Mark Jones

just started reading and i was stopped in my tracks

World Snooker Academy

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you really cant make it up

interesting thoughts from mark ..

one question id like to ask him regarding woman's snooker....wouldn't it be better to get more girls playing snooker if it was seeing as a SPORT for all Rather than mens Game v Woman's Game ?

you got 2 talented 12 year Olds one a boy other a Girl if their Goal was the same whats to stop both being crucible World Champions.

SnookerFan wrote:

Wild wrote:interesting thoughts from mark ..

one question id like to ask him regarding woman's snooker....wouldn't it be better to get more girls playing snooker if it was seeing as a SPORT for all Rather than mens Game v Woman's Game ?

you got 2 talented 12 year Olds one a boy other a Girl if their Goal was the same whats to stop both being crucible World Champions.

Totally agree.

I was particularly appalled by this quote.

"There are still the old dinosaurs out there who don’t like ladies, don’t want to watch them, don’t want them in their club and on their tables. They are slowly being pushed out but ladies have still got a long way to go."


bucking disgrace!

isnt it just treating boys and girls differently got no time for that rubbish myself its 2011 lets move with the times

i bet Rory and his muslim mates are very much those dinosaurs but in the name of religion its ok

Wild wrote:interesting thoughts from mark ..

one question id like to ask him regarding woman's snooker....wouldn't it be better to get more girls playing snooker if it was seeing as a SPORT for all Rather than mens Game v Woman's Game ?

It would be better to get more females playing the game and be able to establish an organisation which could bring through players to compete against each other and inspire each other to improve. Role models are very thin on the ground in the ladies game cerainly in the UK. I personally dont think that there will ever be a day when the amount of ladies playing globally will be of a sufficient quantity to match the numbers of male players. There are many reasons for this which I am too tired to go into now but because of this the ability level of the ladies is and will continue to be significantly less overall than the men apart from the few that at the top that can compete at amateur level with only Reanne at the moment with a realistic chance of getting on tour in the next couple of years through Q School. Ideally I would like men and women to compete together but the reality is that if we don't have a seperate organisation and provide opportunitues for women to playand be comfortable then we risk reduced opportunities for potential future generations of female snooker players of taking up the game.

I see alot of females playing pool and snooker in my local club. I see them bringing younger girls in to practice. It is a small start but a necessary one. I need to run some local ladies tournaments through which I can publicise the national tournaments for women and then hopefully there will be more uptake. This needs to be done in every snooker club, not a small task to achieve.

Hannah, if not for the WLBSA, would be playing once a week at the junior snooker club. The WLBSA gave her the opportunities to play in ranking events through which she needed to practice to improve which gave her confidence which made her seek better players in the lads tournaments which made her want to improve through practice etc etc.

Wild wrote:you got 2 talented 12 year Olds one a boy other a Girl if their Goal was the same whats to stop both being crucible World Champions.

Shouldn't be anything to stop them but there are so many reasons why not every male snooker player, however talented they may be percieved to be or how much they want to be World Champion, makes it as a professional let alone crucible World Champion. In the same way that girls, however talented, may not reach the heights that people assumethey will. There are so many reasons through coaching, social and economic obstructions, interest, opportunities, perception of the game, relationships and support which can change through a young persons life and make them change their goals. It takes a unique person and a unique set of opportunities and support to even get to the heights of their chosen sport. Hopefully one day there will be a serious female challenger to the men but think of it this way, if there is there will only be 1 or 2 females that is how hard it is going to be and going back to your previous question that alone makes seperating the men from the women as a sensible option.

By the way I so unbelievably tired from today so I will review my answer tomorrow and may edit it into something coherent. :)

SnookerFan wrote:

Wild wrote:interesting thoughts from mark ..

one question id like to ask him regarding woman's snooker....wouldn't it be better to get more girls playing snooker if it was seeing as a SPORT for all Rather than mens Game v Woman's Game ?

you got 2 talented 12 year Olds one a boy other a Girl if their Goal was the same whats to stop both being crucible World Champions.

Totally agree.

I was particularly appalled by this quote.

"There are still the old dinosaurs out there who don’t like ladies, don’t want to watch them, don’t want them in their club and on their tables. They are slowly being pushed out but ladies have still got a long way to go."


bucking disgrace!

It happens less and less. Where we are Hannah has been accepted although at 9 she was subjected to a personal attack about her during a Billiards match by a chap who lost to her in the quarter finals. He said women and kids shouldnt be playing in billiards tournaments, he likened it to women playing golf and being slow.(The funny thing about this was that Hannah was twice as fast as him and kicked his bottom - wish he could play Ellie now at golf because she flys around a course). This was the plate event. She went on to win it getting full respect from the other male players including some very good billiards players. The chap who kicked off was escorted out of the building and he was ridiculed at his local club because his actions were reported in a local paper. He has since changed his opinion and made friends with Hannah.

Not sure what other areas will be like but I reckon there are more liberal areas and some less tolerant areas. Such is life I'm afraid.

Good story about the bloke who lost to her and appearing in the local paper

It's a tough one about women getting on tour because right now it's so competitive and you've got to be exceptional as a male player to make it onto tour let alone a female. It will be some achievement if Reanne gets her place by rights.

True but hitting a purple patch and having the draw going your way makes it more of a possibility in a Q School event than say a year long ranking series, so fingers crossed for her and if not Hannah should be battle ready then. :)

My point regarding the mens game v womans game wasent to get rid of the woman's division to the contrary but if young girls don't see the womans game as the pinnacle and strive to where John Higgins is...

reading what you said

"There’s no money in the ladies game. If that changed I think that would see more of an insurgence of Chinese ladies."

but if thoes young girls in china don't see it as "the ladies game" but as "Playing professional snooker" on a par with young boys would that be more encouraging then more girls might see it as a occupation to make a living from.

markj147 wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:

Wild wrote:interesting thoughts from mark ..

one question id like to ask him regarding woman's snooker....wouldn't it be better to get more girls playing snooker if it was seeing as a SPORT for all Rather than mens Game v Woman's Game ?

you got 2 talented 12 year Olds one a boy other a Girl if their Goal was the same whats to stop both being crucible World Champions.

Totally agree.

I was particularly appalled by this quote.

"There are still the old dinosaurs out there who don’t like ladies, don’t want to watch them, don’t want them in their club and on their tables. They are slowly being pushed out but ladies have still got a long way to go."


bucking disgrace!

It happens less and less. Where we are Hannah has been accepted although at 9 she was subjected to a personal attack about her during a Billiards match by a chap who lost to her in the quarter finals. He said women and kids shouldnt be playing in billiards tournaments, he likened it to women playing golf and being slow.(The funny thing about this was that Hannah was twice as fast as him and kicked his bottom - wish he could play Ellie now at golf because she flys around a course). This was the plate event. She went on to win it getting full respect from the other male players including some very good billiards players. The chap who kicked off was escorted out of the building and he was ridiculed at his local club because his actions were reported in a local paper. He has since changed his opinion and made friends with Hannah.

Not sure what other areas will be like but I reckon there are more liberal areas and some less tolerant areas. Such is life I'm afraid.

as a kid in the early 80s in North Wales i could not get near a Snooker Table until i was 17. During Family Holidays i could go in to snooker clubs at 12 or 13 but even that i could get in to clubs you could sense the natives getting restless having kids on their patch.

Just skimmed throught this and saw the issue of sexism etc being raised above.

My thoughts are that positive discrimination is just as bad as discrimination.

And another thing i think, if the women truly want to compete with the men, then they should do away with the Ladies Snooker Association (WLSBA or whatever its called) as playing each other is just holding the women back plus its actually discriminatory against males. If woman (Reanne Evans) can play on the mens main tour last season, then why cant a male play on the womens tour?

If theres to be true equality then there shouldnt be any need for a womens organsation.

Wild wrote:

markj147 wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:

Wild wrote:interesting thoughts from mark ..

one question id like to ask him regarding woman's snooker....wouldn't it be better to get more girls playing snooker if it was seeing as a SPORT for all Rather than mens Game v Woman's Game ?

you got 2 talented 12 year Olds one a boy other a Girl if their Goal was the same whats to stop both being crucible World Champions.

Totally agree.

I was particularly appalled by this quote.

"There are still the old dinosaurs out there who don’t like ladies, don’t want to watch them, don’t want them in their club and on their tables. They are slowly being pushed out but ladies have still got a long way to go."


bucking disgrace!

It happens less and less. Where we are Hannah has been accepted although at 9 she was subjected to a personal attack about her during a Billiards match by a chap who lost to her in the quarter finals. He said women and kids shouldnt be playing in billiards tournaments, he likened it to women playing golf and being slow.(The funny thing about this was that Hannah was twice as fast as him and kicked his bottom - wish he could play Ellie now at golf because she flys around a course). This was the plate event. She went on to win it getting full respect from the other male players including some very good billiards players. The chap who kicked off was escorted out of the building and he was ridiculed at his local club because his actions were reported in a local paper. He has since changed his opinion and made friends with Hannah.

Not sure what other areas will be like but I reckon there are more liberal areas and some less tolerant areas. Such is life I'm afraid.

as a kid in the early 80s in North Wales i could not get near a Snooker Table until i was 17. During Family Holidays i could go in to snooker clubs at 12 or 13 but even that i could get in to clubs you could sense the natives getting restless having kids on their patch.

to be fair id say about 30% of the kids i ever encounter in clubs are a disgrace and make noise, end up getting bored playing cos its that hard and just carry on. Fucken endless, a few times ive been close to rattling my cue over there heads, Last thing your needing when your playing a game for 3 or 4hundred quid and theres a couple of these pre-pubescent parasites partaking in nonsense a few feet away.

Not sure her proposal to him would have been appropriate...lol

Witz78 wrote:Just skimmed throught this and saw the issue of sexism etc being raised above.

My thoughts are that positive discrimination is just as bad as discrimination.

And another thing i think, if the women truly want to compete with the men, then they should do away with the Ladies Snooker Association (WLSBA or whatever its called) as playing each other is just holding the women back plus its actually discriminatory against males. If woman (Reanne Evans) can play on the mens main tour last season, then why cant a male play on the womens tour?

If theres to be true equality then there shouldnt be any need for a womens organsation.

Agreed. There are men only events and women only events at the moment and events that both sexes can play. The tour you talk about isnt a men only tour it is just full of male players. I wonder though how many women "truly want to compete with the men". I am sure that most are happy to play at a lower level against fellow women. There are some though that want to improve and compete at the highest level that they can achieve.

As far as these few are concerned and I can speak for Hannah and Reanne. They don't care about who they are playing they just want to play at the highest level that they can play against players who will test them. For Reanne this is at professional level and for Hannah this is in EASB junior tournaments with an aim to get onto the premier tour and eventually try to get into the professional circuit in a few years. Playing in the ladies game either in the WLBSA or IBSF events give them opportunities to win titles and play against women from other countries and is just another way of competing. Although truthfully the standard from may is very poor against competing on say the EASB tours/ Q School etc and does impact on their natural game.

In essence I dont think that the male/female distinction should be banded about. Men wouldnt play in the ladies competitions because it is for the women. Women dont play in the mens comps because they are specifically for the men. All other competitions are for both men and women. There are just more men playing than women at the higher levels that is all.

I for one applaud - and not because of Hannah but the years I have spent observing ladies snooker - those that try to better themselves and compete in arenas where they are clearly out of their depth and up against far greater competition because that is the only way to improve.

As an example of men only events:

World Under 21 Mens
World Champs Mens- IBSF
World Champs Masters - IBSF
European Mens - EBSA
European Masters - EBSA

Ladies only event:

World Champs Ladies - IBSF
WLBSA events
European Ladies - EBSA

I will have missed some but there are events for both sexes. I think people are stuck up on the idea that the professional game is men only. There is no professional ladies game.

mark as someone thats involved in the womans game/grass roots why hasent the likes of Maria Catalano entered any PTC .....

there is no quick solution for improvement you have to play better players to achieve that and it does seem on the face of it most women don't want to take that step.

there are male players that has entered PTC that probably nowhere near Maria standard of play but they still entered same could be said of Pink Ribbon how many girls was there ? Reanne and Hannah was anyone else ?

There was two other ladies there in the Pink Ribbon, Marianne Williams and Vicky Gibbs.

There do seem to be a few women entered for PTC4, but would be nice to see a few more having a crack at it.

Wild wrote:mark as someone thats involved in the womans game/grass roots why hasent the likes of Maria Catalano entered any PTC .....

there is no quick solution for improvement you have to play better players to achieve that and it does seem on the face of it most women don't want to take that step.

there are male players that has entered PTC that probably nowhere near Maria standard of play but they still entered same could be said of Pink Ribbon how many girls was there ? Reanne and Hannah was anyone else ?

Maria struggles because she works for her father and his business means she is literally unable to practice from April to September as she works from 7 in the morning until gone 9 at night and she would need extra funding to enter the events. Her work schedule means that she cannot plan ahead for anything until the season has gotten underway.

Monique got it spot on Marianne and Vicky played in the Pink Ribbion neither player, including Hannah, are of Maria or Reanne standard but they turned up for the experience and gave it everything they had... Kudos to them. :)

roy142857 wrote:There do seem to be a few women entered for PTC4, but would be nice to see a few more having a crack at it.

Agreed. The more the merrier. Hannah could be getting a go at one this season for the experience and again to show her exactly what she needs to do to up her game to even start to compete with the players.

yes it is tough with work/family commitments plus funding

Wild wrote:My point regarding the mens game v womans game wasent to get rid of the woman's division to the contrary but if young girls don't see the womans game as the pinnacle and strive to where John Higgins is...

reading what you said

"There’s no money in the ladies game. If that changed I think that would see more of an insurgence of Chinese ladies."

but if thoes young girls in china don't see it as "the ladies game" but as "Playing professional snooker" on a par with young boys would that be more encouraging then more girls might see it as a occupation to make a living from.

Being sexist here I believe that the uptake of sports participation is usually led by the ruling government in some countries and they would provide more opportunities at grass roots for women to play if there was a return to the country through publicity and remuneration.

I am not sure either how far culture has a say in the uptake of snooker. From what I see of the Hong Kong girls. They are dedicated and driven to improve and succeed but from what I gather speaking to them they have to pursue accolades in their sport in order to keep being supported. So winning gold medals at the Asian games accounts for far more than trying to get onto the professional tour. As the disciplines are played in own sex groups then the female players are pushed into competing and beating their peers and not pursuing improvements to compete at the mens level. At least that is my take on it.

I will say though that the coaching techniques and structure that they employ over there has improved their ability in the short time that I have seen them play and if they could play in every ladies tournament, they would be in the top 8 as would a few of the European ladies with Reanne still at the top of the tree though.

Most of the UK ladies are a bit complacent because it is more like a private club over here but they get a shock when the overseas players come across, as they did at the World Champs this year. Has this inspired them and forced them to practice more to improve. Not sure but at the next World Championships they will have had a year to try and get better so the results should speak for themselves.

looking back over the years Alison Fisher is only 43 now how great would it have been for womans snooker if you had Alison Fisher,Kelly Fisher,Karen Corr,Stacy Hilliard and Reanne playing in the same era they could have pushed each other on and in turn encourage more to take it up.

its all about competition and something to strive for

Spot on. It is a shame, however the plus side is that Hannah has to compete with players that have a more attacking style (lads) so she is learning how to play the game in a better manner from an earlier age but she has lost the role models and female competition which could have pushed the likes of Reanne further because every event seems like a certainty now but with the older players in the mix it would have been more exciting. :)

markj147 wrote:Spot on. It is a shame, however the plus side is that Hannah has to compete with players that have a more attacking style (lads) so she is learning how to play the game in a better manner from an earlier age but she has lost the role models and female competition which could have pushed the likes of Reanne further because every event seems like a certainty now but with the older players in the mix it would have been more exciting. :)

absolutely every woman/girl that can do it either with time,financially or a good dad should go for it..

im a total believer a girl can cut it sooner rather than later....personally i thought reanne was more competitive during Q School than she was in last season PTC Playing roughly the same players don't know how she feels about that.

Very good interview yet again Sonny.
It sounds very much that the infrastructure of the ladies game is in a total mess, much like the Scottish Junior Scene when I started getting involved with Graeme. It took a lot of hard work to get that into a creditable working system. Some of the people responsible for turning it around have never been given any credit whatsoever, not that they did it for plaudits but it would have been nice for them to have been recognised.
To Hannah's Dad, You seem to be on the right track and I hear you when you watch her and she's not playing as she should, it's frustrating but it's important that she not know it's frustrating you. It will only make things worse, believe me lol. I watched the video's of her and was impressed. I may be wrong but she looks as if she has a small sighting problem, with a tendency to cue to the right. Maybe not though as it's hard to tell on the video's.
Keep up the good work.

thanks for the comments. interestingly she has been cueing to the left but has fixed it over the weekend. :)

I try to hide my frustration but early on it was so difficult. Then I step back and think, what have I achieved, and it calms me down.

When she turned her back, you shoulda filed his tip to a slight angle towards the right haha