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Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Casey

Well there is a loss all round ie Ronnie, fans tournament.

Anyway your right, lets see what the reason is. Isn’t it all a bit strange though, the notice was taken down from the website and then no mention of it during the league. Although I thought Clive was pushing on something when he talked about how the only title Ronnie had was the Shanghai and it was next week…..then nothing, they must have been told not to talk about it.

Rumour has it Ronnie Snr is out full time next week, any truth in that?

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby SnookerFan

The problem I think, is that Ronnie has pulled out of Chinese tournaments before. Despite fans and players pining for more tournaments, he once pulled out because he was too tired to go. I remember one time even when he was World Champion, he didn't want to go to China.

His back problem might be perfectly legitimate. And if it is Hendon is bang out of line. But, you can see why people are skeptical. It's the same with the boy who cried wolf. If you pull out of Chinese tournaments a lot of times, and threaten to do it for other times, even if your back injury is perfectly legitimate, people will still wonder.

Personally I'd defend Ronnie if this was the first time it had happened, and give him the benefit of the doubt. And I don't think there's any point me giving an opinion on why he's not going. He's not going, end of. But even his most ardent fan would have to understand why some would doubt. It's not like he's usually chomping at the bit to go to China.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Casey

Here it is

"This has been a very difficult decision to make, however I have a very young family and at this moment I need to spend more time with them. I'm truly sorry to my fans in China, I love meeting and playing in front of some of the most passionate people in the world. I very much look forward to returning to China soon."

Hearn added: "It's very disappointing for his fans in China but we understand the personal reasons behind Ronnie's withdrawal."


Unfortunately this explanation will not stop Ronnie being criticised by many.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Casey

Its also logical to suggest this is the same reason why he pulled out of the EPTC1 rather than back.
I hope all is ok with his family.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Casey

Bourne wrote:How did this back story originate then ?


Because he withdrew from EPTC1 with a sore back and when he withdrew from Shanghai people assumed it was for the same reason.

As I say its logical to suggest the reason he withdrew from the event in Germany is the same as Shanghai, probably didn’t want to make it public though unless he had to.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby SnookerFan

case_master wrote:
Bourne wrote:How did this back story originate then ?


Because he withdrew from EPTC1 with a sore back and when he withdrew from Shanghai people assumed it was for the same reason.

As I say its logical to suggest the reason he withdrew from the event in Germany is the same as Shanghai, probably didn’t want to make it public though unless he had to.


Not very professional though. To claim he has a sore back when it isn't the case. They've made him and themselves look like mugs. He was clearly in no pain last night. To publish something that was clearly untrue about him on the website isn't great, and will make make people think Ronnie's story is shaky. That or World Snooker aint got a clue.

Ronnie may have a very good family reason for staying off, especially if it's true that his dad is coming out. Hard to feel sympathy though. His pulling out of these events is so commonplace, that even if it's legitimate this time, it doesn't hide the fact he doesn't like travelling much.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Wildey

Unprofesional all round but life goes on the tournament will go on.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby SnookerFan

wildJONESEYE wrote:Unprofesional all round but life goes on the tournament will go on.


Agreed. Personally, I won't miss him. Especially if his mind wasn't on family matters. He'd have only turned up and played badly. It's a shame for the Chinese fans who generally seem to hold him in high regard, but they have enough home grown talent and wildcards, they'll have somebody to cheer. Hopefully one of the Orientals will do well for them. (It may require Ding getting his head out of his bottom.) It'd be good to see Liang Wenbo go on another run.

There are players other then Ronnie, and if he can't make it, I suggest we enjoy watching them instead. I will.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Bourne

My feeling is that it's much better for the tournament that an unhappy O'Sullivan stays at home rather than an unhappy O'Sullivan plays in the tournament way below his best and stinks out the place. No one player is bigger than the sport itself, so I think this is a good decision for everyone.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Wildey

Bourne wrote:My feeling is that it's much better for the tournament that an unhappy O'Sullivan stays at home rather than an unhappy O'Sullivan plays in the tournament way below his best and stinks out the place. No one player is bigger than the sport itself, so I think this is a good decision for everyone.

yes your right players come and players go but the sport will survive.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Casey

Bourne wrote:My feeling is that it's much better for the tournament that an unhappy O'Sullivan stays at home rather than an unhappy O'Sullivan plays in the tournament way below his best and stinks out the place. No one player is bigger than the sport itself, so I think this is a good decision for everyone.


Stink the place out <laugh>

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby SnookerFan

wildJONESEYE wrote:yes your right players come and players go but the sport will survive.


Unfortunately, at the moment Ronnie could be considered bigger then the sport. Okay, the Chinese tournaments will sell out when a local lad is playing. But over here, Ronnie is the only one who sells out tournaments. If Ronnie retired, the sport would take a massive hit. At a time when it can't afford to.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Monique

The back story was reported by Rolf Kalb on the German Eurosport forum but we haven't seen anything official on WPBSA site or on ROS site. I'm afraid we will never know what exactly the situation was there. Except that someting unexpected must have happened because only the day before Ronnie had asked for his match with Jimmy Robertson to be scheduled earlier if Jimmy agreed. Why bother to do that if he didn't intend to come anyway? Ronnie has suffered from back problems in the past, totally genuine one, and maybe that was only Rolf assumption or maybe is it a case that Ronnie didn't want to disclose anything private and just found that way out ... we'll never know.

As for being "unprofessional", I would need to know the exact nature of the reasons before expressing that judgement.
In the past John Higgins has made it clear he would withdraw from tournaments if his child was to be born or when he was to be at a relative wedding. Was that unprofessional? I can't remember people saying anything of the like. Would you have branded Hendry unprofessional had he pulled out of the WC in 2003 when his 6 months pregnant wife lost her baby? (http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topst ... 2423560.jp)
It's all about personal priorities as Noel wrote. Hendry admitted that he only saw his first son once in the kid's first weeks of life because of his professional commitments. (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... n14455666/) maybe he is indeed that "professional", he would sacrifice his family... Well that would be very wrong in my eyes. And before writing that this is how it should be ask yourself what you would do...

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Casey

Monique Stephen was already out of the tournament when his wife miscarried, in fact he was only home a few hours after exiting when it happened. So he didn’t need to pull out. However I am not sure why you are comparing a death to this situation.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby SnookerFan

Monique wrote:The back story was reported by Rolf Kalb on the German Eurosport forum but we haven't seen anything official on WPBSA site or on ROS site. I'm afraid we will never know what exactly the situation was there. Except that someting unexpected must have happened because only the day before Ronnie had asked for his match with Jimmy Robertson to be scheduled earlier if Jimmy agreed. Why bother to do that if he didn't intend to come anyway? Ronnie has suffered from back problems in the past, totally genuine one, and maybe that was only Rolf assumption or maybe is it a case that Ronnie didn't want to disclose anything private and just found that way out ... we'll never know.

As for being "unprofessional", I would need to know the exact nature of the reasons before expressing that judgement.
In the past John Higgins has made it clear he would withdraw from tournaments if his child was to be born or when he was to be at a relative wedding. Was that unprofessional? I can't remember people saying anything of the like. Would you have branded Hendry unprofessional had he pulled out of the WC in 2003 when his 6 months pregnant wife lost her baby? (http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topst ... 2423560.jp)
It's all about personal priorities as Noel wrote. Hendry admitted that he only saw his first son once in the kid's first weeks of life because of his professional commitments. (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... n14455666/) maybe he is indeed that "professional", he would sacrifice his family... Well that would be very wrong in my eyes. And before writing that this is how it should be ask yourself what you would do...


I was referring more to World Snooker being unprofessional for announcing the reasons he had withdrawn, despite them being bogus.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby SnookerFan

case_master wrote:Monique Stephen was already out of the tournament when his wife miscarried, in fact he was only home a few hours after exiting when it happened. So he didn’t need to pull out. However I am not sure why you are comparing a death to this situation.


She's not.

Higgins wife was heavily pregnant to the point of expecting any day now on two of the occasions he has appeared in World Finals. Higgins said in interviews that his family came first and if she went into labour, he'd be at the hospital by her side, even if he was playing The Crucible Final.

Few would say this was poor decision making. Or unprofessional. She's right. We don't know the full extent of Ronnie's decisions to pull out. My only minor disagreement wit her is that it happens rather often with Ronnie, more then it does with anybody else.

But she clearly isn't bring death into the conversation.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Casey

SnookerFan wrote:
case_master wrote:Monique Stephen was already out of the tournament when his wife miscarried, in fact he was only home a few hours after exiting when it happened. So he didn’t need to pull out. However I am not sure why you are comparing a death to this situation.


She's not.

Higgins wife was heavily pregnant to the point of expecting any day now on two of the occasions he has appeared in World Finals. Higgins said in interviews that his family came first and if she went into labour, he'd be at the hospital by her side, even if he was playing The Crucible Final.

Few would say this was poor decision making. Or unprofessional. She's right. We don't know the full extent of Ronnie's decisions to pull out. My only minor disagreement wit her is that it happens rather often with Ronnie, more then it does with anybody else.

But she clearly isn't bring death into the conversation.


I was referring to the article posed about what happened to Stephen and his wife in 03. Not many people know about it because its not used as an excuse for poor form that followed.

Anyway I stated earlier that I hope Ronnies family is ok, if something is wrong then he is right to pull out. HOWEVER in the past he has pulled out for fake reasons and that is why he will receive some criticism over this. Boy that cried wolf and all

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Wildey

monique

Ronnie wasn't unprofessional he did what he had to do for whatever reasons could be a excuse could be genuine nobody knows because he is not saying that's his right but forums will be making their own minds up on that nothing can be done to stop that.

however putting a wrong story on a website then taking it off causing confusion for everyone was unprofessional in the extream from World Snooker.com

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby randam05

Anyway your right, lets see what the reason is. Isn’t it all a bit strange though, the notice was taken down from the website and then no mention of it during the league. Although I thought Clive was pushing on something when he talked about how the only title Ronnie had was the Shanghai and it was next week…..then nothing, they must have been told not to talk about it.


It is strange, and if it was because of family why would he make sure it wasnt talked about by any commentators? To be honest I reckon he just cant be bothered, but if it is what he says and he needs to spend time with family then I am sorry and understand..but hes had all summer? one week cant hurt? and it wouldnt even be a week the way he sometimes plays abroad.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Monique

I know Stephen was already out. I just quote this as an example of a private situation that, would it happen during or just before a tournament, would be certainly a case to withdraw.
Now let me put a few things straight.
To my knowlege Ronnie has pulled out of tournaments on the following occasions
1998 UK Championship: pulled out with a diagnosed major depression; there was never any doubt about the reality of the illnes.
2005 China: this is the one where clearly he pulled out because he didn't want to go and resort to excuses.
2007 Shanghai Masters: pulled out with back injury and despite anyone wants to believe, I know this one was genuine.
2008 Bahrain: pulled out being "mentally run down". How serious this was I can't say. I only can say this: I had seen him the week before in PL, and so did Janie Watkins and he was clearly not right. Extremely unstable psychologically.
2010 Shanghai (+EPTC1): private family reasons. We have no ground to believe it's only excuses ... and we don't know the nature of the problem. But Ronnie is entitled privacy and would probably not want his private life discussed publicly. Hence the rather "vague" statement.
Last edited by Monique on 03 Sep 2010, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Casey

Ah I see my misunderstanding, sorry.

With regards to pulling out of tournaments, he has twice pulled out of Malta.

He mentioned in his statement that he ‘has a young family’, so hopefully all is well with his children.

In time I am sure it will come to light as to why he’s pulled out.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Monique

case_master wrote:Ah I see my misunderstanding, sorry.

With regards to pulling out of tournaments, he has twice pulled out of Malta.

He mentioned in his statement that he ‘has a young family’, so hopefully all is well with his children.

In time I am sure it will come to light as to why he’s pulled out.


You are right. He pulled out of Malta, once, or rather he did not enter. He had committed to a Pool tournament before Malta was added to the calendar.
The second time he did not enter Malta, the tournament wasn't ranking and so it was by no way mandatory.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Wildey

i know with bi polar you do have a overbearing need to stay home and flying to china is a long long flight away and possibly he could not face that at the moment however he did look happy enough yesterday.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Roland

He didn't look that thrilled to being inteviewed by Andy Goldstein if you ask me. Anyway, all bases have been covered reading this topic. Good stuff <ok>

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby SnookerFan

Sonny wrote:He didn't look that thrilled to being inteviewed by Andy Goldstein if you ask me. Anyway, all bases have been covered reading this topic. Good stuff <ok>


No, but that's reasonable. <laugh>

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Wildey

Where is Mark Johnston Allen he used to present PL Matches before the shot clock...Andy is useless and he pisses players off.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Noel

Sonny wrote: He didn't look that thrilled to being inteviewed by Andy Goldstein if you ask me.


Important to note that Sonny.
There was a real tension there that made me think if someone said "Shanghai" someone might get "Hurricaned".
I think Ron is too honest or maybe just incapable of hiding himself or his feelings either in what he does or does not do or say or not say. In that way he is more honestly "himself" than many of us are willing or able to be and I appreciate that makes people feel uncomfortable, especially the fools he does not suffer glady [ as they say ].

Speaking of "fools"...

People who selfishly expect that "their" Stars, Heroes, Gods, Figureheads, etc. owe them anything are not just fools, they act like foolish children in a sweetshop, denied.
In this case O'Sullivan wasn't put here or developed here on earth for "my" pleasure and entertainment alone.
He has shared his unique gifts with me, with us all, for all kinds of personal reasons. His reasons.
For that I feel damned lucky and so appreciative. If he chooses not to do that for personal reasons, whatever they may be, how can I fail to understand that... I am not a child, I am an adult.

No one can fault O'Sullivan on his unique talents, on his Gods of Snooker accomplishments, on his commitment to the sport we all love. He has earned and added an essential value to Snooker. That old "No one's bigger than the sport itself" sounds a little dated, out of touch and wishful when considering the real impact of players like Tiger Woods and Ronnie O'Sullivan.
ROS had contributed so much already and has so much more he can accomplish before he retires to grow tomato plants... and that day will be coming too soon...is it too much in return to give the man some "space" when needed?


Image
=o\

Noel

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Roland

I like Goldstein actually. He is the sort of presenter who brings players personalities out so I imagine he's the sort of person Hearn will be looking to help where he can.

John McDonald who MC's is the one that gets on my nerves. I saw a feature on him once. What a thick lady part.

Re: Ronnie withdraws from Shanghai

Postby Roland

Yep, agree with those sentiments Noel :santa:


One thing I don't agree with though is any notion that snooker can't live on without him. That is the sort of thing that gets on my nerves to be honest with you.


   

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