go on.
For me "shot-clock" is one form of the game, one particularly suitable for broadcasting. IF we had enough tournaments, in all sorts of formats and forms, so that, over the season all players would find themselves comfy in some events and maybe less comfy in others, but overall things even themselves, then, and only then, I wouldn't mind to have shot-clock in one or two official tournaments. It asks for quick thinking, a cool head, it keeps the game dynamic and positive.


Dave Hendon asked matchroom about this and the answer he got was because theres 2 tables it would be shambolic having a shot clock.

monique when your at the table its your turn and your pace what you comparing it to is a player sitting down while a slow player at the table is under the same stress as a slow player playing fast.....sorry its totally different.


Surely this rules shot clocks out ranking events then :D

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Monique

Wild, I never said it's the same kind of stress. But I say slow players who take ages over simple shots, fuss around the table interminably are inducing stress on their opponents also, albeit a different one, not so much when breakbuilding but during safety exchanges for instance. Sometimes safety is hard and thinking time is needed. But only too often it's just proscanitating and eventually taking the obvious option but only after 10 minutes (yeah i'm exagerating... )

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby GJ

Monique wrote:Wild, I never said it's the same kind of stress. But I say slow players who take ages over simple shots, fuss around the table interminably are inducing stress on their opponents also, albeit a different one, not so much when breakbuilding but during safety exchanges for instance. Sometimes safety is hard and thinking time is needed. But only too often it's just proscanitating and eventually taking the obvious option but only after 10 minutes (yeah i'm exagerating... )


robbo struggled with shot clock and he plays at a decent pace

so that kills your argument :chin:

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Bourne

Re-spotted black
First to pot it wins
1 second shot clock
Alcohol allowed and loud audience
Girls in bikinis parading with scoreboards

There, that should please some people no end.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:Spoken like a true Ronnie fan :redneck:


Actually Sonny it's a pity you are not on TSF to make some historical research there. The first time I truely went into a rant about those tactics was in 2007, in the quarters, between Ali Carter and Mark Selby. I have no doubt you would not like my post ... In total honesty I had not favorite in that match, no favorite at all. But I was truely disgusted by the way Selby "played" in the end of the match. I was there to watch snooker, not an endurance test. And sure he won it in the end. But I was so furious that I think I event went so far as to cheer on Murphy in the semis! Say it all...
Another player I dislike for this reason is Matthew Stevens sometimes, checking, rechecking, chalking, crouching, checking again, chalking again ... you know Matthew... the ball hasn't moved and wont...

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby GJ

so if a player lacks confidence and so playy slower he should be punished

what nonsense matthew was always a fluent player who has lost confidence so has become more hesitant in shot selection

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Casey

Another player I dislike for this reason is Matthew Stevens sometimes, checking, rechecking, chalking, crouching, checking again, chalking again ... you know Matthew... the ball hasn't moved and wont...


I got so frustrated when he did that against Hendry in last season Bahrain Semi, then at the end of the match he said he was surprised Hendry never got any Rhythm going <doh>

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby GJ

matthew is as genuine a snooker player as there is if anyone thinks its tactics to slow down his opponent

alll i can say them is they are talking :bs:

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Wildey

monique

i know you saying its different type of stress but it should be stressful sitting in your seat while the other player playing you dont know when your next turn can be but on the flip side of slow it can also be stresfull playing a fast player before you sit down and having a drink hes made a 30 break missed and your back at the table.

i remember in the 80s Willie Thorne lost to Tony Drago 9-5 he came off the table stating how stressful that match was he couldn't play at his pace because he felt Tony was dictating everything and Willie wasn't a slow player.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Roland

Well I'm afraid love it or hate it those tactics are 110% legit. I've had it done to me many times by players who have spotted my flow and deliberately slowed the pace of the game down. People used to do it to Jimmy all the time in the 80's. Obviously some people will hate it but personally I love watching matches when these sorts of mind games are going on. The best one was the 2009 Masters and Ronnie was the one with the longer shot time over the whole match.

I don't do it myself because it knocks me out of my rhythm unless I'm really getting pumped and feel the need to fight my way into a game but I certainly appreciate the tactic. It's no different to boxers holding each other, it doesn't look great at times but it's effective.

If you want to get rid of that side of the game then you've got to start thinking of bringing in a minimum shot time to counter those fast players who blow their opponents away at speed.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Alex0paul

GJtheaussiestud wrote:matthew is as genuine a snooker player as there is if anyone thinks its tactics to slow down his opponent

alll i can say them is they are talking :bs:


Stevens does that every time he plays, its just how he lines up a shot.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Monique

GJtheaussiestud wrote:matthew is as genuine a snooker player as there is if anyone thinks its tactics to slow down his opponent

alll i can say them is they are talking :bs:

I don't say he does it as a tactic, actually I don't think it is at all in his case, it's the way he is. It gets on my nerves nonetheless.

Re: *Championship League Winners Group 2010*

Postby Roland

In Stevens case I see it more of a sign of lack of confidence. He does take an age on some obvious shots but you can tell he's trying to talk himself into playing it rather than deliberately delaying to put off his opponent.